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New Punch HHO 3.0 DC

Marcus Aurelius

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Joined
June 20, 2009
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City, State
Toms River, NJ
Year, Model & Trim Level
2001 XLT
I don't want people to give up on HHO. I want to see better fuel economy out of these bricks. To me, it's worth it to invest in some kind of system to improve fuel economy because I know you guys dread going to the pump more than once a week for your daily driver's that avg. 13mpg city.

So, my reason for posting. I want to buy one of the Punch HHO Hydrogen Fuel Cell's for my explorer. Before I do, I want to know which one I should go for. There is still the original Punch 1.0 for 4.0 engines like mine, but they also came out with new 3.0's- mini, regular, and large. Now the regular and large are for larger engines than mine and diesal engines, but I'm not sure about the 3.0 mini.

What have you guys used, either the 1.0 or the 3.0 mini, if you have? Which would you recommend? Currently, the 1.0 is in limted quantities and will probably run out soon, so they're running a special deal on it and the 3.0 mini might have more output. So please give me your opinions. Thanks

Check it out on PunchHHO.com

-Marc
 



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Hey Marcus,

I just built my own Punch 3.0 DC. I've been doing alot of research and his units seem to be the best. Their tech support is top notch, they have gotten back to me very fast and answered all of my questions. They have a new web site www.drycellplans.com so if you want to build your own cell you can pay a fee to subscribe and you get all of the plans, cad drawings, and instructions. Check it out. If you have any questions PM me or reply to the thread and I'll get back to you. Good luck, Al
 






what's the current draw and production in LPM. how much voltage across each plate.
 






well..... MY cell produces 2 lpm @18~ amps
voltage drop varies on which/how many plates you hook up. you can hook every plate up but you are more efficient to have "skip" plates in between the + and -
I have 4 neutral plates between the + and - on my setup so it goes like this.. 21 plates (+, N, N, N, N, -, N, N, N, N, +, N, N, N, N, -, N, N, N, N, +)

another pic....

PIC-0045.jpg
 






That's twice what the current Punch 3.0 DC makes, but I don't think the DC is for my engine. I think it's meant for deisals. I was thinking more the Punch 1.0 or th 3.0 mini.

Do you know how many lpm's the 1.0 does? It has a good price, but I haven't been able to find any new info on it.

What does amps equate to? Does it have to do with more battery use?, I'm very new to this.

Also, is that $399 price just the cell, or does it include other things like you can pay extra for at punch and be about the same price as yours?

-Marc
 






Actually its about the same as the 3.0 DC . The 3.0 does 1 LPM for every 10 amps. The 1.0 is designed to run at 1.2 LPM at 20 amps if my memory serves me, but the 3.0 is more versatle as you can vary the output by changing your current draw. And yes amps relate to how much draw you need from your alternator to produce the HHO. The standard rule of thumb I believe is a 1/4 LPM for every liter of engine displacement. So if you have the 4.0 in you ex you would need a minimum of 1 LPM of HHO. If it takes too much energy to make the HHO then it gets somewhat counter productive. The alternator is always making voltage,(to charge the battery, run the accessories, etc.) but at higher amp draws its working harder than normal. I just installed mine and I am currently getting 2 LPM at about 20 amps with no noticeable effect on the alternator. If you have any more questions let me know and I'll try to answer or direct you to it. Al
 






Alright, here's my plan. I think I'm going to try the jar method in my camry as my guinea pig before I do it on my explorer. If everything works out, I'll try a dry cell method on my camry which would then go into the ex after testing. I would try the jar method, but I'd want to do 4 jars which would be hard to fit under the hood of the ex. There is too much plastic appearance enhancing stuff.

-Marc
 






Alright, here's my plan. I think I'm going to try the jar method in my camry as my guinea pig before I do it on my explorer. If everything works out, I'll try a dry cell method on my camry which would then go into the ex after testing. I would try the jar method, but I'd want to do 4 jars which would be hard to fit under the hood of the ex. There is too much plastic appearance enhancing stuff.

-Marc

I started out with a single giant glass jar on my friends honda crv. we worked for weeks trying to build it and fine tune it but we were idiots and used terminal bolts WAY to small to carry 15 amps so dont make that same mistake. it blew up and we had glass everywhere. even some in his and my arm. so we moved on to a single pvc pipe and had better luck. it worked "alright" but there were a lot of problems with trying to keep the water out of the engine. we didn't use a bubbler because we had no room so that didnt last long enough to blow up :p:
so then i started designing my dry cell and tried many configurations till I was happy with this design. you can light the hho straight out the hose barb and no damage is done to the cell.
it aslo fits nicely behind the front bumper of my ex as you can see :)
hho-1.jpg


if you use glass jars.. USE a good bubbler and flashback arrestor. its not a matter of "if" its a matter of when it blows up if you don't. another tip is to put something between the jars if you pack them together. no matter how snug they are. if you don't have something soft between them they will break. cloth works great.

keep us posted on you're project! :biggthump
 






Thanks for the info. What I mean by the glass jar method is the wet cell, not the dry, which from what it sounds like, has less of a chance of bursting and there is no nedd for a bubbler.

