My new 347

4pointslow · May 18, 2018

I did some pressure testing on my 1998 4 door and posted it on youtube, I will have to go back and look at how high the readings went.
It was when I had a slipping torque converter and DTC. Turned out to be a valve body problem.

If the pressure doesn't turn out to be a problem, maybe swap that torque converter out for a stock one as a test?
It is just funny how Vroomzoomboom had a thrust failure and it turned out to be the pump was marred.
Now you are having the same problem, I guess you already looked at the torque converter where it enters the pump to look for marring?

If it turns out to be line pressure to high, cant you lower pressures in the tune?
Maybe I am just on too much Nyquil right now, been sick for a week now.

Dono · May 18, 2018

lol.
I love Nyquil, but only when I don't have to do anything but sleep.

I have examined, and taken all kinds of pictures of the splines on both the trans side and TC so I could enlarge them and take a close look. They all look great.
Yes, I can lower the pressures in the tune. Don Lasota recommends maxing out shift pressures at wot, but I'm thinking this might not be a good thing in some cases. I already lowered the wot shift pressures 30% in the tune, and will be loading that before any wot runs are done. Like you and everyone else says...Need to know line pressures.

It is strange that both Tim and I had/are having thrust issues. Must be the air up here.

CDW6212R · May 18, 2018

GoldV8Ranger said:
Hey Dono, Ive been through the whole new transmssion lines from the transmission up to the radiator. DONT USE THE COMPRESSION FITTINGS. I jst finished my V8 swap into my ranger and i had two of those compressions on there to scab a couple pieces together and within a week of driving, the heads of those fittings cracked and started leaking. I know its a pain in the a** but flare all fittings and get the correct screw together fittings that you can use pipe thread sealant on and never have to worry about it again

Ditto, the compression fittings are way less sure of holding pressure. In rare cases they may work well for typical ATF pressures. But typically one or more will leak eventually.

Have you measured the one line going from the cooler to the trans? If that length is a match to what parts stores sell(say 36"), then you could buy one and bend it easier than doing the flared end.

GoldV8Ranger · May 18, 2018

I know when I put all new lines in, I used 3-5' lines and 2-12" lines. Used the 12in to connect to the transmission and bring a coupling below the exhaust for easier transmission removal later

But i also took my time and had extra. It was my first time ever flaring and bending pipe (only 19 so kinda expected to not have experience)

Dono · May 21, 2018

Iv'e been reading and trying to understand what I'm doing, since I clearly have no clue.
Where do I start? Google. Then I end up at TCCoA, the home of Jerry's mod. Since he was a designer on this transmission, I'm going to say he knows what he's talking about.

4pointslow, I do want to thank you for being the voice of reason warning me not to cut lines. Much appreciated.

1. Tim and I (And many of you here I'm sure [even if you didn't say it]) thought I was going down the wrong path thinking the coolers were creating a restriction increasing my line pressure. This was obviously a symptom of me not having a clue. I'm trying to get a clue.
2. Reading that optimum trans temp is between 160-180 degree's I also opted not to add another cooler. More cooling is not necessarily better, and I'm sure climate plays a part in what we choose to do here. I already apologized to Tim for wasting his time for going out and pulling one for me.
3. I'm opting out of adding a trans oil filter. It might not be a bad idea to add one, but if there's a catastrophic trans failure, the filter is actually after the radiator and external cooler which is too bad, as they would need replacing anyway. With my current issues, I don't want to change too many things till I get the thrust bearing issue sorted out.
4. The 2 hard trans cooler lines that were cut previously by the guy that welded a mount for my inter-cooler (The lines were in the way, so he cut them thinking it wouldn't be a big deal. Well, a line did pop off once, and I did try and fail at flaring once before. Tim does have a couple of lines, so I am going to replace them and figure out another way to attach the soft lines, even if I need to attempt bending the hard line slightly. More to come on this. Hopefully I can find an easy, workable solution.
5. I'm going to move my shift pressures back to very close to factory in my tuning, except for the 2-3 shift (I'll leave it higher). This was very interesting information for me. That, and I already have a valve body that has been modified by Lentech. It is possible that there is way to much line pressure. I will need to get a gauge on the transmission once the truck is together, and can add shift pressure if everything looks ok on the line pressures.

Read the info below from TCCoA (Some of you already have, but these notes are very important to where I am currently at).

No movement on my motor yet. Its not even apart to be inspected yet. I really hope my $1000.00 pistons are salvageable. I'm not even opposed to an after market block, depending on whats found on disassembly. Dimas says hes absolutely certain that once he is done the motor will be well over 400 crank HP. He says he cant remember the last time he built s motor that only made 400 horse. He feels even with minor head porting of my TW170's he will find another 30 horse (He could feel the imperfection in the exhaust ports).

I wonder what my wife will say to me when she sees the house line of credit suddenly bulge? I might be sleeping in that truck.

gmanpaint · May 22, 2018

The learning curve is actually a crooked jagged friggin line. Each direction change is costly, and why I got out of the need for high-speed. Lol

When you get this issue sorted, you will have earned and paid for the education. Our passions drive us to keep going. Sometimes they drive us to victory, and sometimes to ruin. I sincerely hope, yours is a checkered flag.

Hang in there, I'm rooting for you!

CDW6212R · May 22, 2018

The stronger blocks have jumped a lot in price in the last 10 years. If you might need one, start hunting so you might find a good used one with very little time on it. The several non Dart blocks turn up rarely, those are older, and bore size is harder to work out, different potentials etc. Stock blocks are not strong, but what kills them are big harmonics of any kind, detonation, rpm's and imbalances etc. You know all of that, well designed and tuned stock block engines have seen 600hp. Strokers push the limits more than a 3" stroke, and a turbo is far far more forgiving than a crank run supercharger. Those put a lot of pressure on the crank snout.

