Timing Chain Already???

[MeDiCX]

2013 Explorer Sport w/ 102,000 miles...
Two weeks ago CEL came on and threw a P0016 code (cam position sensor). Cleared it and it came back on today with the same code. Ran it over to my dealership and they are talking $3,500 repair (timing chain, tensioner, phasers, solenoids, etc.). Absolutely no symptoms other than the CEL and code. I'm wondering if it could be something as simple as a cam position sensor. Seems like they were fishing for a cure with no other symptoms present.

 

[blwnsmoke]

I did some Google searching and found on the flex forums that use the same engine. same code and it was the sensors and/or phasers which required a tear down of the top end to get to them.

And I can see why they are saying timing chain. If they are already in there, it should be replaced. General rule is once you hit 100k, it should be done.

 

[reserved50]

yup sounds about right, they go right at 100k usually, the turbo models, F150 etc. Change the water pump at the same time and change coolant. Price might be slightly on the higher side but within range.

 

[peterk9]

I did some Google searching and found on the flex forums that use the same engine. same code and it was the sensors and/or phasers which required a tear down of the top end to get to them.

And I can see why they are saying timing chain. If they are already in there, it should be replaced. General rule is once you hit 100k, it should be done.

Any chance that would that fall under the Power Train warranty?

Peter

 

[sheltonfilms]

Why don't you swap camshaft position sensors? See if the code changes. P0016 is bank 1 sensor A. Bank one is the head toward the rear of the vehicle and sensor A I believe is the intake cam sensor. Swap that with the exhaust cam sensor and see if the code changes to P0017. If it does your problem is a 9 dollar part.


Book time for a timing chain replacement is 10.2 hours. Figure about 100 bucks an hour and you got $1,020. Add a couple more for adding the other stuff while you are there and you got around $1,250 in labor. $2,250 in parts seems high.

 

[reserved50]

yea seems like they quoted for engine removal , plus, plus, since they say its out of warranty...or something fishy there, they would also be charging full list for parts, which they would be allowed to do.

 

[Sixonemale]

Sounds awfully early for a timing chain to begin failing, but as someone pointed out above, perhaps 100,000 miles is par for the course for a turbo engine, not sure. As also mentioned above, if you are going to have this repair done, by all means have your water pump and coolant replaced, in addition to any other inexpensive parts located inside the engine block that are known to fail.

 

[veloduffer]

100K miles is fairly standard (older cars it's about 60k miles). $3500 sounds really high, even considering replacing water pump, pulleys, etc. Typical cost is $900-1500. An independent repair shop will be cheaper, as most of the costs is labor.

 

[Sixonemale]

100K miles is fairly standard (older cars it's about 60k miles). $3500 sounds really high, even considering replacing water pump, pulleys, etc. Typical cost is $900-1500. An independent repair shop will be cheaper, as most of the costs is labor.

Are you referring to a turbo engine when you say "100K miles is fairly standard (older cars it's about 60k miles)" for having the timing chain replaced? My 2002 Explorer ran about 195,000 before it needed the timing chain to be replaced.

Also, is there anything mentioned in the maintenance manual regarding having the timing chain to be replaced at a certain interval for the Explorer Sports or all models with turbos?

 

[thefranchise713]

I'm a little... surprised at this thread. There is a very big difference between a timing chain and timing belt, the latter of which we don't have.

A chain should go the life of the vehicle. I'm pretty sure there is no timing chain interval in the manual.

 

[182RG]

I'm a little... surprised at this thread. There is a very big difference between a timing chain and timing belt, the latter of which we don't have.

A chain should go the life of the vehicle. I'm pretty sure there is no timing chain interval in the manual.

Google 'ecoboost timing chain' and read. Ford has an extensive problem on their hands.

 

[Sixonemale]

Google 'ecoboost timing chain' and read. Ford has an extensive problem on their hands.

Combine this with the internal water pump and either Ford has extensive problems on their hands or the owners do with very labor intensive maintenance that results in very high repair costs for replacing the timing chain or internal water pump - and that's if you catch before it causes catastrophic damage to the engine.

 

[thefranchise713]

That water pump design was absolutely stupid on the 3.5L NA/EB and was a reason I went away from that platform to the 2.3L, although I wasn't going to lose sleep over it either way. (I like to live dangerously?)

As far as the Ecoboost timing chain issues, now I remember. Dunno why it didn't click in my brain before. That said I only remembered it with early F150s and not others on the platform, but yes, you're right, they did have issues.