-Marc
 






hey Marcus,


If you're going to try a wet cell I would strongly suggest that you go with sch 40 PVC and not glass or plastic jars. Just like Matt said its not a matter of if but when the jar system blows up. I've heard of it too many times and seen it for myself with a friends system. As long as you can keep it away from the exhaust manifold PVC is much more durable. The one major complaint about not being able to monitor the water level in PVC is resolved by putting in a sight tube on the side. You can see what I mean about the sight tube on the Punch HHO site. Look in the video gallery and view the setup on the Punch 2.0. Good luck with your build and keep us posted.
 






Thanks for the info. What I mean by the glass jar method is the wet cell, not the dry, which from what it sounds like, has less of a chance of bursting and there is no nedd for a bubbler.

-Marc

The jar and PVC methods are wet cells and have the bad reputation of blowing up. dry cell is the safest but like albi said, use schedule 40 pvc pipe for your wet cell. so when/if it goes "boom" it MIGHT just pop a hose off instead of the whole pipe causing a huge mess.

ALL HHO systems should be running a bubbler or flashback arrestor. no exception.

keep us posted :)
 






I've got an idea for the glass jars, if I use them. How about putting some type of rubber boot or spraying bedliner on it to better protect from damage and if it did explode, it would probably be contained within the rubber.

-Marc
 






That might work, but be careful that you don't let the cells get hot because the rubber or bedliner material will hold the heat in and compound the problem. Let us know how it goes.
 






How about if I put a heat sink around the jars?

Also, I have collected alot of information on hydrogen fuel systems- home made, instructions, ones you can purchase, and I want to make sense to them. I will try the jar method first on my camry and then probably imrpove to PVC, ABS, or a dry cell.

What exactly do I need to make the jar method of Hydrogen systems. I know jars, not sure how many? I'm looking for a list of materials with all the required specifications, kind of like the water4gas manual. A diagram of some kind would also help out. Any info would be greatly appreciated. I'll try and see if my dad would want to help me also, he might be good in some areas.

-Marc
 






i dont think its a matter of the jars heating up to a point they break. its just them moving around and hitting bumps in the road or that one unexpected pot hole or rock that you hit that will jar (no pun intended lol) the jars and break them.
if its going on a little camry you might get away with only 4 jars but would recomend 6.
the main other thing you need is stainless steel wire and the plexiglass. ask at home depot or a local hardware store that sells it and see if they have any broke pieces because the sizes are going to nees are slim. not window size.
you will need lots of hose, hose barb "T"s, wire, and stainless wire. im pretty bad at explaining. the best i can really do is point you to the water4gas site.
If you have a specific question maybe i can answer it better.
good luck and keep us posted!
 






. . . And yes amps relate to how much draw you need from your alternator to produce the HHO. The standard rule of thumb I believe is a 1/4 LPM for every liter of engine displacement. I just installed mine and I am currently getting 2 LPM at about 20 amps with no noticeable effect on the alternator. . .

20 amps x 14 volts = 280 watts/746 = .37 horsepower
How much has your fuel economy improved to offset the increased load on your engine?
 






I did check out water4gas.com, but I don't think they have much free info and I didn't really want to spend $100 on a couple of manuals unless I had too.

-Marc
 






Actually, I did some more searching on water4gas.com and I was able to find the list of most if not all the parts needed for the hho system and there is a discriptive diagram with the parts' names.

What size mason jar can should I use? I have 4 16oz. jars and 6 32oz. jars. Because you guys recommended 6 jars, I figured 3 jars with the same capacity would do fine. That's only if you used the 16oz, for your sytems.

-Marc
 






any ideas with the jars?

-Marc
 



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Actually, I did some more searching on water4gas.com and I was able to find the list of most if not all the parts needed for the hho system and there is a discriptive diagram with the parts' names.

What size mason jar can should I use? I have 4 16oz. jars and 6 32oz. jars. Because you guys recommended 6 jars, I figured 3 jars with the same capacity would do fine. That's only if you used the 16oz, for your sytems.

-Marc

any ideas yet on the recommended jar size? I'm in no rush to do this project because of alot of other obligations, but I'd still like to know for when I start continue this project.

-Marc
 






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