Water pump failure leads to dead engine

[pmonty]

Sounds like you got lucky.
All heat goes through the same heater core, so not getting heat in other HVAC settings is usually a blend door issue, but it got you into the shop to find the leak.
Poor interior heat like you describe could be failing thermostat or blend door issue.
If you are low on coolant, the heat only when moving makes sense(engine rpm higher to pump the remaining fluid through system).

Yes, that is the way it was explained to me . . . heat was coming off engine in defrost . . . based on what I've read and studied over the weekend, fortunate we had a cold spell last week, because I usually don't run the heat . . . Otherwise, I likely would have kept going until the engine seized up . . .

 

[RedXLTlove]

I have been following this thread and I just have to wonder why Ford put the water pump in that location? Every brand of car that has an ICE needs a water pump and at some point they all fail, so why make it cause engine failure? Very infuriating design!

I had a Chrysler with 2.7 and they did they same damn thing, though they learn the hard way with all their engine failures and their new v6 has an external water pump. Ford should take a cue.

 

[blwnsmoke]

I have been following this thread and I just have to wonder why Ford put the water pump in that location? Every brand of car that has an ICE needs a water pump and at some point they all fail, so why make it cause engine failure? Very infuriating design!

I had a Chrysler with 2.7 and they did they same damn thing, though they learn the hard way with all their engine failures and their new v6 has an external water pump. Ford should take a cue.

It has been posted many times.. it is internal because the engine would not fit with an external pump. I do not think Ford realised these would fail at the rate they do and being they have redesigned the water pump a few times shows they know it is an issue. Despite that, it isnt like Ford can redesign it.. this version of the 3.5 is practically obsolete after this current model year.

 

[peterk9]

[

I have been following this thread and I just have to wonder why Ford put the water pump in that location? Every brand of car that has an ICE needs a water pump and at some point they all fail, so why make it cause engine failure? Very infuriating design!

I had a Chrysler with 2.7 and they did they same damn thing, though they learn the hard way with all their engine failures and their new v6 has an external water pump. Ford should take a cue.

As blwnsmoke mentioned, the reason has been posted here many times. The latest just 4 posts above yours along with the resolution, we all hope, as well.

Peter

 

[peterk9]

I discovered this thread because I had the exact same issue with my 2015 Explorer. $2600 to replace pump, plugs, belt, etc. . . .Discovered the coolant leak because my heat stopped working. Only defrost setting while car in motion generated heat. When car was stopped or on any other setting, only cold air blew from the vents. 98K on my Explorer . . . pretty infuriating . . .

Welcome to the Forum.
You were lucky that it was caught in time before it took out the engine.

Peter

 

[runningonfords]

In this or other related threads someone claimed that there is a recommended-to-replace parts list for the water pump replacement / timing job in here somewhere. I have gone through all 25 pages and can't find any list though. Can someone point me to a list of parts, store page, or the thread with a list of the parts (TTY bolts, chains, pump, guides, tensioners, solenoids, balancer?) that is likely a good idea to replace at this junction? If going this deep in the engine at 150k or so miles, no symptoms so far, I'd like to replace replace replace all the timing components I can while doing the pump. I've got the methods threads and videos pretty much covered between the various models I've seen so far. Thanks in advance.

 

[blwnsmoke]

In this or other related threads someone claimed that there is a recommended-to-replace parts list for the water pump replacement / timing job in here somewhere. I have gone through all 25 pages and can't find any list though. Can someone point me to a list of parts, store page, or the thread with a list of the parts (TTY bolts, chains, pump, guides, tensioners, solenoids, balancer?) that is likely a good idea to replace at this junction? If going this deep in the engine at 150k or so miles, no symptoms so far, I'd like to replace replace replace all the timing components I can while doing the pump. I've got the methods threads and videos pretty much covered between the various models I've seen so far. Thanks in advance.

Check out Post 581 on page 24

 

[RedXLTlove]

It has been posted many times.. it is internal because the engine would not fit with an external pump. I do not think Ford realised these would fail at the rate they do and being they have redesigned the water pump a few times shows they know it is an issue. Despite that, it isnt like Ford can redesign it.. this version of the 3.5 is practically obsolete after this current model year.

Completely understand, that being said, I am sure they could have figured a way to make it fit, as other manufactures have made it work.

I am not worried and I love our Explorer, if I can live a Chrysler 2.7, then I will be fine with this Ford.

So is the new version of the 3.5 & other Ford V6 engines have the water pump elsewhere?

 

[mcpcartier]

In this or other related threads someone claimed that there is a recommended-to-replace parts list for the water pump replacement / timing job in here somewhere. I have gone through all 25 pages and can't find any list though. Can someone point me to a list of parts, store page, or the thread with a list of the parts (TTY bolts, chains, pump, guides, tensioners, solenoids, balancer?) that is likely a good idea to replace at this junction? If going this deep in the engine at 150k or so miles, no symptoms so far, I'd like to replace replace replace all the timing components I can while doing the pump. I've got the methods threads and videos pretty much covered between the various models I've seen so far. Thanks in advance.

