First Service

[lexrid]

Story time, nothing earth shattering, just wanted to share my experience. It was time, actually well past time to get the Explorer in to the dealership for the first service. We've got a 2011 Limited with about 7,100 miles. I monitor (lurk around) the forums quite often so I've seen all of the threads about the various issues, tsb's, etc. So I had a pretty nice list of items prepared that I wanted the dealership to look at while they had the car. Here's the list:

1. Oil Change/1st service/Tire Rotation – we have Premium Maintenance plan
2. MFT Upgrade – Still on v2.8 and it works pretty well most of the time. Lets wait on this until the major release and not risk a buggy v2.11 upgrade.
3. Paint Issue – Appears that spots were missed on the center of the hood at the factory. You can see a bunch of tiny spots where there is no silver paint.
4. Hood Alignment Issue – Appears to be off center, can this be corrected?
5. Brake Squeak Issue – Brakes squeak at low speeds, for example, when slowing down to a complete stop at a red light. (TSB 11-10-29)
6. Bluetooth Microphone Noise – Significant road noise/background noise when in use.
7. Roof Rain Noise Issue – Anytime it rains the roof between the top of the windshield to the moonroof sounds like rain hitting a tin can.
8. A-Pillar Appliques Rattle/Buzz Issue – At speeds 55mph+ the plastic A-Pillar pieces rattle and buzz. Happens especially when driving in crosswinds. (TSB 12-1-11)
9. Random Auto Wiper Swipe – Rain sensing wipers will make random occasional swipes in perfect weather. Seems to happen most often when driving from sunny spots into shaded spots and vice versa. (TSB 11-11-12)
10. Greasy Streaks on Windows Issue – Anytime you roll down or up the front windows it leaves a greasy streak. (TSB 11-10-9)
11. Front Door Blackout Film Issue – Blackout film(sticker) used on the front doors between the A-Pillar and the window is wrinkled at the bottom near where it meets the mirror. (TSB 11-10-14)

After waiting 2 weeks for a loaner to become available, my wife dropped the car off Monday afternoon. I sent this list to the service adviser at the dealership. He looked over the list and of course added the disclaimer of "I know you were very thorough in putting this list together, however, if we can't reproduce these issues, we can't do anything with them." He then added "we've seen these on most of the Explorers that come through here, so we'll do what we can."

Got a message on Tuesday saying that the car was going to the body shop to correct the paint issues and that they ordered the parts they needed to correct the other issues. He did not list the specific issues they were fixing. He said I'd get a call on Thursday with an update.

Thursday evenings call, hood was repainted, would be buffed out this morning (Friday morning). They also had all of the parts they needed to correct the TSB's and the car should be done Friday.

So, far it's been a pretty decent experience, however, I still find it pretty unfortunate that I have to compile a list of 10 seemingly small, detail items to be corrected on a brand new $45,000 car.

Here we are Friday, I'm just waiting for word the car is ready to pick up. I'll add an update this weekend with more detail about exactly what items they corrected and which ones they haven't. I am going to look the car over very well before I drive it away today.

 

[suzook]

Unfortunately that's what you get for the 1st year of a new design of any car. I have a December built 2012, and am glad to report have none of the issues that are routinely posted on the forum. Good luck with the fixes.

 

[peterk9]

Any follow up news on the dealership visit?

 

[lexrid]

Called them Friday evening, car was still at the body shop for the hood repaint. They wanted to keep it and make sure the paint was completely good to go before they started any of the other repairs. They were hoping to fix all the TSB's and other issues today.

Fast forward to this afternoon. I got a call from the service adviser, they were fixes the other items and the tech noticed an issue with the clear coat on the freshly painted hood, like debris in the clear coat or something. The service adviser said he didn't like the way it looked so he'd have to take it back to the body shop on Monday. So, now he's hoping it'll be done sometime on Monday.

I asked for some clarification of exactly what they were able to reproduce, therefore able to fix. He said, everything from my list was being fixed/addressed. We'll see when we finally get it back.

 

[peterk9]

Called them Friday evening, car was still at the body shop for the hood repaint. They wanted to keep it and make sure the paint was completely good to go before they started any of the other repairs. They were hoping to fix all the TSB's and other issues today.

