Vehicle surging with shudder/maybe torque converter clutch?

[willied]

I did the same, just dropped the pan, replaced the filter and like 6 quarts of SP fluid.
That fixed my shutter.
I then replaced the spark plugs for good measure, don't think that helped as much in my case though.

That's good to hear!

 

[PotatoExplorer]

Misses vs Converter unlocking

They sound similar, hence all the overlap in suggestions. I have had all in mine over the last few years. Best way to describe the differences imo:

RPM surge - usually smooth, RPM surges/blips 50-100 rpm higher, then returns to original rpm seems to follow a cycle/rhythm every 5-20 seconds (rhythm gets faster over months). Usually only occurs 35-45mph in a locked gear (4/5/6).
Converter shudder/Rumble noise - sometimes accompanies the surge, sounds like going over rumble strips, gets worse over months. I had my TC replaced @87k, but I sense its coming back now at 107k.
Ignition Miss - sharper shudder, not as cyclical can be a one time event or several in quick succesion, usually occurs in 6th lock under load 40-60mph. Sometimes will be enough to unlock converter. Usually won't set a code, but if you can monitor live data you can see misfires. I had someone w/laptop s/w that could monitor live. Mine was resolved w/plugs [MENTION=71306]77[/MENTION]k. When I had a coil go [MENTION=234733]10[/MENTION]4k, it set a hard misfire code w/engine light.

Pls post how your repair goes. I'm on the verge of going into a dealer to analyze the trans again, i just know it won't be cheap...

I'm so glad I found this thread. I thought I was the only one experiencing this problem!! Going by HWYSTR descriptions - I have the RPM surge and the Converter shudder/Rumble noise. I bought my 2008 4.6 V8 Limited Explorer with about 120,000 miles. It started doing the RPM surge around 120,750-121,000 miles. Then a little after that it started having the converter shudder/rumble noise. I'm up to about 121,400 miles and it was getting worse and worse so I took it into the shop to get a transmission fluid and filter changed. I was hoping this would solve these issues but they continued to happen after I drove away from the shop. I drove it around for a bit, maybe 20 miles and the converter shudder/rumble noise seems to have dissipated, but the rpm surge is still there, just not as strong as before the fluid/filter change.

I see that folks are saying the plugs may be the issue? I'm not feeling any misfires or having any codes. I had a code pop up when I first bought the car followed by the limp mode. I stupidly cleared the code before getting it read, but that hasn't popped back up since that one time.

Anyone have any suggestions for a person with limited mechanical abilities/tools?

 

[0Explorer7]

H

I'm so glad I found this thread. I thought I was the only one experiencing this problem!! Going by HWYSTR descriptions - I have the RPM surge and the Converter shudder/

Hey, I had the same problem in mine, I did a flush at work with SP fluid, and did the reflash, helped a bit, but still shuddered and would shake the whole truck at 45-50mph very light acceleration. I didn't have a check engine light, went on for about a year, engine light came on for misfire and symptom way worse.

Changed out the spark plugs and the symptom is completely gone, truck drives great. BUT - I never had an rpm surge

Yours being an 08, you have the 6r80 transmission which is better than the 6r60 in mine, and honestly has been quite a good tranny.

I'm a licensed ford tech and work at a dealer in Canada, usually when we get an rpm surge it's engine related, typically throttle body or MAF related, or a misfire, but it doesn't always set a code, so don't be surprised that the engine light is not on.

Check the wiring at your MAF sensor and at the throttlebody, they can crack with age and heat, and short out, and if you have access to a scanner it would be ideal to monitor those while it is shuddering, to see if you can capture the concern.

 

[willied]

I'm so glad I found this thread. I thought I was the only one experiencing this problem!! Going by HWYSTR descriptions - I have the RPM surge and the Converter shudder/Rumble noise. I bought my 2008 4.6 V8 Limited Explorer with about 120,000 miles. It started doing the RPM surge around 120,750-121,000 miles. Then a little after that it started having the converter shudder/rumble noise. I'm up to about 121,400 miles and it was getting worse and worse so I took it into the shop to get a transmission fluid and filter changed. I was hoping this would solve these issues but they continued to happen after I drove away from the shop. I drove it around for a bit, maybe 20 miles and the converter shudder/rumble noise seems to have dissipated, but the rpm surge is still there, just not as strong as before the fluid/filter change.

I see that folks are saying the plugs may be the issue? I'm not feeling any misfires or having any codes. I had a code pop up when I first bought the car followed by the limp mode. I stupidly cleared the code before getting it read, but that hasn't popped back up since that one time.

Anyone have any suggestions for a person with limited mechanical abilities/tools?

