Rear Axle - Excessive Play In/Out & Ridiculous Road Noise

[Rx4phun]

I'll try to bring a old thread back to life

I just replaced my rear wheel bearing today on the driver side due to some serious growling/howling/grinding coming from the rear. It definitely needed it but didnt take care of the in and out play of about 3/8" when I pull the axle in and out. Also the road noise is still there unless I take a pretty hard and or fast left hand turn. Any sugguestions?

As far as the noise. The front end seems tight and the ball joints and bearings are relatively new up front. The pasenger side rear is tight. It's just that driver side rear that had the in and out play well beyond what is normal. Also since the noise goes away with a left turn (when that driver side rear is unweighted) I think the problem is there.

When I had the differential cover off today everything seemed okay but I never had the cover off before today! There just shouldnt be that much play and the noise is quite loud

Any help is appreciated

 

[Rx4phun]

Hi Guys,

I'm looking for some ideas here.

Vehicle:
98 with 3.73 gears stock 8.8 no LS or lockers
Problem:
There is some serious howling/grinding/humming when I am driving. It get a little worse with speed but between 40 and 80 it is just plain ridiculous. The noise all but goes away when I make a pretty hard and or fast left hand turn, there by unweighting the driver side tires.
I jacked the explorer up to see what I could find. Brakes all the way around are good including parking brake. Front end is tight. No play in/out, up/down, left/right etc. Alignment might be a bit off but it's not so bad it's causing this.
Rear end. Passenger side is tight with no play to speak of. Driver side there was no up/down or left/right play but there was a solid 3/8" play in/out. Whatever the exact amount is, it sure isnt normal and when driving behind the X you can see at side tire track back and forth from 0-25 or 30mph.

What I have done so far:
I replaced the driver side rear wheel bearing today with the fixer bearing that rides on the axle in a different place since my axle was groved up a little. When I had the rear diff cover off I looked and looked and had someone else look, we spun the wheel to watch the gears move. Everything seemed to check out alright. We put it back together with the new bearing and filled her up with gear oil.

This has not in anyway, shape or form resolved the axle play or the noise which still stops when I turn left but is more than present otherwise. I need to get this fixed sooner than later.

Now tell me what you got!

Thanks

Gary

 

[CDW6212R]

I would look hard at the C-clip portion of the axles, that's the only thing holding them in side to side.

 

[Rx4phun]

I had the C Clip off. Looks fine but I dont know what it might have looked like new. When I had the axles out I put the C Clip on it and it was fine. Anything just outside the diff that might be messed up that the C clip pushes against?

 

[IZwack]

Maybe put a pair of jackstand under the rear axle (one on each side) and rotate the wheel by hand listening for any grinding or odd noises.

 

[CDW6212R]

If the side to side play is really 3/8" then I would get in to the C-clip area. Start there and also look at the differential parts. Those don't usually wear at all to make any difference, but with a lot of play look at them harder. The C-clip grooves in the axles are not very wide.

 

[pdmustgt]

You meaning the axle is moving in and out right. No it shouldn't do that well not that much. My 8.8 in my 99 mustang did this side carrier bearing was very rough. In most cases it never hurts the ring and pinion unless the bearings really go south. Another thing I've seen the clutch discs burn up behind the side gear that will let it do that too.

 

[IZwack]

Posts extracted from MountaineerGreen's thread and merged with this one.

You meaning the axle is moving in and out right. No it shouldn't do that well not that much. My 8.8 in my 99 mustang did this side carrier bearing was very rough. In most cases it never hurts the ring and pinion unless the bearings really go south. Another thing I've seen the clutch discs burn up behind the side gear that will let it do that too.

I was going to say the carrier bearings too

 

[Rx4phun]

Come on guys. Why dont you make it an easier problem. I dont want it to be the carrier bearing.

That means the gears need to come out right? Which means it's not going to be done by me.

Assuming it is the carrier bearing, 1) what could I expect that job to cost? 2) What's the worst thing and likely thing that would happen if I let it go?

Thanks for all of your replies so far. I appreciate it

 

[pdmustgt]

Easy fix pull the axles out, two bearing caps, pull the carrier out, replaced the bearings. Keep the caps and shims in the side they came out of. Put it back together the way it came apart. The backlash and bearing pre-load stay the same. In most cases it stays the same unless something is very damaged.


I know easy for me to say I do this for a living.

 

[Rx4phun]

I see that it's easy for you to say. Is it easy for you to do? If you can do it easy that means I can probably get it done it will just take me a lot longer. I've never messed with gears before and dont know anything about backlash or marking the gears etc.

Does it seem like my problem is almost certainly the carrier bearing if just on the one side the rear axle is moving in and out?

The front end is humming too now. Maybe it's just an alignment but I feel like it could be more. The fun never ends.

Thanks again for the help.