Fast forward to this afternoon. I got a call from the service adviser, they were fixes the other items and the tech noticed an issue with the clear coat on the freshly painted hood, like debris in the clear coat or something. The service adviser said he didn't like the way it looked so he'd have to take it back to the body shop on Monday. So, now he's hoping it'll be done sometime on Monday.

I asked for some clarification of exactly what they were able to reproduce, therefore able to fix. He said, everything from my list was being fixed/addressed. We'll see when we finally get it back.

I wonder why the body shop people didn't pick that up.
Back in the late 60's I had a blue '64 Cadillac Sedan de Ville that I took in to be repainted. When I went to pick it up they noticed that there were spots all over it. One of the body shop guys parked it outside before the paint had completely hardened and there was a light rain. They had to completely repaint it.
Good luck.

Peter

 

[lexrid]

I wonder why the body shop people didn't pick that up.
Back in the late 60's I had a blue '64 Cadillac Sedan de Ville that I took in to be repainted. When I went to pick it up they noticed that there were spots all over it. One of the body shop guys parked it outside before the paint had completely hardened and there was a light rain. They had to completely repaint it.
Good luck.

Peter

Yeah, I'm really hoping the hood doesn't end up looking worse than it did before...I will say I'm pretty impressed by the tech and the service adviser picking up on this stuff and not just saying screw it, give it back and see if the customer notices.

 

[lexrid]

Update: Car was supposed to be ready every day since Saturday. I just was told, "it will definitely be ready tomorrow." We'll see. After they finally got the hood paint/clear coat issue resolved, it was down to the blackout film, which I'll call stickers that were bubbled on the front doors down by the mirrors.

Apparently they didn't realize until yesterday that the service folks weren't going to be able to get the old sticker off easily. So, they said the car needed to go back to the body shop to let them do it. They called this morning at 9 and said, the car is ready to go, but before you get here, I'll be looking it all over one last time. 9:30 I get a call, while they were looking the car over again, they found what appear to be a scratch in the paint above the sticker.

Car is back at the body shop, removing the sticker they just put on. Apparently to fix the scratch, they've got to remove it. They've ordered new stickers that will be there in the morning. So, they're fixing paint this afternoon/evening and putting on the new stickers in the morning.

He also told me that they weren't really sure how or if there was a fix for the tin can rain sound, so their was nothing they could do about that right now.

I have to commend them for really looking this stuff over closely before giving the car back, but c'mon already. I'm starting to question the work of the body shop they use since it seems like anything they've touched has needed to be redone.

Hopefully after a week and a half, we'll have the car back tomorrow.

 

[BCMC]

Update: Car was supposed to be ready every day since Saturday. I just was told, "it will definitely be ready tomorrow." We'll see. After they finally got the hood paint/clear coat issue resolved, it was down to the blackout film, which I'll call stickers that were bubbled on the front doors down by the mirrors.

Apparently they didn't realize until yesterday that the service folks weren't going to be able to get the old sticker off easily. So, they said the car needed to go back to the body shop to let them do it. They called this morning at 9 and said, the car is ready to go, but before you get here, I'll be looking it all over one last time. 9:30 I get a call, while they were looking the car over again, they found what appear to be a scratch in the paint above the sticker.

Car is back at the body shop, removing the sticker they just put on. Apparently to fix the scratch, they've got to remove it. They've ordered new stickers that will be there in the morning. So, they're fixing paint this afternoon/evening and putting on the new stickers in the morning.

He also told me that they weren't really sure how or if there was a fix for the tin can rain sound, so their was nothing they could do about that right now.

I have to commend them for really looking this stuff over closely before giving the car back, but c'mon already. I'm starting to question the work of the body shop they use since it seems like anything they've touched has needed to be redone.

Hopefully after a week and a half, we'll have the car back tomorrow.

Geez, you're far more patient than I would be! This type of work needs to be thorough, and that's understood. But Good Lord! How long does it take?! They can't be THAT inundated with work, can they??

Just because they keep a vehicle that long, doesn't necessarily mean they are being that exhaustive in their efforts.. it merely makes for good PR when they can say, "Hey, we've kept it this long because we've been slaving over every minutia to get it perfect!" There are 8-10 working hours in a day at a dealership..

