Turbo on 2000 Limited 5.0

Well guys, I don't even have it yet and I'm looking at going turbo.

I think I'll be going STS style with the turbo underneath the the body. I'm hoping I can find room somewhere closer to the front to mount it. If not, I may just go classic style and cut the muffler out and install the turbo in its place.

Tim was kind enough to point me at a turbo for sale locally. I'm checking it out now. I sent the specs to James Henson to see what his thoughts are.

Here's the specs:
t4 F1-68 turbine .68 a/r housing 3" exhaust outlet with a 72mm compressor blade 4inch inlet, 2.5 inch outlet, journal bearing. Also, see compressor map attached. I have a vague understanding, and that concerns me.

Now, the next issue is oil routing.
Oil in to the turbo would be handled from a T off the oil pressure sending unit on the block. Return oil would need a scavenge pump to the top of the oil pan, or in the timing chain cover. The scavenge pump adds quite a bit of cost to the setup. I think saving a few bucks in this area would spell disaster. So, this seems to be the best pump out there:
http://turbowerx.com/Scavenge_Pumps/Exa-Pump/Exa-Pump.html
Stainless steel oil lines will have to be used. As I read about under cab mounted turbo's oil issues seem to be a huge issue. This is going to require careful thought and routing.

My real issue is routing the air filter and compressed air up to the engine bay.
The frame rails will be the the way. I saw one guy notched out his frame for the plumbing and re-enforced the frame by welding metal around the plumbing line (3 inch or 4 inch hole). I'm concerned about running the two pipes and think this will be the biggest challenge. I really don't want that air filter under the truck.
See what this guy did on his ranger?


As for Maf? Pro-M all the way, in a blow thru design.

Fuel pump, injectors, sct go without saying. I'll be having James put together a care package for me along with the Pro-M.
Aeromotive Stealth 340 pump
Bosch uscar (EV6) 60lb injectors part # 108191

I'll recycle my boost gauge and wide band o2 from my supercharged 4.0 ohv.

I'll be using stainless steel for everything under the truck as rust always seems to be an issue.

Also. intercooling. I learned from my last project that cool intake air is incredibly important. People say on under cabin turbo's you don't really need it as the compressed air cools on the way up. Not good enough for me. Im going to go air/water so I have flexibility as to where I mount the intercooler. This could change, but intercooling of some form is a must.

My eye's are watering at what this is going to cost.

I see 02Limited turbo'd his, but he must have had quite a few issues and fell off the forum.

Not much info on guys completing something like this to be found. All input appreciated.

This will be a long process.

 

[4pointslow]

Head

I had (have) the factory gt40p iron heads ported with oversized valves.

cast iron? It is rare for them to crack. Maybe it is something else.
Once I did a set of head gaskets on a dodge mini van and it all seemed ok when it was done. Road tested it and everything. The next morning I started it up and while smoke out the tail pipe. I was like WTF?

I pulled the front head back off and found a piece of glass on top of the headgasket between a coolant passage and the combustion ring. I looked up at the hood and the hood light was broken. The bulb had a hole broke in it and had some more glass still sitting inside the broken bulb.

If you go with a different set of heads, pay attention to the cc of the chamber since that will effect the compression ratio. Also the runner volume sizes, larger ones will flow more and you know the whole thing about more air in and out.

 

[Dono]

Yea, I won't jump to huge conclusions till I get it apart.
I'm not going to rule out the fact that I make mistakes sometimes.

The gt40p heads (at least mine, anyway) have a intake runner size of 145cc and a combustion chamber size of just under 60cc. The cam is, of course, designed around this. I don't think it would be wise to go with 185cc intake runners and stick with the same cam. I'd have to get opinions on this from guys that do this stuff for a living.

I still don't know what was going on with this detonation issue. Tough to know for sure if it was fixed, but the cps code didn't come back on this last go round.

I'll make more decisions on what to do in the next month. Converting to aluminum heads have the added cost of new rockers (Non pedestal mount) and probably push rods. The conversion cost would be higher than I'd like, for sure.

 

[4pointslow]

I was looking at 225 cc. lol.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-5171t010-c01/overview/make/ford

Cams are not that expensive compared to heads.
You got your cam made around your heads, if you have to get new heads anyway you should go with something that will add MORE POWER. lol.

Or just get another set of GT40P heads.

Or maybe you will find it is not the heads and it might be something simpler to fix. Is your torque wrench a good quality one?

 

[vroomzoomboom]

maybe the gasket failed. lets hope on that. then you dont have to dig into the wallet. i had called a friend that has a f250 with the gasket eating 6L in it, and BOTH times the gaskets went, it did the same thing as dons truck did. so again, lets hope its only a bad gasket.
john, i had lent don my snap-on wrench to use. it ranges from 50-220 i believe.

 

[4pointslow]

Cant go wrong with a Snap-on torque wrench.

Here is another set of heads, these have the highest flow rating with the criteria I entered in Summit. (2000, Ford, 302, assembled, Trickflow).

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-5171t016-c02/overview/make/ford

 

[2000StreetRod]

when boost?

. . . I still don't know what was going on with this detonation issue. . .

At what engine speed do you start seeing boost and when is it max? Does your tune timing retard correlate with your boost curve (more boost = less advance)?

 

[Dono]

Iv'e been using Tim's snap-on torque wrench.

If I'm going with a complete re-design of the motor I may have to look at a new cam. Low end torque and mileage is still important..its my dd.

oops. Tim beat me to most of this.

 

[Dono]

At what engine speed do you start seeing boost and when is it max? Does your tune timing retard correlate with your boost curve (more boost = less advance)?

