water pump

[bram]

Hi,
2017 Explorer XLT with 47,000 kms. Upper rad hose collapses and low rad level. Took to dealer and says new water pump is required. Anyone having same issue??

 

[peterk9]

Welcome to the Forum.
You are not the only one to have had a collapsed rad hose. Upper Radiator Hose Flat? *Pic*
As for the low coolant level in the rad itself, that could be a concern. First thing to check is the oil dipstick to see if the oil shows any signs of contamination from the coolant.
If it does that would mean the coolant has leaked into the engine itself. Water pump failure leads to dead engine How did the dealer determine that you required a new water pump? This could be a very serious issue given that the pump is located within the engine.
Was the engine coolant reservoir empty?

Peter

 

[bram]

Hi Peter,
Thanks. Every month or so, reservoir level would drop for no reason. Dealer kept topping it up when this happened. I spoke to the service rep at the dealer a number of times and voiced my concern. I'm not mechanically inclined, but you should never have to add rad fluid to a new car- is what I said. It wasn't until I went in to the dealer and spoke to the service manager that anything started to get done. Car was left over night, was pressurized and then they put a scope into it. That's what they told me. Truck is going in Monday for the repair- 2 days. Wow, purchased new with 100k on it. Disappointment is an under statement.

 

[peterk9]

My biggest concern would be, Where was the coolant going?

 

[bram]

I'll see how it goes on Monday. Hopefully they will inspect the motor seeing that it has to be opened up. Don't trust them anymore.

 

[mjh-Canada]

My biggest concern would be, Where was the coolant going?

Mine too. I am at 50 k, and the level in an inch below the low line. No foam in the oil cap....

 

[Keith N]

I think a little bit of usage is ok, just when it starts going low quickly. You don't know if you are burning it (internal leak), dripping out weephole of pump and onto engine (and if lucky you will see some on ground), or worst case, mixing with oil and could ruin engine. For example, I keep a close eye on mine, noting level each few weeks. In a year it has dropped an inch. I don't view this as excessive. Now if the tank dropped an inch per month, I would be concerned and start figuring out where it is going, or at least rule out mixing with oil first. I agree with the other member who suggest Ford should include a low level warning on coolant tank. It could at least save those who don't check regularly or if the leak starts quickly, alert you before engine damage hopefully.

 

[bram]

Mine too. I am at 50 k, and the level in an inch below the low line. No foam in the oil cap....[/QUO

Mine too. I am at 50 k, and the level in an inch below the low line. No foam in the oil cap....

I think a little bit of usage is ok, just when it starts going low quickly. You don't know if you are burning it (internal leak), dripping out weephole of pump and onto engine (and if lucky you will see some on ground), or worst case, mixing with oil and could ruin engine. For example, I keep a close eye on mine, noting level each few weeks. In a year it has dropped an inch. I don't view this as excessive. Now if the tank dropped an inch per month, I would be concerned and start figuring out where it is going, or at least rule out mixing with oil first. I agree with the other member who suggest Ford should include a low level warning on coolant tank. It could at least save those who don't check regularly or if the leak starts quickly, alert you before engine damage hopefully.

Hi Keith,
Ya, every month or so it was low. Dealer also added dye into the fluid and used a UV light to see were the heck it was going. Oil was inspected after the oil change and it all checked out. Biggest fear was that the leak was so minor that if it had gone undetected, eventually my warrant would be up and I'd be stuck with a burnt motor. Had to really push dealer to dig deeper, not sure what else they'll find once water pump is changed.

 

[fast_dave]

Kessler Topaz Meltzer & Check, LLP Announces A Consumer Class Action Filed Against Ford For Defective Water Pumps

"The chain-driven water pump in the Ford Cyclone Engine is located internal to the engine. When the water pump prematurely fails, coolant leaks from the water pump directly into engine parts or the oil pan, destroying essential engine components or mixing with the engine's oil. In many cases, this mixture of engine oil and coolant is carried throughout the engine, leading to destruction of the engine. This often occurs with little to no warning. Despite having knowledge of this defect, Ford has continued selling defective vehicles, has failed to disclose the defect to owners and lessees, has not issued a recall, and has not remedied the issue and/or compensated owners and lessees of the defective vehicles."

