ETHANOL FUEL, good or bad?

[yeah61794]

You guys really should read the wikipedia article on ethanol fuel. It explains pretty much everything everyone is arguing about, lol.

In short, at least compared to the article, it has less energy per volume than gasoline,~35% less, but a higher octane rating. The higher octane rating allows you to run a higher compression ratio, increasing power, but only for those engines tuned to it ie you need bigger injectors, higher flowing fuel pump, higher compression ratio, etc to realize the benefits. If your engine isn't tuned to run e85 or an ethanol blend, then for sure your going to see a decrease in power as it has less energy per volume.

Along with less energy per volume as compared to gasoline, you also get a decrease in fuel economy. Although the decrease isn't necessarily 35% less running E100 compared to 100% gasoline, it can be more or less depending upon many conditions including the blend of the ethanol.

Ethanol fuels do indeed increase corrosion. Contaminants in the fuel are a large cause of this. These contaminants increase the corrosivity by attacking oxide films on some metals thus causing pitting corrosion. They also increase the electrical condutivity of the fuel thus encouraging corrosion as well. Some of the contaminants also can clog the fuel system over time.

However, most if not all of these issues should be taken care of by the engineers at Ford if your vehicle was designed to run E85, so if it says it can run E85, try it out and use common sense.

 

[Limited02]

Here's a link to a good read to learn more about E85-

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/distillery-374/

 

[JohnnyO]

If is is designed to run on E85 if will be fine, however even though it is cheaper you won't really save any money because the mpg is lower.

BG makes a fuel system cleaner and a fuel dryer that when used together will clean out the gunk that ethanol builds up. Service place used it on mine when it was running horribly, problem fixed and the CEL was gone.

 

[Dalmus]

Last year, I tried running E85 when it was about $.60 less per gallon than E10. Running regular E10, my average mpg is 19.2. Running E85, my average mpg over three full tanks was 15.5.

The reduced mileage negated the cost savings over E10.

Not to mention the many studies that have shown E85 is worse for the environment than E10.

 

[OffTrac]

At least ethanol comes from a non-environmentally-invasive source...oh, wait...nevermind.

 

[Teejay4490]

At least ethanol comes from a non-environmentally-invasive source...oh, wait...nevermind.

Lol, touche'

 

[waskly]

Better gas mileage, I never have to run fuel additives, burns better, makes more power, and keeps the engine cleaner

Say gas is 3.50 per gallon..

87- is 77$ per tank
89- is 79.20$ per tank
93- is 83.25$ per tank

Its only 6 dollars more but the added fuel economy and engine life make it worth it.

Ive used 93 in all of my vehicles and have had 3 of which go over 400,000 miles. Never used any fuel additive in them at all. Motors ran like champs up until they day I got rid of them.

just cause I am bored.

87/89/93 is IDENTICAL.... Same BTU/Detergents/Additives.

the only difference and this is the only thing that sets the grades apart, is flash point of the gas.

NOTHING ELSE.

 

[Teejay4490]

Whatever you say dude, You can put that **** in your car then.

 

[Dalmus]

just cause I am bored.

87/89/93 is IDENTICAL.... Same BTU/Detergents/Additives.

the only difference and this is the only thing that sets the grades apart, is flash point of the gas.

NOTHING ELSE.

Not having bothered to REALLY dig into it, but I always assumed that with higher octane, you would get marginally worse mileage because it burns (slightly) slower, yielding less power to the engine, making you step on the gas that fraction of a percent more.

 

[waskly]

Not having bothered to REALLY dig into it, but I always assumed that with higher octane, you would get marginally worse mileage because it burns (slightly) slower, yielding less power to the engine, making you step on the gas that fraction of a percent more.

no, since cars are designed to run on all 3 grades. you get no benefit besides when some engines ping on recommended fuels then you move one grade up to eliminate the ping.

As octane goes up, flash point goes up.

which means you need more spark, if the vehicle was not able to ignite the fuel, the engine would just simply not run. just flood. Once ignition can set off combustion. gas will burn effectively unlike a diesel.

 

[waskly]

Whatever you say dude, You can put that **** in your car then.

Myth: I buy premium grade gasoline because it has more and better additives to keep my injectors and valves clean.
Fact: All gasolines sold in the US are required by law to contain an additive that will keep injectors and valves clean. Tests are required and the additive must be licensed with EPA before it can be used. Most companies use the same amount of additive in all grades of their gasoline.

 

[turborich]

Some folks will never listen.

High octane fuel is only needed for high compression engines or older engines which have not been driven correctly and that have carbon build up on the piston tops & cylinder heads.

If your vehicle calls for 87 and you are using a higher octane you are simply tossing your money away. You will NOT see any power gains or MPG increases.