Yes, the tune was designed for less timing as boost goes up. I end up with 14 degree's timing under max boost (7 to 8lbs is where I set the max boost at).
It gets more complicated as I don't see max boost in first gear.

4pointslow - the pricing is about right for the heads. I'd go with 58cc chamber size for 9.6:1 compression (motor designed for that) and intake runner size of unknown volume yet.

Lets see what is going on with my motor. I'll get Tim to hang out with me when I take it apart. Maybe we will see that I did something clearly wrong (at this point I hope so).

 

[4pointslow]

Engine

When are you guys going to swap Tim's 5.0 in there?
Or did you start already?

 

[Dono]

This coming weekend will be the swap.

I pulled the rad today. I filtered the coolant as it came out to get the oil out of it.
I'd like to re-use some coolant that gets swapped out every few weeks.

Thru the week I'll spend a few minutes at it when I can, then we will do the swap on the weekend. I'm back in to working weekend nights so that cuts in to my time and energy big time.

 

[ahodges]

FYI, any aluminum head I've seen so far will require modification of the head or headers when used with the Torque Monsters. Tim with his TFS and I had the same problem with my AFR's. My AFR heads work well with the TM headers as far as fitment. Mine were made for the P-heads. Don, you could always lower compression to reduce the risk of detonation too.

 

[Dono]

Andrew, I did think of spending time polishing the combustion chambers. This alone would lower the compression.

If I figure out the where the issue is, and its fixable without heads, I might just do the polishing.

 

[Dono]

Ok, I re-checked my compression ratio math. Solid 9.6, assuming the chamber volume is 58cc. Im betting the volume is closer to 60cc in reality.

That gives me 9.4:1 Should be ok.
Mike From Thumper performance says he has had great success with these heads on a few builds:
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Flo-Tek-203505-Small-Block-Ford-Aluminum-Cylinder-Head,46332.html
The price is definitely right.

I'm getting ahead of myself, but research never hurts.

 

[CDW6212R]

Ok, I re-checked my compression ratio math. Solid 9.6, assuming the chamber volume is 58cc. Im betting the volume is closer to 60cc in reality.

That gives me 9.4:1 Should be ok.
Mike From Thumper performance says he has had great success with these heads on a few builds:
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Flo-Tek-203505-Small-Block-Ford-Aluminum-Cylinder-Head,46332.html
The price is definitely right.

I'm getting ahead of myself, but research never hurts.

Check the block over carefully too for cracks, that would be the worst case, but an odd coolant leak, that made me think of it.


BTW, I got the heads for my 306 build from Mike, they are those Flotek copies of a GT40X head. He had ported them fully when some customer backed out or something. So he offered them on SBFtech, and I got them since I hadn't run into any used TFS heads.

I could be talked out of them, I consulted with Ed Curtis for a custom cam and what he'd want for the springs. He gave me the spring kit he required, and I had Mike/Thumper buy it and swap the parts in. The kit was $280 I think, with all retainers/keepers/seals etc. The parts that come with those heads are not compatible with the desired springs the big cam guys want.

 

[Dono]

Motor came out today, and after careful diagnosis we knew the cylinders that had the issue.
We used a leak down tester, but we filled the block with water and just blew 120psi in to each cylinder (rocker arms off, so we knew the valves were closed). When the rad hose had bubbles coming out of it, we knew that that cylinder was an issue.

We weren't completely sure about the heads since once some emery cloth was taken to them, they suddenly didn't look very smooth. We decided they were ok, and the motor wen't back together.

I did go with a higher performance head gasket this time, but didn't step up to the mls gaskets. For those, I'd have to for sure get the heads re-finished.

The head gaskets were on correctly, and proper torque. The time we also used arp moly when re-torquing and I'm sure the emery cloth was a good idea. I had not done that on the last head prep, although I cleaned the surfaces thoroughly.

I really hope the extra prep work, and the different head gaskets do the job. I bar-tend tonight, but Tim is optimistic that we just might have the motor running tomorrow night. We will see when I can drag my tired ass out of bed tomorrow.

Thanks again Tim (For what seems to be the thousandth time).

 

[4pointslow]

Gaskets

Good luck guys, I hope it all goes well and you are up and running soon!
Great job on leakdown testing the cylinders to see which ones were leaking.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

i dont think its really all that impossible to have it running late tomorrow as long as we dont have any problems lining it up (its has put up a fight a few times). the funny thing with dons truck is it sits just high enough for me to lay under it comfortable enough with the tires on to do everything under it, while dons buttoning everything up top. if we start around noon i think we can have it running sometime around 8-10 at night.

 

[Dono]

Well, motor is in and so far so good.
I havn't test drove yet, but it starts and runs. No bubbles in the overflow tank.
Hoods on, and the oil is changed. I'll maybe go for a drive tomorrow and change the oil right away again.
I turned the boost down for now, as I'm not prepared to risk detonation again.

Tim has far more energy than I do. I was getting a little hot under the collar (yes, it was pretty warm out also) at one point. Tim made a job that I probably would have taken another two weeks at happen in 2 days.

I'm really looking forward to actually driving my Ex for a while.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

yea, right.
don working like a slave

 

[Dono]

So, if the heads Don't hold and I take out another head gasket its aluminum head time.
I do need a mental, and financial break from this. With low boost, ill still enjoy the lead in power, but not the high end pull. As Tim suggested, once I'm done licking my wounds, have the cash aside for aluminum heads and start working the boost. If things go horribly wrong again the cash, time, and energy, are set aside to go aluminum.

I will say, what back yard guys can pull a motor, replace its head gaskets, and have it back in the truck Running in 2 days? I'm not sure if we should be proud of this, but we know the exact order of operations to save time. Step out of sequence once, and your wasting time.