I would go ahead and do the plugs if they've never been replaced, but it's hard to say whether that will fix it or not.

 

[PotatoExplorer]

I would go ahead and do the plugs if they've never been replaced, but it's hard to say whether that will fix it or not.

I keep seeing folks saying that the plugs can break off in the head, now that's terrifying! I'll have to brush up on some thread reading and YouTube watching.

 

[willied]

I keep seeing folks saying that the plugs can break off in the head, now that's terrifying! I'll have to brush up on some thread reading and YouTube watching.

FordTechMakuloco makes great how-to videos. This one is on a 5.4L, but the same concept applies:

 

[steve6534]

I keep seeing folks saying that the plugs can break off in the head, now that's terrifying! I'll have to brush up on some thread reading and YouTube watching.

The head design was updated I believe in late '07 models to make up for this problem. Take a quick look at your ignition coils and see what color they are. If they're black it's the old design but if they're brown it's the new design that should be no problem to change the plugs.

 

[PotatoExplorer]

I believe you're referring to the rubber boot part that goes down into the spark plug hole? A quick google search showed me this, because the top part of the coil is a black plastic. I'm going to need to find some compressed air to blow all the crap out from around the head before removing the coil.

 

[steve6534]

I believe you're referring to the rubber boot part that goes down into the spark plug hole? A quick google search showed me this, because the top part of the coil is a black plastic. I'm going to need to find some compressed air to blow all the crap out from around the head before removing the coil.

Yeah you're right actually.. It's been a while since I've looked at them.

 

[PotatoExplorer]

I've been looking up how to change the spark plugs, but I can't seem to find a specific torque to tighten the plugs to. I'm seeing a wide range of 12-25ft-lbs.

I hate to derail this thread, but if this will fix my RPM surge issue then maybe it will help some fella like myself in the future.

I found another thread for a sport trac, but they don't list exact torque specs for the plugs.
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums...k-plug-change-4-6l-v8-2007-sport-trac.397333/

And in the video Willied provided, he just says to get it snug and turn it another 1/8th to 1/4 turn.

I also found this: http://www.phila.gov/fleet/Warranty Recalls/tsb08-07-06 FORD.pdf
It's a nice little walkthrough, but it says the engine must be at room temperature... I'll be doing this outside and right now it says it's 14, but feels like 1. Is changing the plugs during the winter bad? Should I wait until spring??

 

[PotatoExplorer]

Mission failed

Ok so to answer some of my own questions that may possibly help folks in the future - Torque specs for spark plugs are actually listed on the box of new plugs. It was a range of like 23-27 ft lbs so I went with 25. Also, changing plugs in the winter can be done, at least I did. I don't necessarily think the engine needs to be at "room temperature." Replacing them are a lot easier than I thought. Just take your time and you'll be golden. Some plugs took over 35 ft lbs of torque to remove, but no issues of separation. The OEM Motorcraft plug gaps are NOT adjustable.

I did find 2 plugs that were caked with crud, 1 being severely rusted around the jam nut/coil boot. I was kind of glad to find these, thinking they were the culprits to my rpm surge problem. I took her for a spin afterwards only to still have the problem. No better, no worse... Ugh. I'm going to try and drive it around a little more today to maybe see if it's just the computer that needs to relearn that spectrum of driving?? I do suspect that I have water leaking down around the coil and into the plug cavity. I've heard about other folks rigging up a makeshift water diverter along the back 2 cylinders, I'll have to look further into this later.

I was doing some more research on this and I think I'm going to try and disconnect the 4x4 fuse. Possible transfer case issues is was i was also finding, but I'm doubtful. All I want for Christmas is for this damn issue to be resolved!!!

 

[PotatoExplorer]

Update - so driving it around a bit more today and the problem seems to be not as bad, but still present. I'm going to also try rotating my tires to see if that does anything... Again, I'm doubtful, but who knows.

 

[willied]

Ahh, I know exactly how you feel when you don't fix the problem like you want to, though it's good to hear it's improved some. Kind of makes you wonder what the heck is going on. At least you know you have fresh plugs now. Best of luck with it!

 

[PotatoExplorer]

Well its been a little while! I've been tied up with getting my Ranger ready for an inspection.

So the other day, the wife was driving the Explorer when it went into limp mode and the orange wrench came on. Sounded very similar to an incident I had around when I first bought it back in September, but hasn't made it since. Had her shut it off and restart the vehicle - cleared the issue and unfortunately cleared the CEL. I was beginning to think that the RPM surge issue could be possibly related to this. I haven't yet removed the 4x4 fuse or rotated the tires yet, but I thought maybe this could be a TPS/dirty throttle body/faulty throttle body motor/dirty MAF sensor issue. I bought a new TPS and some cleaners. I had both bolt heads snap off when I was removing the TPS from the throttle body, even after heating them up with a torch. Long story short - I f-ed the throttle body up pretty bad and decided to go buy a new one at Autozone. Holy hell, the Explorer is way more responsive now. It seemed to have help alleviate a lot of the RPM surge, but unfortunately it is still slightly present.

