Dana 35 TTB Carrier Breaks. | Ford Explorer Forums - Serious Explorations

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Dana 35 TTB Carrier Breaks.

Creager

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'92 Sport 4x4
I searched through the tons of archvies this site has to offer, and my question has already been answered. Only problem is, im getting two answers.

The Tech at ACCUAuto claims that the Dana 35 ford used in the TTB indeed does not have any carrier breaks. But the stock 3.27 was a thin gear, 4.56 would work fine...

AccuAuto Parts said:
BTW, the factory 3.27 gear was a thin gear, meaning that you can use the same factory case for the 4.56 gears. I also double checked Dana/Spicer archives to verify this.



AAC/AAP


I plan on dropping my front pumpkin in a few momments to throw new gears. But before i do i want to make sure if i need to buy a new carrier or not.

???
 



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I am 99.9% sure there is only one carrier offered for the ttb 35 front end. They are reverse but by the way.
 






i am not 100% sure on this, but when i ordered rotors from a machine shop that my friend owns.. his supplier asked him if it was a 3.73 or below d35 ttb.... that would lead one to think that if there was a break it would be 3.55 and below and 3.73 and up
 






I can't say either way for sure, but on ExplorerEB96's truck, I did a swap from 3.55's to 4.10's without having to change carriers. I know in that range the carrier is the same.
 






what makes things more confusing for me is Ford's claim to not use any carrier breaks in their 'corperate rear ends.' Would Fords rendition of the Dana 35 be considered corperate?

Im still looking for archives from Dana Spicer that would back up what ACCU said, but all ive come across doesnt even list Ford of using a dana 35 or dont list Dana making a model 35. Interesting subject...

The other thing is the fact a lof of suppliers use the same part for the standard rotation (jeep) dana 35 aswell as our (TTB) reverse rotation dana35...

i have 3.27 stock... most the charts say 3.55 and higher is the break for the model 35 carrier, but are they referring to Ford?

I guess i can bust the pumpkin open and try and slide the gears into place a test fit.

---

Now if you take what Jim and JDraper stated... you guys kind of proved the ACCU guy right

jimbean said:
.... that would lead one to think that if there was a break it would be 3.55 and below and 3.73 and up

Although his informatin leads for more to be desired.. it notes that if there is a carrier break, its at 3.73 & Lower...

JDraper said:
I can't say either way for sure, but on ExplorerEB96's truck, I did a swap from 3.55's to 4.10's without having to change carriers. I know in that range the carrier is the same.

If my assumption on Jim Beans comment is correct, then the fact that JDraper could use a 3.55 carrier on a 4.10 gear set then it shows the common break must be misinformation. Probably from all the complications and fashions around the dana 35.

maybe its just the valium kickin in what you thing guys?
 






3.27 to 4.56 for me,

looks like i might be trying the aussie, poop that sucker in there.
 






There was a post on this subject not long ago. The concenus was that there was a carrier break and that a 4.56 ring would not fit in a 3.27 carrier. I do know that it will fit in a 3.73 carrier. I would try to search som more or keep this thread open and ask more people.
 






so, the confusion continues... here is my email to AccuAuto tech that i placed today.

The factory Fords use a “thin” gear for the 3.27 factory ratios, so the ‘general’ rules of the standard Dana 35 do not apply.



4.56 gears will work. The problem with the gears right now is availability. We do not expect to see any for quite a while in any brand (we’re talking months), as there is a shortage of even more common gears right now, the gear companies are leaving some of the rarer axles/gears on the backburner.



AAC/AAP








--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: glenn verner [mailto:mad:yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 7:22 AM
To: tech@accuautoparts.com
Subject: Ford TTB Dana 35?



Hello,



I had contacted one of the techs there a little while back (i dont know if it was you or not) reguarding Carrier Breaks on the Dana 35 (reverse rotation) that Ford uses in their Twin I beam trucks, more notably the 91-94 explorers. I was told they indeed do not use carrier breaks in this version, so its possible for me to use my stock 3.27 carrier on a 4.56 gear install. Can you please confirm that? Thank you.

tech@accuautoparts.com wrote:



BTW, the factory 3.27 gear was a thin gear, meaning that you can use the same factory case for the 4.56 gears. I also double checked Dana/Spicer archives to verify this.