Not sure if this will help you but here is what I needed on my 2013 last summer.

1 Waterpump - -------------ac delco----------252955--------$59.78
2 Valve cover gasket kit - mahle -----------vs50722 -------$54.78
3 timing cover seal -------- mahle-----------67616---------- $6.51
4 timing chain kit ---------- melling ----------31049SA ------$359.78
5 Accessory Belt ---------- motorcraft-------JK6457A -------$13.12
6 cam phaser intake bolts qty 2 ------------AT4Z6279D--- $7.04
7 cam phaser exhaust bolts qty 2 ----------AT4Z6279E ----$7.48
8 coolant - dex-cool wss-m97b44-d2 ---------------------------$18.31
9 oil, oil filter, gallon of distilled water, scotchbrite pads ----$37.39

Total--------------------------water pump/timing chain costs $564.19

There were a few other things like RTV that come to mind....but that is the lions share

 

[Kayvan]

I have been reading this discussion for a few days since I got my used 2011 Explorer Limited with 82k (dont know and cant get any maintenance records), it look and runs flawless but all this talk is making me worried and not sure exactly what I am supposed to do with all I have read here, all I know is catching the leak for me personally is gambling and I have a low chance of catching it at the right time before its too late
should I be planing on changing the water pump and timing chain soon at 85-90k ?
is there any other obvious BIG point of failure like this issue ?

 

[runningonfords]

Kayvan, no. Not unless your BIG on early preventive maintenance. As others have pointed out in various other threads or other pages of this thread, the issue has impacted a number of fifth gen explorers. That is all there is to say. A number have been affected. That does not mean this is an impending doom for all drivers of gen 5 explorers, and its applicability is likely dependent on what version of the water pump you have. I see you have a 2011, so I think that likely means you have only a single gasket between your oil and water system. Not the greatest news, but there are thousands upon thousands of others in the same boat as you NOT experiencing catastrophic failure. The original post describing the condition here is literally someone driving through the hottest part of the country, in the desert, on a long haul trip. We don't have any idea if that person ever flushed their coolant, or changed their oil often, or noticed the coolant leaking out of the vehicle when they stopped, which may or may not have affected their system's complete failure, but I'll bet that having this happen under demanding conditions didn't help them. No offense to others who have also had sudden total loss of coolant into the oil pan, but I'm just saying... If you're an average daily driver and you pop the hood to glance at your coolant levels every so often you should be fine and confident in your situation. That there isn't a LOW coolant level alarm in our vehicles definitely sucks with regard to this problem, but pop the hood and look at the level of the coolant as often as you like. Look under the passenger side for dripping coolant on the driveway as well. It takes a few seconds and gives peace of mind. If its really low all of a sudden, I would be grabbing the flashlight and mirror on a stick and looking behind the carburetor for weep hole drainage. That being said, if you double or more the mileage through the lifetime of your ownership, I myself would look into finding a shop or dealer to do this job, and is somewhere around $1400 in labor or combined cost I think. I plan on owning my vehicle for a long time (my other vehicle today just ticked over 300,000 miles) which is why i'm plotting this work out well in advance of when it will actually get done...by me. Best to you and good you're aware of inherent risk, but don't lose sleep over problems that have yet to impact you.

 

[Keith N]

I agree with running on fords. Check it every week and before big trips. It sucks it’s a possibility, but at least you know now. We don’t know if this affects .01%, 1%, or 10%. Some cars go to 200k, some 50k. Some are a few years old, but most are older. My 11 has 102k and is fine. But that could change tomorrow. For a lot of people when this failure happens they find this forum. So if 100 or so people have the failure and come to this forum, even that percent is .01%, based on selling 1 million (guess). But when you read a string of so many failures it can be alarming. Have to put it all in perspective is my point. I wouldn’t spend $2000 for a 1% or less chance my pump could fail. But I will keep an extra close eye on it.

 

[Sixonemale]

should I be planing on changing the water pump and timing chain soon at 85-90k ?

I think it depends on what type of driving that you are planning to do over the next few years. If it's a daily driver used for short distances then I would agree with Keith N and runningonfords to check your coolant level at least once a month, but if you plan to take cross country or long distance road trips you may want to seriously consider changing it out as a preventative maintenance measure. My concern with long road trips is that if the coolant were to leak into the engine block, some owners have had no warning that it is doing this, so to avoid going to a dealer or mechanic that you do not know and potentially having to stay at a hotel to wait for an engine to be shipped and the work to be done, replacing it before hand may not be a bad idea. In addition that since the labor charge is high, it would probably be beneficial to have other items taken care of such as replacing the spark plugs and the items as mentioned in mcpcartier's post #629 by a mechanic that you are familiar with. Lastly, these thoughts are worth what you paid for them, one person's opinion.

