Need help bad - going nutz and broke!!!

[msouders88]

One thing I did notice when I spun that wheel when jacked up it sounded like the auto hubs teeth were kind of touching the spline kind of sound - so I have an old gutted auto hub I stuck on to see if that may be the problem and the noise was still there - everything works fine as far as the 4WD and all, though that side had a problem disengaging that wheel after being in 4WD one time a month ago seemed like it was stuck when trying to pull out of my driveway (in 2WD) and before I could react - BANG!! it let loose but all seemed well and never bothered with looking into it.

 

[msouders88]

There are no boots of any kind under that truck - at least none that I can see, where am I looking?

 

[joe doe]

well mines newer,but any 4 wheel drive needs a driveshaft to each wheel.just crawl under up front and look at the wheel on that side .should be a shaft running to it to drive it .that shaft should have a boot on it .

it doesnt have a solid shaft does it?i dont think it would.removing that shaft is no small job so maybe as a last resort kinda deal.or if you can get it on a lift and spin the wheel while you listen at the shaft for noises.

just poking at possibilities here.

 

[msouders88]

I have a first gen explorer - no boots under there to my knoweledge

 

[joe doe]

so they have a solid shaft up front then eh?hhmmmmm
even if you would remove the front driveshaft the front differential would still be spinning when you drive so i doubt that would help.

have you checked into ford tsb bulletins?see if theres anything related?
wish i could help ya more but diagnoses over the internet is a toughie

 

[msouders88]

I do have a shaft that goes to the wheels and can see the knuckle (looks like a really big U-joint and it is all tight) I can turn the shaft until it locks into my hub which is why I am confused since they only turn when I engage 4x4 - I do not know how the newer explorers are set up but mine looks very simple to tear down. My spindle is hollow and the bearings ride on a stationary part - then the output shaft comes through the spindle to engage into the auto hub and can only work to my understanding when the transfer case is activated - if that is not how it works then someone please explain - I will post som pics, BRB

 

[KPSquared]

Joe Doe - You have a 2000 which is TOTALLY different under the front end than a first Gen Ex like this one. You have IFS, this has TTB...not even close to the same thing.

msouders88 - If you can grab your tie rod and move it with little or no effort, chances are, your one or more of your tie rod ends are shot. That being said, that will not cause a vibration or a growl like you speak of.

If you have two empty auto hubs, put them on both sides and see if that helps. Make sure the transfer case is actually disengaging when you put it in 2WD. Make sure the hubs are actually disengaging if you don't have 2 dummy hubs to put on there. If you're sure you are completely in 2WD, NOTHING should be turning. Not the front driveshaft, and nothing in the differential. Just the hubs on the spindles.

What kind of shape are your spindles in? Were they inspected when you had the hubs/rotors off?

If it is still growling with that all done, it almost has to be your wheel bearings. I know you put new rotors and bearings on so then I have to ask, what is your set-up procedure for your new bearings? Why did you have to replace them after such a short time?

 

[msouders88]

spindles are in great shape - I replaced the bearings to try and get rid of noise just as a shot in the dark, I take everything apart, clean it really good, while I am busy with everthing else I have the auto hubs soaking in gas and once squeaky clean after a couple cans of brakekleen fill with trans fluid ///// now when I instal the new bearings I seat them to 35-40ftlbs while turning the rotor and then back of a quarter turn then hand tighten install keyway, and everything else, oh- I do pack the bearings with Valvoline bearing grease for ford and mercs

 

[joe doe]

a copy n paste
just a fyi

Locking Hubs
Each wheel in a car is bolted to a hub. Part-time four-wheel-drive trucks usually have locking hubs on the front wheels. When four-wheel drive is not engaged, the locking hubs are used to disconnect the front wheels from the front differential, half-shafts (the shafts that connect the differential to the hub) and driveshaft. This allows the differential, half-shafts and driveshaft to stop spinning when the car is in two-wheel drive, saving wear and tear on those parts and improving fuel-economy.

Manual locking hubs used to be quite common. To engage four-wheel drive, the driver actually had to get out of the truck and turn a knob on the front wheels until the hubs locked. Newer systems have automatic locking hubs that engage when the driver switches into four-wheel drive. This type of system can usually be engaged while the vehicle is moving.

Whether manual or automatic, these systems generally use a sliding collar that locks the front half-shafts to the hub.

