Miles on your rig with timing chain rattle

[buddychan]

Like alot of other Ford owners, my 2002 Ford Explorer has a pinging/rattle noise between 2K - 3K RPM.

It started to make this sound soon after my purchase at 70K and it now has 120K.

My question is how many more miles will it last before the engine seizes?

If you have the timing chain rattle, how many miles are on your car?

Thanks.

 

[Ilikemice]

I had 120k on mine before I had the chains replaced. The rattle was always there but over the last few weeks it got much much worse, and the final 120 miles to the garage made it reeeeeally bad. Glad I got it done.

 

[bluestream1]

If you are talking about the primary chain rattle around 2800 RPM cold, it can go a long time. Most of the OEM primary chain tensioners are shot and the chain is just slapping around. I have not seen one post here where that tensioner was in serviceable condition when the engine was dismantled. Still it should be replaced along with the chain and sprockets.

The cam timing chains are another story...

 

[buddychan]

Great call out on the different failures. I do not know where the failure is because the dealer was unable to diagnose properly. They thought it was the heat shield that was rattling while the other mechanic thought the timing rattle only is presence on start up. Wasted my money taking it to them.

My symptoms are it rattles/pings regardless of whether it's cold or hot. There are times when the noise is loud and there are times when you can barely hear it.

I hope despite the rattle noises, the rig will continue to run for a long time!

 

[ThePhoenix]

i'm at 127 with a chain rattle since 94k

 

[eqppwqqep]

I'm at 117K with the rattle between 2500-3k
Been there since I bought the thing with 52K

I know I know, playing with fire. The thing is, it hasn't gotten any worse, and the radio gets plenty loud.

 

[buddychan]

Are you guys planning on keeping your car? Sell it? Fix it?

 

[eqppwqqep]

Are you guys planning on keeping your car? Sell it? Fix it?

I spent a whole day on here about a year ago looking for an example of a 2002 that had rattle and died. I couldn't find one.

I bought it in 2006 with the rattle....Put many miles on it in the four years I have owned it, and the worst thing that has happened is the need to replace all four wheel bearing in a 6 month period. That repair was approximately $1200, which was a good deal.

I'm not pulling the engine to replace those tensioners. Everytime I get an oil change, it stops rattling until about 1500 miles into the new oil. If it dies, it dies, but I am confident my truck will roll on for a little while longer.

 

[buddychan]

Eqppwqqep,

Thanks for your input. I think I will perform the 120K and hope for the best.

 

[bluestream1]

I bought my Truck with 62,000 miles on it and it had primary chain rattle (2500-2800RPM) when I bought it, It now has 142K on it. It is much worse when cold, and way worse in the winter. I have never found a reason why the primary chain rattle is louder when the engine is cold. This noise is more annoying than anything else. It is also the easiest to fix, as only the front covers have to come off. You can do a quick repair with out cam timing by replacing the primary chain guide and tensioner only. I would say while you are in, you may as well do the chain and sprockets as well. These chains will stretch over time, and they may be a bit weaker due to the fact that the OEM tensioner (the 3 leaf one) is not really doesn't do anything. As far as I know the 2002 has the same weak 3 leaf tensioner as the older SOHC engines.

The two cam chains on the other hand will rattle on start up, and also when a guide or tensioner has failed. The right (rear) seems to be the weakest as the guide has one side that is all plastic on the traction side. When these fail, you will get engine noise and you are living on borrowed time, I would not continue to use vehicle. They can also have a catastrophic failure and you have instant engine damage when the valves and piston make contact. As you rack up the miles the failure of these cam chain guides becomes more likely.

 

[eqppwqqep]

So how do you know which set are failing? Mine has made the same noise for 4 years. How difficult is it to pull the timing cover? You have to pull the exhaust manifolds and the head covers, right?

 

[bluestream1]

I would say that if you have an intermittent rattle around 2500-2800 that is primary timing chain rattle. Cam chains with broken guides or failed tensioners should rattle all the time. (rattle or more likely make noise)

There are some excellent posts by streetrod2000 on this subject that should be in the stickies

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2419107

 

[eqppwqqep]

I would say that if you have an intermittent rattle around 2500-2800 that is primary timing chain rattle. Cam chains with broken guides or failed tensioners should rattle all the time. (rattle or more likely make noise)

There are some excellent posts by streetrod2000 on this subject that should be in the stickies

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2419107

Don't mean to hijack. So if I only have rattle at 2500-2800 RPM, then it's simply the primary chain.

