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98 SOHC Detonation

eatonc

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February 19, 2000
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City, State
Stuart, FL
Year, Model & Trim Level
98 XLT SOHC 4x4
Hey Guys,
I have had the same problem with my 98 Explorer 4x4 4.0 SOHC since new. When RPM's reach 2600 or above (even on light acceleration) the engine will ping. It used to only happen for the first 15 minutes or until the vehicle was "warmed up". then it would go away and I would notice a power increase. Now it never goes away no matter how far I drive. The symptom will also happen if the vehicle is idling and I "wrap" the throttle quick. The check engine light has never come on. Is there any way to change the engine timing or enhance it. Resetting the computer has no effect. I have tried different gas and still no change. The dealer says they cant do anything because of no error codes. The good news is that I am easy on the gas ,but merging onto the highway is nerve wracking at times. Let me know what you think.

[Edited by eatonc on 01-05-2001 at 06:44 PM]
 



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Goto the dealer and tell them what is wrong. The timing needs to be reprogrammed at you'll have to leave the truck with them to do it. I was lucky enough to get a specialist to do mine at FORD. Also, don't let them try to talk you into running higher octane, that engine is meant to run on 87.

There was a bulletin on this last year and I had to go through a lot of BS with Ford to get the straight answer. I had to wait about 6 months before they new what to do, but that was last year so I am sure it's in the manuals or something now.

You could run a tank of 93 just to be sure and if it goes away then it's a timing problem. Your dealer can fix it.

[Edited by 2001ExpSport on 01-05-2001 at 07:25 PM]
 






Those V6 SOHC motors have a "knock sensor" that is a little microphone that is supposed to detect pings and report these things to the computer.

EatonC, do you do a lot of in-town driving? If so you could have some carbon build up in your valves, even though you have a relatively new Explorer. Best bet is to get some injector cleaner (or go to Ford and get their stuff) then go on the interstate and tromp it a few times. At a few points during your trip slow to 45 mph, then tromp it and go up to about 70 mph. Do that a few times during a short (30 miles) trip. The combination of cleaner and tromping might fix it.
 






2001ExpSport I took your advice and found a few Service Bulletins on the NHTSA website. Just wanted to know where I could get more detailed information concerning them. I would like to have as much knowledge on hand when dealing with our friends at Ford. I am sure they will put up some resistance.
 






eatonc:

My '98 has the same problem. It has been doing it since new and over time (now at 63K miles) it has gotten worse. I have experimented with different octane ratings, which seems to help a bit, but as was noted previously in this thread, this engine should run fine all day long on 87.

The service writer at my dealer suggested that this might be a "carbon knock" from buildup. I have tried using injector cleaner, followed by the "jump on it more often" method to blow out the buildup. Surprisingly, this helped a lot, but did not cure the problem. At my next dealer visit, the plan is to do a "top soak" with special solvent which should break up the deposits.

Hopefully this will fix it, because if it does not, the problem might be related to the cam chains. I have not ruled out that it could also be a timing problem as was suggested by others here, but the computer has not logged any errors, and the diagnostics all look good.

I will post the outcome of my efforts in the future. I hope you will too.

Good luck,
 






The computer won't log any errors because it thinks nothing is wrong. These guys don't understand that you can't always go by what the computer says. Sometimes you have to try to use your brain to fix things and there seems to be a shortage of that at a lot of Ford dealers or any dealer for that matter, not just Ford. The engineer at my dealer spent the day with it and kept reprograming it until the ping was gone. It has to do with spark advance and such. I'm lucky enough to have a great dealer near by with some sharp techs. Try a few dealers, you just have to find one with motivation and the will to help you solve your problem. I did and it worked.
 






"Starting in fall 2000, the 4.0-liter engine will be upgraded with a new composite plastic intake for improved sound quality, revised pistons for improved hydrocarbon emissions ratings and the use of aluminum main bearings for improved engine durability."

Autoworld.com
 






2001ExpSport

Your point about Ford dealer service is well taken. The fact of the matter is that problems like this is not going to get fixed by waiting for the computer to log a problem.

In my exprerience, working closely with your dealer (or whomever is servicing your truck) to develop a step by step action plan is the best way to solve any intermittent problem.

I bought my current Explorer, my '95 Explorer, and my '99 Cobra from the same dealer, which is 20 miles farther from my house than the dealer right in my town. The primary reason I keep going back to them is because their service department is as competent as they are. Over the years I have developed a good relationship with the service writer and service manager at this dealership (through many ups and downs). This has made a real difference for me when trying to sort out transient or chronic problems.

So anyway, let's see if my good buddies can fix this damn thing... stay tuned...
 






Leslie, did you know about this?

Dead Link Removed
 






I had just read about the 72K mile warranty extension over on Blue Oval news, and I did talk to my dealer about it. I have not yet gotten the letter, however, so thanks for scanning it!

I have had both tensionizers replaced twice (25, and 48K), and the cam chain done on the second time (also at 48K) but my dealer managed to get this done under warranty both times. The ping I have now sounds a little different than the oil pressure startup problems I was having before with the cam chain & tensionizers. I hope my problem does not come back to this, but if it did, it would really not surprise me that much.

Looking on the bright side, I think this is a good example of Ford doing the right thing for us. Even if quality is sometimes really only job .9, it's nice to see that they are making an effort to make customer satisfaction job 1.