I was talking to an uncle that is far more mechanically inclined than me and he was saying that this might be simply how these vehicles are designed. I would like the believe that this isn't the case... I can't see an engineer thinking this was OK for mass production.

Does any other 4th gen owner have RPM surging, especially at 35-45mph???

 

[Explorer_PL]

Read my post about an issue I had with my v8 going into a limp mode.

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums...ors-u0101-u1900-solution.438414/#post-3491861

 

[tripplec]

Owner manual says the engine will protect itself as well as tranny if certain things happen. Over heating for one. Its all there.!! Most people don't read the manual.

 

[willied]

Well its been a little while! I've been tied up with getting my Ranger ready for an inspection.

So the other day, the wife was driving the Explorer when it went into limp mode and the orange wrench came on. Sounded very similar to an incident I had around when I first bought it back in September, but hasn't made it since. Had her shut it off and restart the vehicle - cleared the issue and unfortunately cleared the CEL. I was beginning to think that the RPM surge issue could be possibly related to this. I haven't yet removed the 4x4 fuse or rotated the tires yet, but I thought maybe this could be a TPS/dirty throttle body/faulty throttle body motor/dirty MAF sensor issue. I bought a new TPS and some cleaners. I had both bolt heads snap off when I was removing the TPS from the throttle body, even after heating them up with a torch. Long story short - I f-ed the throttle body up pretty bad and decided to go buy a new one at Autozone. Holy hell, the Explorer is way more responsive now. It seemed to have help alleviate a lot of the RPM surge, but unfortunately it is still slightly present.

I was talking to an uncle that is far more mechanically inclined than me and he was saying that this might be simply how these vehicles are designed. I would like the believe that this isn't the case... I can't see an engineer thinking this was OK for mass production.

Does any other 4th gen owner have RPM surging, especially at 35-45mph???

I do have a little bit of RPM surging at that speed on mine now like it used to have before I got the trans flushed. I know you said you already got yours flushed. It's definitely not a normal operating condition, though. You haven't done anything with the coils, have you? Maybe buy a new one and swap it out with each coil until you find a bad one if that's the problem. Other than that I don't have any ideas.

 

[PotatoExplorer]

Read my post about an issue I had with my v8 going into a limp mode.

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums...ors-u0101-u1900-solution.438414/#post-3491861

Explorer_PL - Thank you for your story on this. I had read the whole thing when I posted about getting the orange wrench back in September and you had replied to that post with your link. I didn't think it was the same issue prior, but after rereading it again it does sound like these could be similar.

Owner manual says the engine will protect itself as well as tranny if certain things happen. Over heating for one. Its all there.!! Most people don't read the manual.

I'm trying to figure out the culprit that is making it go into limp mode. I've read the owners manual and the only thing it said was to immediately take it in to get the 4x4/powertrain looked at. Maybe I need to re-read the owners manual as well. I guess also maybe I don't quite understand your response?

I do have a little bit of RPM surging at that speed on mine now like it used to have before I got the trans flushed. I know you said you already got yours flushed. It's definitely not a normal operating condition, though. You haven't done anything with the coils, have you? Maybe buy a new one and swap it out with each coil until you find a bad one if that's the problem. Other than that I don't have any ideas.

I seriously thought about getting the transmission pan dropped again. From what I remember reading was that not even half the transmission fluid is actually in the pan/filter. I think more than half is tied up in the transmission and torque converter?

Yes, I can not bring myself to believe that this would be normal operating condition. After re-reading Explorer_PL's story again, I thought about changing all the coils and then was immediately punched in the gut when I saw the price for all 8 COPs. Maybe buying one and giving it a test drive on each cylinder could pin point a problem.

I'm very close in thinking about cutting my losses with this Explorer, especially since this morning coolant was shooting out the back side... but my bull headedness wants me to push through to figure out what the hell is going on with this vehicle.

 

[Explorer_PL]

I think in my case replacing just the 4 or 3 (#2,3 and 4) on passenger side would fix the issue as the harness goes over directly those coils.

And yes, the prices are up there for the COPs. I found mine on Amazon I believe.

 

[yoster]

For what it's worth, mine did this same thing a few years ago. Replaced the fuel filter and wala, problem gone.