It's fairly easy to understand why some of us choose not to have the tensioners replaced. Considering I assumed the faulty chains required a completely pull of the engine, I just assumed I would replace the entire engine if I had a complete failure. I was surprised mine lasted. Howerver, if it is simply the primary chain, maybe that explains this? I thought there was a TSB for tensioner replacement a while ago, maybe the previous owners had that TSB performed and only my primary chain is faulting? Is this still as serious? 60,000 miles argues with the logic that a mechanical failure is guaranteed.

 

[buddychan]

I bought my Truck with 62,000 miles on it and it had primary chain rattle (2500-2800RPM) when I bought it, It now has 142K on it. It is much worse when cold, and way worse in the winter. I have never found a reason why the primary chain rattle is louder when the engine is cold. This noise is more annoying than anything else. It is also the easiest to fix, as only the front covers have to come off. You can do a quick repair with out cam timing by replacing the primary chain guide and tensioner only. I would say while you are in, you may as well do the chain and sprockets as well. These chains will stretch over time, and they may be a bit weaker due to the fact that the OEM tensioner (the 3 leaf one) is not really doesn't do anything. As far as I know the 2002 has the same weak 3 leaf tensioner as the older SOHC engines.

The two cam chains on the other hand will rattle on start up, and also when a guide or tensioner has failed. The right (rear) seems to be the weakest as the guide has one side that is all plastic on the traction side. When these fail, you will get engine noise and you are living on borrowed time, I would not continue to use vehicle. They can also have a catastrophic failure and you have instant engine damage when the valves and piston make contact. As you rack up the miles the failure of these cam chain guides becomes more likely.

Did you replace your primary chain? Noises are intermittent and usually occurs between 2K to 3K RPM. Can we continue to drive for many more miles with this symptom/problem?

 

[bluestream1]

Did you replace your primary chain? Noises are intermittent and usually occurs between 2K to 3K RPM. Can we continue to drive for many more miles with this symptom/problem?

I have not yet replaced my primary chain, but I have the parts kit, and my truck is currently sitting in my garage waiting for me to get time to start on it. Unfortunately I have run into some other things that have taken priority. I have driven for 6 years with it, and have decided that I need to finally get it done. There are Some great post are on this site, so that should make it easier.

 

[eagles350]

I have 136k on mine & I plan on ripping it out this weekend. I bought a kit with everything in it so I'm replacing it all.

 

[bluestream1]

I have 136k on mine & I plan on ripping it out this weekend. I bought a kit with everything in it so I'm replacing it all.

Eagles, it would be nice to see a picture of what your primary chain tensioner looks like after 136K

 

[Faster Life]

I have the rattle as well, but mine shows up randomly, mostly during a cold start. Sometimes I don't hear it however. My rattle is mostly present during idle, but after a few minutes of warm up, the sound fades a bit.

Anyway, what is the typical cost for repair? I do a lot of work myself, but this is probably beyond me. It's rattled from 90k to present at 130k. Besides the rattle, my engine is strong. Never burns oil, and when the oil is replaced it's clean. I want to keep this vehicle going as long as I can...

 

[Faster Life]

A

 

[bluestream1]

I have the rattle as well, but mine shows up randomly, mostly during a cold start. Sometimes I don't hear it however. My rattle is mostly present during idle, but after a few minutes of warm up, the sound fades a bit.

Anyway, what is the typical cost for repair? I do a lot of work myself, but this is probably beyond me. It's rattled from 90k to present at 130k. Besides the rattle, my engine is strong. Never burns oil, and when the oil is replaced it's clean. I want to keep this vehicle going as long as I can...

Cost would depend on where you go. My dealer quoted $1500 for primary chain kit install. Problem is what other issues get found once the job starts. Like balance shaft tensioner and guide. That means even more money, or do you just leave it and do half a job?