AAC/AAP







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i guess the only way im going to find out is installing the gears on the stock carrier, and seeing if the pinion and ring gear match up realisticly.
 






It has been assured to me that the Reverse Cut gears for the I-Beam suspention ford uses infact does not have carrier breaks. Here is the follow up on the email above from Accu

Only on the reverse cut D35 like yours (I-Beam basically)… we still referenced the original Dana breakdown to double check… most Jeep rear 35’s use the standard case break rules…



AAC/AAP








--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: glenn verner []
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 12:08 PM
To: tech@accuautoparts.com
Subject: RE: Ford TTB Dana 35?



oh the gears are not a problem, i have them already. They are the reverse rotation. So the carrier does not change, or break with the Fords? interesting.
 






Interesting!!! I have similar plans of regearing my TTB...(currently I am running 3.27's and want to upgrade to 3.73 or 4.10)


SUBSCRIBING...
 






ExplorerDMB started a thread "A Helpful List of Carrier Breaks" he has indicated that the D-35 does have a break between the 3.27 and 3.55 ratio. You may want to look it up. There was some disscussion with the thread.
 






unclemeat said:
ExplorerDMB started a thread "A Helpful List of Carrier Breaks" he has indicated that the D-35 does have a break between the 3.27 and 3.55 ratio. You may want to look it up. There was some disscussion with the thread.

Actually, i just looked that thread up. It was concluded that Jeep dana 35s have more of an issue with carrier breaks. He removed he explorer D35 of having a carrier break. Mainly for the same issue we are discussing now, also i believe they came to the conclusion that most of newer models (95-01) didnt have gearing below 3.55, so the carrier break wasnt an issue.

I guess im going to try and go for it, run 4.56 open with my current carrier. Im still waiting on a transaction for some newer seats to go through, although the seller hasnt replyed to me in a couple days :confused: So once that happeneds im going to probably buy an aussie locker to throw in there.
 






Finally! i got something underway.

So far, the 4.56 gears seem to mesh fine, and fit wonderfully on the 3.27 Carrier.

I dont have the gears completely set up, i am having a couple issues with the 'oil slingar/pinion shim' being too big, so i havent gotten around to pictures yet.

You can see that the 4.56 gears are 'thick' compared to the stock 3.27. I will definatly get a picture of this. I figured if the carriers did have a 'break,' then i wouldn't be able to get my gears to fit [or even touch for that matter,] in the same housing. This is not the case, the gears fit fine. But with a backlash of .000 and a pinion depth thats off the charts, its too early to tell until i get things a little more realistic.

my 3.27 carrier is trashed (roll pin is SIEZED after 200k miles, and i wedged the tip of a punch in the damn thing when i tryed to press the pin out haha :D), so i have a new '3.73' carrier on the way. Ill make sure to get some pictures of these side by side... so we can debunk this myth :thumbsup:
 






The Dana-Spicer model 35 equipped on the 1991-1994 explorers does not have any carrier breaks. I have compared the 3.27 carrier with my new 3.73 carrer, they are identical. The gears are infact 'thick'.

Pretty cool huh? Ill get a picture of the two carriers side by side once i get everything buttoned up.





---

If you are ever tearing down a Dana 35, and need some advise, i'd like to share some knowledge.

1) Of course, the carrier does not have a carrier break. You can use any ratio you want on the stock carrier.

2) This model 35 uses a roll pin instead of a bolt to retain the cross shaft, which is a major pain in the ass. Although you dont to remove the cross shaft to remove the c-clip (unlike with the 8.8)

3) The roll pin should hammer right out with a ball pein hammer and a sturdy punch. If your roll pin does not move, to the point where you are getting your punch stuck in the pin, stop indefinatly. I kept trying to drive the roll pin, and drove it right into the cross shaft. My stock carrier is ruined! haha, so learn from me. What happends is that cross shaft twists after so many hundred-thousand miles, twisting the roll pin right along inside of it. Use a die-grinder to make a notch in the cross shaft, so you can try and 'hammer it back in place,' to untwist the cross shaft, and ultimatly the roll pin. I tried this method but i ended up contacting Randy's Ring and Pinion, they will sell you another carrier for less then $50 bucks. Remember to get a new cross shaft and roll pin with it :thumbsup:

4) This model 35 is an outside shim design, identical to the 8.8

5) The pinion shims on this differential are actually behind the 'Head-pinion bearing' race, the race for very front pinion bearing (the large one!) You will probably destroy your stock shims trying to remove the race =) Becareful while removing that race!! its too easy to nick this aluminum housing and put nice gouges in it. Use a die grinder to grind down the outside diameter of that race to make changing your pinion depth easier.