Then again, I'm just pessimisstic when it comes to the stealerships...

 

[lexrid]

Geez, you're far more patient than I would be! This type of work needs to be thorough, and that's understood. But Good Lord! How long does it take?! They can't be THAT inundated with work, can they??

Just because they keep a vehicle that long, doesn't necessarily mean they are being that exhaustive in their efforts.. it merely makes for good PR when they can say, "Hey, we've kept it this long because we've been slaving over every minutia to get it perfect!" There are 8-10 working hours in a day at a dealership..

Then again, I'm just pessimisstic when it comes to the stealerships...

12 hour working days at this particular dealership. Patience is not something that comes to me naturally, so I'm attempting to just block this all out rather than get worked up over it and lose my patience.

I'm pessimistic as well, but I'm trying to give them the benefit of the doubt as this is the first service visit with this particular dealership. I'm going to call them shortly. If its not going to be ready today, I might start losing it.

 

[lexrid]

Here we go...finally got the car back last night. I can honestly say, this is the first time I've ever gotten the car back from a service appointment with it in worse condition than I took it in. To be fair, it seems like it's been the body shop that has screwed everything up, but it's the body shop that the dealer uses, so I'm not letting them off the hook either. My service adviser calls it a work in process because I made him very aware of the issues still to be addressed, but they already had the car for 2 weeks.

All of these observations are based on looking over the car at the dealership and then driving it home. I looked it over again once I got it home, but haven't really put everything to the test yet. I'll detail out each item below.

[*]Oil Change/1st service/Tire Rotation – we have Premium Maintenance plan

Done, no issues to speak of. They also plugged a tire that had a screw in it and was losing air.

MFT Upgrade – Still on v2.8 and it works pretty well most of the time. Lets wait on this until the major release and not risk a buggy v2.11 upgrade.

They ended up flashing the APIM per TSB 11-7-24 and updating to v2.11. It appears they did this in an attempt to fix the bluetooth mic noise. In my 30 minute drive home from the dealer, no issues.

Paint Issue – Appears that spots were missed on the center of the hood at the factory. You can see a bunch of tiny spots where there is no silver paint.

They couldn't fix just the spots, so they repainted the hood...TWICE. The first time there was stuff in the clearcoat and the service adviser wasn't happy with it. However, I noticed and pointed out multiple scratches and stuff actually in the paint and it looks like they'll be painting it again. The bigger disappointment than the specs in the paint is the fact that on the passenger side, they've managed to put some pretty serious scratches and scuffs on the painted bumper as well as the black plastic. It looks terrible. I'm not sure if they were leaning on the car there or cords from buffers kept dragging on the paint, but my thought is, if as a body shop your job is to make cars look perfect (or near perfect) how can you scratch the paint like that and just let it go.

Hood Alignment Issue – Appears to be off center, can this be corrected?

They realigned the hood. Looks fine.

Brake Squeak Issue – Brakes squeak at low speeds, for example, when slowing down to a complete stop at a red light. (TSB 11-10-29)

Claimed they couldn't reproduce this one, therefore didn't do anything with it. Only thing that said is per their system "it is normal for some brake squeal due to humidity and or low brake pad temperature". Not buying it. I'll reproduce it and they'll get the car back for this one.

Bluetooth Microphone Noise – Significant road noise/background noise when in use.

See comments about Sync/MFT upgrade above. Haven't used this yet, but based on comments I've read, their actions with the upgrade haven't helped others.

Roof Rain Noise Issue – Anytime it rains the roof between the top of the windshield to the moonroof sounds like rain hitting a tin can.

TSB was just released yesterday morning. I let them know about it. They had to order the correct foam for the repair. This will be addressed when the car goes back in.

A-Pillar Appliques Rattle/Buzz Issue – At speeds 55mph+ the plastic A-Pillar pieces rattle and buzz. Happens especially when driving in crosswinds. (TSB 12-1-11)

They replaced the A-Pillars with new ones. As others have noted, the new ones have a rubber strip that runs along the inside edge by the windshield, presumably to keep air from getting under them. Didn't notice any noise driving home, but it's supposed to be windy here this weekend, I'll take it out on the highway and see how they do.