LINK TO ARTICLE: Kessler Topaz Meltzer & Check, LLP Announces A Consumer Class Action Filed Against Ford For Defective Water Pumps

LINK TO LAWSUIT FILING: https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/FordPumps.pdf

 

[Stephen Cannon]

Bram: They are trying to wait you out and playing the odds that the warranty and extended warranty if applicable will expire. Common stall tactic and most of the time favors the dealer or merchant that had the inferior designed component. This is not just automobiles and trucks and could apply to majority of items for sale in todays market computers, consumer electronics, home appliances, vehicles, etc...

The biggest question is with all the attention were any changes made to later models? I Realize internal and still timing chain driven but were any changes made to later models like redesign to add better protection in the event of a sealant or gasket failure or a weep hole that can drain down OUTSIDE of the Timing Chain cover and to the ground for better visual observation by the owners. Internal location of a potential high cost and high demand component is bad enough. At minimum design external "Weep Hole" or drain tube outside of the timing chain cover to provide a reasonably quick visual indication of possible sealant or gasket failure and corrective action. Even if outside warranty period spending $1500 on water pump is much better than a $8500 (ish) new engine. Assuming it is new out of the crate and not a reman

The other major problem is even if Ford does R/R the full entire engine assembly and associated damaged components they are going to replace the engine with the exact same designed engine that Caused the problem in the first place. At very minimum the design of the W/P needs to be changed to allow external visual indication of leaks that cold be observed by a reasonable person with basic automotive knowledge to how systems operate. Ideally the replacement engine would be re designed with external pump.

 

[blwnsmoke]

I was speaking with my tech who did all the work on mine last week. He had told me they dont see many consumer water pump failures.. he sees a lot more PIU fsilures because they are constsntly running/idling. He said he has done many in the 25-30k range and has done a few motors as well.

He agreed about adding a coolant sensor but his comment is what rings true.. Ford is riding the warranty and gambling they will be out of warranty by the time it fails.

 

[mcpcartier]

I was speaking with my tech who did all the work on mine last week. He had told me they dont see many consumer water pump failures.. he sees a lot more PIU fsilures because they are constsntly running/idling. He said he has done many in the 25-30k range and has done a few motors as well.

He agreed about adding a coolant sensor but his comment is what rings true.. Ford is riding the warranty and gambling they will be out of warranty by the time it fails.

I'm brain dead this AM...what's a PIU? The only thing that comes to mind is police interceptor unit.!

 

[peterk9]

I'm brain dead this AM...what's a PIU? The only thing that comes to mind is police interceptor unit.!

You got it. (U=Utility)

 

[mcpcartier]

You got it. (U=Utility)

Thanks....read it again and realized I missed the word consumer...so I thought it read....I don't see many water pump failures...he see a lot more PIU failures. throw the word consumer in there and it makes sense. my bad

 

[fast_dave]

Just throwing this out there as food for thought.

I'm not surprised at all that when you have a Water Pump related problem, trying to get it repaired under warranty for $0.00, and are questioning an "joe six pack hourly paid tech" at a Ford dealership that they're reply is that "they don't see too many water pump problems..."

Face it, no tech wants word to get back to the Service Advisor that "the tech tells me that they see this on the entire Cyclone line of engines - it's an engineering screw up and Ford knows about it."

Dealership Techs need to keep their hourly paid job...

This Water Pump engineering screw up (and ptu placement next to the Catalytic Converter) keep me from buying this current generation of V6 Explorer. The only current gen Ex I'd even consider is the 2.3 Ecoboost - and then with that you have the head gasket issue...

 

[peterk9]

The only thing I agree with is the part about the water pump engineering.

Peter

 

[peterk9]

Hi Keith,
Ya, every month or so it was low. Dealer also added dye into the fluid and used a UV light to see were the heck it was going. Oil was inspected after the oil change and it all checked out. Biggest fear was that the leak was so minor that if it had gone undetected, eventually my warrant would be up and I'd be stuck with a burnt motor. Had to really push dealer to dig deeper, not sure what else they'll find once water pump is changed.

Any update?