There's no magic equation to figure out what level you might break the block. But if you are very careful with tuning, I think you are below the danger threshold still. If tuned well, the boost level would be the final control.

Dono · May 22, 2018

I was given a deal on the doorman trans lines that I found hard to refuse. Even if they didn't work, I could return them. They worked fine.
I was able to cut the inter-cooler bracket back a bit and run the trans lines over the front of the inter cooler. Not as pretty, but I really don't think anyone will notice anyway.
I'm going to call this part done.

Dono · July 5, 2018

So, it looks like I'm going to end up with another new 347.
Block is pretty much toast. I'm pretty sure the when the pistons come out they will be all scratched up, just like a couple cylinder walls. Crank, toast...No surprise there.

The engine builder really wants to see a billet cover torque converter go in as he see's witness marks that the torque converter was pushing in to the flex plate super hard. This could be some ballooning of the tc, or too much line pressure in the trans pushing the tc against the flex plate. Maybe both...

So, here's the tc I think I'll go with.
FORD 11" HP Series 4R70 Torque Converter
CircleD has a great reputation. This one has a 2800 stall compared to a 2400 that I have currently. I want the higher stall as my truck was always soft out of the gate.

I'm still not sure what kind of a block I'm going with. Tim has a free factory block for me if I want it. That's pretty attractive, I have to say.

Centaurus5.0 · July 5, 2018

Buy once, cry (hard) once..

Liberator Dart 3331/347/363 Shortblock

$5000 = 363ci and the last short block you'll ever need.

You could have the fastest Ex on the planet Dono! Just think about it! Do it for your country! Think of the kids! Who else but you could attain it?? Think about the Glory to be had Dono! THE GLORY!!

Dono · July 5, 2018

Your a very bad man. lol
Where I'm struggling is that a dart block wont stop thrust bearings from being taken out.

Also, my last short block came from there, and the block seems to have been cursed from day one.

Centaurus5.0 · July 5, 2018

I didn't know that (or forgot). That stinks. They have such a good rep too..

On the other hand, I do like free as much as the next guy. Free is good! :thumbsup:

CDW6212R · July 5, 2018

Dono said:
So, it looks like I'm going to end up with another new 347.
Block is pretty much toast. I'm pretty sure the when the pistons come out they will be all scratched up, just like a couple cylinder walls. Crank, toast...No surprise there.

The engine builder really wants to see a billet cover torque converter go in as he see's witness marks that the torque converter was pushing in to the flex plate super hard. This could be some ballooning of the tc, or too much line pressure in the trans pushing the tc against the flex plate. Maybe both...

So, here's the tc I think I'll go with.
FORD 11" HP Series 4R70 Torque Converter
CircleD has a great reputation. This one has a 2800 stall compared to a 2400 that I have currently. I want the higher stall as my truck was always soft out of the gate.

I'm still not sure what kind of a block I'm going with. Tim has a free factory block for me if I want it. That's pretty attractive, I have to say.

I'm sorry to hear the rest of the engine is hurt too, ouch.

That TC looks good and I've read a couple of good suggestions for them on the Corral also. I have no real TC experience, but I've been impressed with the helpfulness of Alan of DirtyDogPerformance. He's been good to talk to on the phone 3-4 times I've called him. Does he still make TC's, and have you considered asking him what he thinks you need, and about the crank thrust issue?

Dono · July 5, 2018

Alan felt off a few years ago. I have no idea where he's at now.

vroomzoomboom · July 5, 2018

don.....not that i am trying to talk you out of things BUT!
$5000 US would be roughly $6500 tim hortons, and thats before all the other garbage our government will throw at you
daily driver. from temps 35C to -50C (yes peps, thats no exaggeration either)
she's not a race truck
free, FREE stock block, that i am sure isnt trashed, but if the bores have marks in them, its gonna need to be bored and clearanced anyway

vroomzoomboom · July 5, 2018

also, this was floating around in my head. you had said your converter came from the same place as mine did correct? yea, we both need to avoid that place. both of us have had problems with them.

Dono · July 5, 2018

lol. I wonder what the common denominator is of the thrusts going, other than us both modifying the crap out of every moving part.

I sent a message to Dimas asking if he was ok with using your core. No response yet. I know he's been busy, but I really want him to get moving on my motor. Its been over 2 months now.

edit: Dimas responded. Tim, I would love to have your block. He said sometime this weekend we will be good.

Tim, your the best! I don't care what your ex says about you. lol

gmanpaint · July 5, 2018

You guys are sounding like the cast from street outlaws. Lol !

If I had to predict your future..... I see twin 80mm precision turbos, for you, and a big ole procharger for Tim, both on Hemi's.

That might put you guys in the 10's.... might mind you.

Dono · July 5, 2018

Might be fun to strip the interior and dash out of the ol limited and fit a couple of twins in the cab area for a last blaze of glory redneck style.

Seriously, If I could just figure out how to make around 450 wheel horse power reliably I'd be happy. I don't see how that is an issue, but here I am.

CDW6212R · July 5, 2018

Dono said:
Might be fun to strip the interior and dash out of the ol limited and fit a couple of twins in the cab area for a last blaze of glory redneck style.

Seriously, If I could just figure out how to make around 450 wheel horse power reliably I'd be happy. I don't see how that is an issue, but here I am.

I think the combination of parts you just had in it would be able to get to that level when everything is worked out. The block should be able to take 450hp with a turbo, and safe tuning. Keep at it, I wish the crank issue hadn't come up so many times with Tim and your engines.

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