6) That front spacer/shim/huge dish behind the pinion head is actually an oil slinger. You will have to add this in as part of your pinion depth. If its on backwards it will contact the ring gear, putting nice gouges in the slingar (with a swishy-swashy griding noise!). LOVE IT!

7) Somewhere in the middle of swapping to gears you will notice that your magentic base on your dial indicator doesnt stick to the freakin third member!!! Why? Because its aluminum! And exactly how much of this third member is aluminum? ALL OF IT! haha! You cant get an accurate Backlash without your dial indicator being STRAPPED to the housing. What i did was use a 'Hand-vice' or a clamp, and clamped that sucker down on the lip of the housing. From there i was able to stick the magnetic base on the clamp, because it's STEEL! haha, works like a charm. After a while i realized that a peice from the M5OD transmission mount i had kicking around in my parts bucket was a perfect fit to screw onto the third member via cover bolts/holes. works even better!

8) This goes for everything... USE AIR TOOLS, it will make the job 10x QUICKER/EASIER!

9) If you find yourself struggling to put your new ring gear on your carrier, try this little trick to make things... complelety lazy/painless. Put your ring gear on a cookie sheet and bake it in the oven at 300* degrees for 2-4 hours. Also put your carrier in a freezer for this time. Once time is up, your ring gear with FALL on the carrier with no effort. This will help prevent the gear from warping due to you banging on it with a BFH :hammer: Some say banging the ring gear wont hurt a thing, but i say thats why your backlash changes in from tooth to tooth. Keep this in mind if you are trying to remove a siezed ring gear from a carrier. Use the 300* degree baking method to remove a ring gear (also.) You will have to do a little bit of hammering, but its more like a heavy tapping, heheh. After you have removed your carrier/RingGear from the oven, put two ring gear bolts in, directly across from eachother, and bang on those. The gear should pop off pretty easily, but with some moderate effort.
 






Pictures

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*Look closely, i dont think i can aim a camera good enough haha. The 3.73 carrier actually looks smaller in these photos, but as we all know if there was a carrier break, there wouldnt be any mistaking which carrier would be larger (3.73 would be)

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It could be that my bearing on the 3.27 carrier wasnt pressed on all the way. I had that bearing grinded out so i would be a slip fit... But you should be able to get the idea. NO Carrier break!
 

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im reading in my4 wheel parts catolog in the gear section right now and it says that 90-up ford 4.0L ranger, bronco 2, and explorer case changes 3.31 down and 3.55 up hope this helps, but from the looks of things you guys have found that it doesnt so who knows
 






love2rideyz said:
im reading in my4 wheel parts catolog in the gear section right now and it says that 90-up ford 4.0L ranger, bronco 2, and explorer case changes 3.31 down and 3.55 up hope this helps, but from the looks of things you guys have found that it doesnt so who knows

They are probibly talking about the dana 28 axle which was found in the BII's and rangers
 






love2rideyz said:
im reading in my4 wheel parts catolog in the gear section right now and it says that 90-up ford 4.0L ranger, bronco 2, and explorer case changes 3.31 down and 3.55 up hope this helps, but from the looks of things you guys have found that it doesnt so who knows

It’s a common misconception... most people think 'oh, it’s got to Dana axle under it, and then it’s got to carrier break.' While this is true for Jeeps, and GMs. Ford likes to flaunt that they don’t use carrier breaks on their 'cooperate rear ends'. Implying they use 'thick gears,' which is common knowledge on the 8.8, 9", 10.25... ECT... Any rendition Ford puts out of a Dana axle (Example: reverse cut Dana 35), its going to follow Ford's specifications, which means... no carrier break!

Knowing this, I'm almost certain that second gen's follow the same concept.

The only differences between one carrier from another, is going to be the roll pin size, and possibly the cross shaft size. Randy's ring and pinion had cross shafts that were .675", and .725". Both my carriers were the .675. As far as the roll pin sizes, there are two. a .225" and a .175. Both my carriers were one of each size, so i know for sure they use different roll pin sizes. Just gotta be careful about that if you are ordering new parts.
 






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