 

[CDW6212R]

When you get into it to see, hopefully it will be clear where the extra clearance is. Plan to pull the axles. The clutch parts for a LS diff. would be easier, but the carrier bearings are no big deal. The differential is a very tight fit to go back in, so you should expect to go very slow assembling it back in. If it's the carrier bearings, you don't have to do anything to the diff. at all besides R&R it and change the bearings, which do press on/off.

 

[Cobraguy]

Check the cross shaft and end of the axles to make sure they haven't been damaged. That would allow the axle to move inward more. By the way, I've never seen that and I've had a lot of diffs apart.

Check the thrust washer behind the side gear and make sure it's ok. Also check the back of the side gear and the case where it rides and make sure there is no damage there. Also check the side gears and spiders for teeth wear and damage. These too will allow the axle to move in and out. I HAVE seen that several times.

Finally, if you do find carrier bearings need replacing, you can do it yourself even if you don't have a press. Here's the procedure: Take a pair of dikes and cut the bearing cage off the bearing. The rollers will all fall out and you will be left with the inner race. Now, take your MAP gas (hotter than propane) torch and heat the race. It doesn't need to get red. Just heat it up good. Now take a hammer and chisel and "walk" the race off the carrier by tapping it from side to side. You will be amazed at how well that works. Save the race...you will use it to drive the new bearings on. Oh yea...if you do this to the Dana 35 front axle, for God's sake don't forget to put the shims back under the bearing first!

 

[pdmustgt]

I see that it's easy for you to say. Is it easy for you to do? If you can do it easy that means I can probably get it done it will just take me a lot longer. I've never messed with gears before and dont know anything about backlash or marking the gears etc.

Does it seem like my problem is almost certainly the carrier bearing if just on the one side the rear axle is moving in and out?

The front end is humming too now. Maybe it's just an alignment but I feel like it could be more. The fun never ends.

Thanks again for the help.

Yes I'm a mechanic the mechanical side like trans,gears and engine is very easy for me.

Using a torch to remove bearings cut the cage off. Heat the bearing in one spot put the part where it's tipping down in most cases it will slide off. Or heat one spot red use chisel/hammer hit it across the bearing.

 

[gijoecam]

I don't think there's anything wrong, but pics would be helpful. If it was a carrier bearing, he'd have more than a 'slight' noise I would think... A left turn pushes the right axle shaft into the carrier, which loads the LEFT side carrier bearing. If either carrier bearing is cooked, the gears aren't going to be meshing properly, and the ring and pinion are going to cook themselves soon. If pulling the axle to the right was also pulling the carrier to the right, the ring and pinion would be seriously gnashing itself to bits, and there should have been some debris inside the diff (he said it looked good).

There's got to be more going on here... If the axle shaft could move inwards 3.8", wouldn't the c-clip fall out at that point?

 

[icemn5444]

A slight twist on this problem

I have a 2000 Limited with rear end 42, 4.10 no lock. The original poster mentions right axle moves in and out 3/8 ". I have truck on blocks, can push right hub in approx 3/8" inch from normal position, this pushes left axle out same distance. Pushing on left axle returns it and right side to normal position. It will not move beyond normal position pushing from left, only right side. You cannot pull the right axle out beyond normal position. Does this sound like a C clip issue, or a carrier issue?
Thanks for any advice!!!

 

[gijoecam]

If you can't pull the axles out, everything is fine. It really is that simple...

Although thinking about it, the two axles should never make contact with each other.... There's a 1" steel pin between them that prevents them from coming in contact with each other. If pushing one in pushes the other out, the whole carrier may be moving inside the diff, and that would be bad.

Time to pop the cover and see what's moving.

-Joe

 

[IZwack]

If pushing one in pushes the other out, the whole carrier may be moving inside the diff, and that would be bad.

I think you're dead on! The carrier must be moving in order to push/pull the other axle shaft.

 

[icemn5444]

Both of you guys are right...when I pulled the cover off, the whole assembly is moving back and forth. It appears that the assembly can move to the left about 3/8 inch but when moved to right does not go beyond what I believ its normal position. I just started doing some online searches trying to determine what part has failed. This is my first venture into a rear end although I do consider myself to be capable of most repairs. Does this sound like something I will be able to repair myself, or should I be trying to find a reliable shop in my area? If it involves breaking apart the whole assembly, some of the stuff I've read about gear spacing tolerances, and preloads, etc sounds like something I should stay away from. Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I also want to thank all of you for your expertise and patience.

 

[gijoecam]

There are supposed to be shims that hold the carrier in position side to side. Either the shims are missing, or one of the bearings disintegrated. It could also be the pinion gear itself stopping the carrier from moving too far to the one side. Definitely time for a rebuild IMHO. I would not recommend driving it like that.

And since the cover's off, check the bottom of the housing for the shims... they can't be far...