 

[MikB]

It'd be interesting to find out just what kind of issues, if any, the 3.5L has in regards to the timing chain as a percentage. People will experience problems in this regard but, I doubt it will be in any epidemic capacity. I've had timing chains in overhead cam engines in all my vehicles since '01 with the 4.6L in my Bullitt, the 4.0L in my '07 Ranger the 5 litres in my '11 and '13 Mustangs although those two didn't see much mileage on them. And now, I have the Ex with the 3.5L N/A. I doubt I'll ever get to the point of having a problem in this regard myself as I just don't put the miles on my rigs that I used to.

While it's unfortunate that someone, in this case, MeDicx, is looking at needing to have their timing chain replaced on their Ex at 102K, or so says his dealer, I don't believe this would be the norm on this engine and it's possible that their 'diagnosis' is wrong. Time for a second opinion. I think those repair numbers are totally off the chart, IMO.

As far as the design goes, for myself, I'd have no problem tackling such a job. If the water pump design becomes an issue with these at an unreasonable mileage, I'm sure it would be called out. As it is, the design is not new as these engines have been around for quite a while now. I see no reason you shouldn't get reasonable service out of this engine but, with all engines, there will be a need for repair at some point. As far as the water pump goes, I would expect to get between a 130 and 150k miles out of one with proper service intervals being done. that means having the coolant flushed and serviced within the parameters of the service intervals. These water pumps don't have the burden of having a big fan attached to them as well so, that's is a plus in itself. That eliminates a lot of rotating mass strain off the water pumps bearing. There isn't even another pulley and belt to deal with either. In that respect, I think the design used is fine.

 

[Sixonemale]

It'd be interesting to find out just what kind of issues, if any, the 3.5L has in regards to the timing chain as a percentage. People will experience problems in this regard but, I doubt it will be in any epidemic capacity. I've had timing chains in overhead cam engines in all my vehicles since '01 with the 4.6L in my Bullitt, the 4.0L in my '07 Ranger the 5 litres in my '11 and '13 Mustangs although those two didn't see much mileage on them. And now, I have the Ex with the 3.5L N/A. I doubt I'll ever get to the point of having a problem in this regard myself as I just don't put the miles on my rigs that I used to.

While it's unfortunate that someone, in this case, MeDicx, is looking at needing to have their timing chain replaced on their Ex at 102K, or so says his dealer, I don't believe this would be the norm on this engine and it's possible that their 'diagnosis' is wrong. Time for a second opinion. I think those repair numbers are totally off the chart, IMO.

As far as the design goes, for myself, I'd have no problem tackling such a job. If the water pump design becomes an issue with these at an unreasonable mileage, I'm sure it would be called out. As it is, the design is not new as these engines have been around for quite a while now. I see no reason you shouldn't get reasonable service out of this engine but, with all engines, there will be a need for repair at some point. As far as the water pump goes, I would expect to get between a 130 and 150k miles out of one with proper service intervals being done. that means having the coolant flushed and serviced within the parameters of the service intervals. These water pumps don't have the burden of having a big fan attached to them as well so, that's is a plus in itself. That eliminates a lot of rotating mass strain off the water pumps bearing. There isn't even another pulley and belt to deal with either. In that respect, I think the design used is fine.

I completely agree that the timing chain should last the life of the engine and will probably do so in the 3.5L NA, but this thread from what I read is based on timing chains giving out in the 3.5L turbos.

As far as the water pump goes, there is only one requirement in the maintenance manual if I recall correctly, and that is to change the coolant at 100,000 miles. The only other requirement at various intervals is to inspect the cooling system. I also don't think many owners have a tremendous problem replacing the water pump, albeit very expensive for the 3.5L engines, but the real concern is detecting the water pump going bad before it leaks coolant into the oil and seizes the engine.

 

[morfhious3]

any update on this?my 14 explorer sport just throw the same code yesterday and its only 45000 miles.of course my factory warranty is over.what would be the damage in the long run if you dont get it fixed for now? coz spending 1k right now is out of my budget.or any recall on this?

 

[blwnsmoke]

any update on this?my 14 explorer sport just throw the same code yesterday and its only 45000 miles.of course my factory warranty is over.what would be the damage in the long run if you dont get it fixed for now? coz spending 1k right now is out of my budget.or any recall on this?

How is it over? The motor is covered for 5yr/60,000 miles.

 

[morfhious3]

is it 5yrs/60000 miles?coz i received back in march my warranty expired.so what warranty was that then?thanks for the info.im going to check my warranty info.

 

[peterk9]

is it 5yrs/60000 miles?coz i received back in march my warranty expired.so what warranty was that then?thanks for the info.im going to check my warranty info.

Check the Warranty Guide you should have received with the other documents when you bought the vehicle. (Those pamphlets etc. in the glovebox that very few people read ). The engine falls under the Powertrain Warranty which is 5 years/60k miles.

Peter

 

[morfhious3]

i just talked to the dealer service and they told me if its the sensor its not covered.will be this expensive ?