By the way, your not having any similar problems with your new ST now that the timing is fixed, are you?
 






My Sport is at the dealer getting that 00M12 fix right now. I printed the letter and showed them. The guy insisted it wasn't for my truck. Guess what they are doing today? Yup, you guess it, replacing the tensioner and manifold gasket.
 






God, I hate that. Ford sends out a letter and says they found a problem they will fix, and the dealer always pushes back. Sometimes you just gotta INSIST!
 






I've had a similar problem....

Let me start by saying, I own a '99 Sport with SOHC 4.0L with 41,200 miles on it. I've brought my truck to Ford and they said it was the belt, so they replaced it. A few months later the detonation was still there, this time the engine suddenly started running really rough, then would stall when it was too cold, check engine light was on, all sorts of problems. I brought it back to Ford, this time they said the fuel mixture was too rich, (keep in mind I only run with 93 oct because I have the Superchip). They reprogrammed the computer and I drive out of the dearship and then next 30 minutes, the truck runs fine.... then suddenly the same problem occur. The next day I bring it back to Ford and tell them to FIX it this time and I said take your time with it, I want it fixed correctly! A week later the Ford Technician calls me tells me my cam tensioner is bad and so is my cam shaft. They are going to get me a
new engine. Another 6 weeks go by they finally call me to tell me my truck is ready and I can come pick it up. That was over 2 months ago and now I get the same letter as
2001ExpSport.
 






That's not my letter. I haven't received mine yet. Copied it from another guy here. Got my truck back today and the work order stated that "recall 00M12 performed". Recall? I thought it was just a 'if broke fix it' thing. THey also performed a recall repair on the hood latch. Do you guys know about that one? Me either.
 






It's not a recall. It is just what the Service Advisor typed in on the work order. Mine says "replaced timing chain, chamshaft tensioners, manifold o-rings per bulletin 00M12". I doubt if they replaced my timing chain, but it says so on my work order. Hey, does that mean I now have a 12 month/12K warranty on my timing chain? No mention of recall on my work order though and the number is not an NHTSA recall ID number.
 






Robert:
This is just my opinion, but there seems to be a negative connotation in calling any Engineering change a "recall" whether it is voluntary or not. I don't think dealers are as shy about this, because I have also seen things put on invoices as "recalls" that were called something else in the letter I got from Ford. Ford puts out a lot of changes in the form TSB's (Technical Service Bulletins), Service Advisories, and "Customer Satisfaction Programs" that are not actually called a "recall". In the case of the can chain problems, the warranty extension offer looks like one of the customer sat. deals.

I am not sure how the NHTSA defines a recall, but in my experience, most of the information documented in their recall database is manditory safety related stuff. The only way to really find out if something is covered on a true Ford reacall, TSB, or Service Avisory is to ask your dealer to research it on their OASYS system. If your dealer is good, they will know how to do this, and can come up with everything Ford has ever put out on a particular vehicle.

2001ExpSport:
There was a safety recall on 98-99 Explorers and Mountaineers for the secondary hood latch. The recall number was 99S18. The letter I got in July of '99 stated that it was only 98-99 models that were affected.

WillieChu:
Did your dealer give you any static about replacing your engine under warranty with all that aftermarket gear on it? I know of about 3 cases where Ford has denied warranty claims on the 4.6 DOHC Cobra engines (that were legitimate) due to aftermarket modifications such as performance pullies. Just wondering how they handled your situation at your dealership.
 






Crash512: No static from the dealership at all. They know me very well over there. As for the after market parts added, I've removed the Superchip when I went back to the dealer and I disconnected the Jacob's kit. I ended up sending the Jacob's kit back because it caused me other problems, I asked them to send me the 5.0L kit for my Mustang instead as a replacement at no charge. Also, the Jacob's kit and the Superchip shouldn't have affected the cam.
 






2001EXPSPORT

Thanks for all the info on the 00M12 program. I had one of my tensioners replaced last April and had to pay a deductable since it was off warranty. I printed out your letter and went to my Ford dealership this past weekend. They are giving me a full refund and replacing both tensioners with the updated ones. SO if anyone has had thiers done, make sure they are the new ones. And, the service manager told me the intake gasket gets changed during this.
 






I have finally got a day scheduled for warranty service on my vehicle. In addition to the six saftey recalls found by Fords Oasis system on my VIN. I am going to have my warped rotors turned, the fuel filter replaced and my constantly failing drivers side brake light diagnosed. And of course start the customer vs dealer game to remedy my detonation problems at 2600 RPM. Not bad for a "truck" with 20K miles.

Gee..... and to think I missed all this fun for all these years by not owning an American automobile.... I miss my Toyota and Nissan 4X4's reliability. But such is life.

Dont get me wrong I still like my truck. Compared to other peoples stories on this board I feel VERY lucky. Updates to follow.
 



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Well...The Explorer is back from the dealer ..Overall it has been that bad experience so far. (Except for the two 6 inch scratches on the fenders from the tech's belt buckle) That pissed me off...They admited to it and said they will repair it. All 4 rotors were warped..the brake system bled. They ended up replacing the upper and lower intake seals because of a vacum leak and the cam chain tensioner guide and a bunch of other mine things. The detonation problem is there. Today I went back and took the tech for a ride. Finally we are on the same page. He had some ideas of what settings to play with on the computer but was not sure. Supposedly he will call Ford and get a game plan. We will see what happens next.
 






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