Random Auto Wiper Swipe – Rain sensing wipers will make random occasional swipes in perfect weather. Seems to happen most often when driving from sunny spots into shaded spots and vice versa. (TSB 11-11-12)

Could only reproduce this once, but weren't sure how they did it. Just replaced the sensor per the TSB. Haven't been in a situation, from sun to shade to test this one yet.

Greasy Streaks on Windows Issue – Anytime you roll down or up the front windows it leaves a greasy streak. (TSB 11-10-9)

Performed the TSB repair on this. I'm going to clean the windows real good today and then take a look at this. I did notice that they didn't put the passenger door panel back on correctly because there's a big gap between the window and door panel now. I'll have them fix this when the car goes back in.

Front Door Blackout Film Issue – Blackout film(sticker) used on the front doors between the A-Pillar and the window is wrinkled at the bottom near where it meets the mirror. (TSB 11-10-14)

This is another one the body shop totally screwed up. They removed the old film and put the new on. However, they ended up scratching the silver paint above the driver door window significantly enough that they had to repaint a section of the door. Same story as the hood, stuff in the paint which doesn't make me happy and there are some bubbles in the film. I'll have them take a look at the paint when they look at the hood. I'll park the car in the sun and see if maybe that will warm up the film and force the bubbles out, otherwise they'll get to try again on that.

So there it is. There are a few of these things that were fairly minor that looking back I wish they hadn't even touched like the blackout film. Too late now. I'm going to look everything over very carefully this weekend and call Monday to set an appointment for the car to go back in. To be continued...

 

[lexrid]

Haven't updated in a while. Dropped the car back off almost two weeks ago. The body shop continues to screw up the paint, time after time. I went to the dealership at 7:30 this morning because they said the car was ready. Got there, and within 10 seconds picked out about 10 flaws in the paint on both the hood and the door. Some of them pretty blatant. They have now had the car for 4 weeks straight.

I'm going to demand a meeting with the service manager and the manager/owner of the body shop this afternoon. The car now qualifies for NC's Lemon Law.

Cory, I may need your assistance here...

 

[tmilicia]

Wow, what a debacle. I feel sorry for you that you and your Explorer have to go through this with a crappy body shop. I'd be so pissed right now, I'm not sure what I'd do. I've learned from the past to never mess with the factory paint on a new vehicle, it'll never be the same. At this point, I'd make them take it to a more reputable body shop and have it fixed out of their pocket since they obviously can't handle the job.

NC must have some pretty lax lemon laws if you can get a vehicle lemoned due to paint defects. That would never fly here in Ohio.

 

[peterk9]

Haven't updated in a while. Dropped the car back off almost two weeks ago. The body shop continues to screw up the paint, time after time. I went to the dealership at 7:30 this morning because they said the car was ready. Got there, and within 10 seconds picked out about 10 flaws in the paint on both the hood and the door. Some of them pretty blatant. They have now had the car for 4 weeks straight.

I'm going to demand a meeting with the service manager and the manager/owner of the body shop this afternoon. The car now qualifies for NC's Lemon Law.

Cory, I may need your assistance here...

Is this a Ford body shop? If there is another dealer in the area see if they use the same place. If not, I would go there and see if they can get it right and then take your future business there.

Peter

 

[lexrid]

This is a body shop next door to the Ford Dealership that they outsource all of their work to. I'm sure they'll offer a different body shop. They may eventually get the paint right, but that doesn't take care of the overspray issues that I'm sure are there, etc. Nothing raises questions for resale like overspray and indications of parts being painted.

Wow, what a debacle. I feel sorry for you that you and your Explorer have to go through this with a crappy body shop. I'd be so pissed right now, I'm not sure what I'd do. I've learned from the past to never mess with the factory paint on a new vehicle, it'll never be the same. At this point, I'd make them take it to a more reputable body shop and have it fixed out of their pocket since they obviously can't handle the job.

NC must have some pretty lax lemon laws if you can get a vehicle lemoned due to paint defects. That would never fly here in Ohio.

I wish I had never mentioned the paint issue to them. Actually, I wish they had adivsed not to touch the paint. However, this still wouldn't have solved the issue with them repainting part of the door because they scratched it pretty badly in the blackout film repair. It would have only saved the hood from getting botched.