Advanced Electronics

 

[msouders88]

How would I check my rear wheel bearings - I do know sound can travel and be misleading as to where it is coming from

 

[Glen4X4]

Have you tried cleaning up the auto hubs? There is a section on here telling how to properly clean them but this sounds more like a bearing issue, have you made sure the 4wd axle nuts are tight? If you don't have a socket you can take a flat head screw driver and tap with a hammer to see if they're tight just be careful not the b*tch the nuts up.

 

[msouders88]

I copied and pasted this from joe doe - this is what I understand, I am going to go out and jack it up and spin the fronts to see if anthing is catching or partially engaged

When four-wheel drive is not engaged, the locking hubs are used to disconnect the front wheels from the front differential, half-shafts (the shafts that connect the differential to the hub) and driveshaft. This allows the differential, half-shafts and driveshaft to stop spinning when the car is in two-wheel drive

 

[msouders88]

I have the 2-3/8" socket and a torque wrench bought specifically for this truck.

 

[Glen4X4]

Just a suggestion whenever you can afford it I would just go to a jy and convert your truck to having manual hubs they are much simpler and more dependable. I had done that to both my 1st gens.

 

[msouders88]

I know it Glen - I want them bad, Savin up for a set - these auto hubs work good but I like simplicity - if the truck can get dirty so can I!!

 

[KPSquared]

On the off chance that your auto hubs are not properly disengaging, put dummies on both sides and see if that help. There are u-joints on your axle shafts that can cause quite a ruckus if they are bad. There are two on your passenger side so if the hub is leaving things connected, it can still spin the axle shafts and if those joints were bad, cause your vibration.

The 2WD thing is confusing to me for sure. If you are actually in 2WD, the ONLY thing that is moving are the bearings on the spindle, and the rotors through the pads...thats it. Like I said, put dummy hubs on both sides or get a set of manuals so you know for sure you're in 2WD.

An easy way to check is to put it in 2WD and then have someone look underneath when you move ahead. The font driveshaft should NOT be moving at all...

 

[msouders88]

I have checked all that stuff - I just had my buddy up the street come along for a ride and he says it sounds like tires and that he can really feel it in the passenger floor all but directly center below the glove box - then we swithched and I sat there which is the first time since "THE NOISE" started and he said the truck handles good but does not react the same way steering to the left vs right and said that it feels like the right tire wants to pull it to the right but the other tire wont let it so they are fighting each other and that is why I dont have a hard pull , when we got back I wanted a second opinion from another Ford guy, (he has a real nice rig) so we jacked it and put it on jackstands and he got a pry bar to check ball joints (all good there he said) - then he did the side to side first a little bit on both sides to rule out bearings and said all was well with them, then he went side to side hard and said something just does not sit right with him, he thinks it is tie rods and ends because of the way my drag ling just flops around like a fish with all the weight off the wheels (he could push it around with his finger) ---- so looks like I am going to throw that at it next

 

[KPSquared]

If your drag link "flops around" your TRE's are done. Replace them and then see if it helps. I can't see a bad TRE causing the vibration but I suppose it could. Have you had an alignment done by a qualified shop? They would never do one if your had bad TRE's. You got me stumped man.

Just as a thought, have you checked the rear driveshaft u-joints? and rear bearings? If it does it in 2WD and you're totally sure it's in 2WD, the next thing to look at is from the t-case/tranny back. Make sure those u-joints are good. You pretty much have to pull the driveshaft to know for sure. They can feel good when you rotate the shaft but then you get it down and they can be dry and tight (thats never good...) I don't know, just trying to narrow it down.

 

[Drednaut]

Would a bad or worn tie rod end maybe cause one tire to want to track different than the other causing this type of noise. And how easily should the tie rod move when rotated - mine moves with little or no effort but does not seem to have end play.

a bad or out of align tie rod end will cause exessive toe witch is the worst kinda of tire wear my van had alotta exissive toe and it went through a set of tires in a year and a half

 

[msouders88]

Well guys it really is not a vibration as much as it is the feel of the noise - it feels like aggressive tire tread in the wheel (only when the noise is present) otherwise smooth- never thought about the drive shaft, but why would it go away steering to the right if it was the U-joints and the sound does not change with engine load and it does it the same in neutral and low gears. Had it aligned about a year ago after ball joints, radius arm bushings and new tires and shocks - guess the TRE's just finally gave up with no warning or maybe I hit a bump just right (the speed bumps where I live are insane, had to get rid of my T-bird because I could not drive over them without draging the trans pan and exhaust)