 

[Keith N]

Good points @Sixonemale. Sadly I would be hesitant too against a long trip. While you could still check the coolant level every gas stop say, it would be an ugly affair to have to deal with a failure several hours from home. Go to page 1 to see how ugly it could be. Hopefully the odds of failure are truly low, like say 1% under 150k, but that is speculation on my part. I would say if it was truly high, there would be recalls or a big class action. None the less it is a risk.

If I had to drive this car out of state say, I would consider a replacement. Shop around. Find a good mechanic who has worked on ford water pumps. For me, I plan to keep my 2011 in state at this point and pretty soon my teenage kids will be driving it and can hopefully get a few years out of it.

 

[boominXplorer]

If your changing the pump at or under 100k miles you can probably skip all timing components except the tty bolts. From what I've seen they are usually hardly worn at 100k.

 

[K_Redmond]

I just got an email from someone claiming to be a lawyer researching a class action suit on this issue in Ontario Canada. I have responded. If anything proceeds on this, I will post more info.

Just a reminder of my original post...especially as at least one member has indicated poor maintenance and driving through the desert a likely factors (Note: ours was a well maintained vehicle and the failure happened in a Canadian winter...and it was on a day that was below 0 weather!

We purchased this vehicle 'gently used' from the same well respected Ford Dealership where the original owner had purchased it and just recently traded it in. Maintenance records indicated a vehicle that was meticulously maintained by previous owner and I have done the same..

We experienced catastrophic failure just months later at 88000 miles due to water pump leaked and contaminated the engine oil with coolant.... $2300 quoted to replace water pump only, but told really need to replace engine too as bearings may be damaged ... total $7000.

After only 10 months on a relatively new car, I am facing a $7000 repair bill, and it happened with no warning. Three days ago, a few miles from home, the check engine light came on. I immediately paid attention. Car sounded fine, no sign of trouble, figured I would take it in to dealer after work.... and at about that point, the temperature gauge started to climb. As soon as I saw it heading for the red zone, I pulled over, turned if off and called the tow truck to take it to the dealership where I bought it. I understood the danger to the engine if I drove it overheated. Even though it is winter here and outside temperature was below zero, this gauge was climbing pretty fast.

The rest of the story can be found by searching the internet. The internal water pump (what were they thinking?) leaked coolant into the engine oil. Almost simultaneously, the sensor recognized a problem in the engine due to contaminated oil/bearings coming apart/oil pressure dropping just as coolant had dropped to a level that caused temperature to rise.

I think Ford is praying that these incidents remain isolated and unpublished. You won't see a recall. I wonder how many of these have happened under warranty, so we don't hear about them?

But we ALL know that water pumps do not have the same life span as the engine. Now we also know that these vehicles have a design that has the potential to take out the motor with it when it fails... so what does it matter if it fails within warranty OR at anytime after 60,000 miles? Since when is this acceptable?

 

[peterk9]

I just got an email from someone claiming to be a lawyer researching a class action suit on this issue in Ontario Canada. I have responded. If anything proceeds on this, I will post more info.

There have been several law firms posting here. Did you initiate the contact? Does the 2010 Ford Edge have the same issue?

Peter

 

[K_Redmond]

There have been several law firms posting here. Did you initiate the contact? Does the 2010 Ford Edge have the same issue?

Peter

No, We did not initiate the contact. They contacted us. Our vehicle is the 2010 Ford Edge... See additional info given on my post. Also, if you view ALL posts from my Id, you will see the full report of what happened and final repair costs. This all happened in 2016... but contact re class action suit only happened this month (Jan.2019).

 

[03WIExplorerLtd]

Does 2 to 3 inches of missing coolant (expansion tank from cold line when cold), mean a leak somewhere? Oil looks ok ( looks like used oil) ie no chocolate milk, foaming etc.. inside oil cap, same thing coolant looks ok,(not brown) no drips on driveway.or garage. Resivor cap is tight. Didnt get in my hands and knees in this crazy weather to look under.


To be honest, I thought it was 150k coolant, so its getting a first change soon.

This alarms me as a new engine costs more than this thing is worth.

Having my shop look at it, just wanted to get thoughts here.

 

[peterk9]

Does 2 to 3 inches of missing coolant (expansion tank from cold line when cold), mean a leak somewhere? Oil looks ok ( looks like used oil) ie no chocolate milk, foaming etc.. inside oil cap, same thing coolant looks ok,(not brown) no drips on driveway.or garage. Resivor cap is tight. Didnt get in my hands and knees in this crazy weather to look under.


To be honest, I thought it was 150k coolant, so its getting a first change soon.

This alarms me as a new engine costs more than this thing is worth.

Having my shop look at it, just wanted to get thoughts here.

If you've never added any coolant since you've had the vehicle it could just be low. I'd just fill it to the appropriate line on the tank and keep an eye on it.

Peter