NC's law states:

Your car may be covered by the Lemon Law if all of the following have happened:

* The problem occurs in some part of the vehicle that is covered by the manufacturer's warranty and you are within the warranty period. It does not need to be something that keeps you from being able to drive the car. For example, faulty air conditioning or peeling paint could be considered defects under the Lemon Law.
* You tell the manufacturer about the problem in writing and give them a reasonable period, but not more than 15 days, to fix it.
* The manufacturer makes “a reasonable number of attempts” to fix the vehicle. This means that the car has been repaired for the same problem four or more times, or that it has been out of service a cumulative total of 20 or more business days during a 12 month period of the warranty.
* The manufacturers’ efforts to fix the lemon fail. Under the law, they must either replace your car or buy it back. You get to decide between a comparable new car and a refund.

 

[FordService]

...I'm going to demand a meeting with the service manager and the manager/owner of the body shop this afternoon. The car now qualifies for NC's Lemon Law.

Cory, I may need your assistance here...

lexrid,

I can assist by arranging a call from the Customer Service Manager in your region, but I’m not a lawyer, so I can’t help with lemon law advice. For me to set up the call, please PM your contact information, VIN, dealer name/state, and approximate mileage.

Cory

 

[lexrid]

Thanks, Cory. I will PM you the details shortly.

The service adviser just called me. He says that he met with the service manager and also the regional manager for the body shop. He says the body shop manager has acknowledged these issues and has asked for one more shot. Apparently, Ford will only pay warranty claims if this body shop does the work. So, the adviser wants this body shop to get another try now with the regional manager overseeing the repair. If they still can't get it right, they'll use a new body shop. I have expressed my concern with this body shop and that I'm not confident that this, being the 5th or 6th attempt they'll be able to get it right.

They've asked if I want to pick up the car for the weekend and bring it back Monday or just keep the loaner. I'm torn. I really want the Ex back, but the principal of the deal, why should I take a flawed car back just to have to drop it off again on Monday.

I've also expressed my displeasure with paying pretty handsomely each month for this car that I haven't had in 4 weeks and won't really have back for some time while they continue to try and get this right. They've not offered much consolation or any compensation for this time without my car and major hassle. Each time I mention it they brush it off.

Maybe contact from Cory will show them that I'm starting to bring others into this mess.

This sucks.

 

[lexrid]

lexrid,

I can assist by arranging a call from the Customer Service Manager in your region, but I’m not a lawyer, so I can’t help with lemon law advice. For me to set up the call, please PM your contact information, VIN, dealer name/state, and approximate mileage.

Cory

Cory, PM just sent. Thanks.

 

[cnsheets]

My question, Are they just adding layer after layer of paint to the existing hood increasing the mil thickness or are they sanding down or stripping the old paint and re-doing it? Maybe they should pull the hood completely, bead blast it, and start from scratch. If they are just adding layer after layer, I would think that at some point you might start having fit or alignment issues due to the increased thickness of paint. It may not make much of a difference on the hood, but still.......

 

[lexrid]

My question, Are they just adding layer after layer of paint to the existing hood increasing the mil thickness or are they sanding down or stripping the old paint and re-doing it? Maybe they should pull the hood completely, bead blast it, and start from scratch. If they are just adding layer after layer, I would think that at some point you might start having fit or alignment issues due to the increased thickness of paint. It may not make much of a difference on the hood, but still.......

They made it sound like the only spot they actually added base(color) is the center section of the hood that had the spots missing color. So I assume in order to do that, they had to at least get below the clear coat. So, I don't think they just continue to add layers. I think they keep having issues with the clear coat so they keep removing and reapplying the clear coat. Then after reapplying they have to buff, etc. So, I don't think that they're just continuing to add layer upon layer of each different step of primer, base, clear coat, etc. That being said, I know very little about the process of painting cars so I'm having to rely on the service adviser and body shop more than I want to.

Basically, it sounds like they keep trying to repair the flaws that are scattered around the hood rather than just blasting it down to sheet metal and starting over. Anyone with more paint experience have any thoughts/ideas/suggestions??

 

[VinceL]

Let them keep the car, maybe it'll count against the number of days out of service for the lemon law proceedings, if things get the bad.

Hope it all works out for you one way or another.