E85 is contains less energy vs gasoline and is less efficient. Your mileage will decrease with E85.

You can run E85 in a flex fuel vehicle and it will be just fine, but why would you? In the end it ends up costing the same amount. More money for gasoline or less mpg for E85. It's a wash. Mines a flex fuel engine and it's never seen E85.

 

[kworonowski]

I ran e85 in wifes car and 2nd tank fuel pump boom. Got new pump with e85 still in tank ran like crap (mileage power both down) Went back to reg gas never had issue since. E85 does have more octane and does run cleaner. However most engines still need reg gas every couple tanks so it doesn't burn up components internally. (e85 runs alot hotter than reg gas). Best of luck with whichever choice you make.

 

[OffTrac]

My '69 Cougar ran just fine for 40+ years without a rebuild on regular gas (even after they banned leaded). Can anybody confirm that an engine will last that long on E85? Coincidentally, before I knew what I was doing, I ran E10 in the engine for about a year while in college. Guess what project I'm working on now?

 

[Limited02]

I ran e85 in wifes car and 2nd tank fuel pump boom. Got new pump with e85 still in tank ran like crap (mileage power both down) Went back to reg gas never had issue since. E85 does have more octane and does run cleaner. However most engines still need reg gas every couple tanks so it doesn't burn up components internally. (e85 runs alot hotter than reg gas). Best of luck with whichever choice you make.

Are you sure about this? I've heard of guys that run high compression/boosted applications loving the fact that E85 runs cooler(like alcohol does), also that it's rated near 106 octane and allows more power to be had if you are tuned correctly for it.

For those of you saying you ran E85 in something and the mileage got worse, that is expected. I don't recall anyone here saying that gas mileage will improve. Secondly, if you ran E85-10 in something that was not designed/tuned for E85, than yes you are going to have problems.

I'm going to invite a knowledgeable fellow into this thread to help clean up some issues if he's willing.

 

[OffTrac]

Secondly, if you ran E85-10 in something that was not designed/tuned for E85, than yes you are going to have problems.

Most vehicles on the road today are not designed for E10. But who cares if the less-than-wealthy citizens' cars are destroyed?

 

[04sleeper]

I was asked to join this forum to dispel some myths and add some words.

I drive a 2004 Ford Explorer Eddie Bauer 4L V6 FLEX-Fuel.
I've been told that I shouldn't use Ethanol/E85 at all. My Owner's Manual tells me that I can. I do know that the fuel filter must be for both Unleaded and Ethanol fuels. What do you guys think?

Your car will be just fine to run on E85. You will not only be taking advantage of the cleaning properties of Ehtanol, but the extra octane as well.

If it is a flex fuel it is ok. Just make sure to run the gas tank as low as possible before filling up on E85. You will however get worse MPG's on E85, some numbers I have read have been between 10-15% less. Most people do not mind because it is usually cheaper than regular gas/E10. Also, some people have other stronger opinions on it being a more renewable fuel as it is made from corn.

You DO NOT have to run your tank down to switch to E85. That is what the flex fuel sensor is for. To adjust the fuel trims to keep stoich. It doesn't matter weather you have a half a tank or full tank or partial tank, you can swap whenever you want with no I'll affects.

 

[OffTrac]

Glad to have an expert weigh in (I'm assuming you are). Few questions:

Would you expect a Flex Fuel engine to last as long or longer on E85 than regular gasoline?
Longer than a regular gasoline engine on 100% gasoline?
Would you expect a non-flex fuel engine to last longer with E10 than regular gasoline?
Would you expect a vehicle from the 90s or later (pre-E10) to last longer on E10 than regular gasoline?

Similar, proper maintenance and all.

 

[Limited02]

I was asked to join this forum to dispel some myths and add some words.


Your car will be just fine to run on E85. You will not only be taking advantage of the cleaning properties of Ehtanol, but the extra octane as well.


You DO NOT have to run your tank down to switch to E85. That is what the flex fuel sensor is for. To adjust the fuel trims to keep stoich. It doesn't matter weather you have a half a tank or full tank or partial tank, you can swap whenever you want with no I'll affects.

04sleeper - Thank you for taking the time to join up. You are the only person I know that has real world experience with E85 hopefully you can answer any questions anyone here may have. Thanks again

 

[04sleeper]

Glad to have an expert weigh in (I'm assuming you are). Few questions:

Would you expect a Flex Fuel engine to last as long or longer on E85 than regular gasoline?
Longer than a regular gasoline engine on 100% gasoline?
Would you expect a non-flex fuel engine to last longer with E10 than regular gasoline?
Would you expect a vehicle from the 90s or later (pre-E10) to last longer on E10 than regular gasoline?

Similar, proper maintenance and all.

The problem with today's flex fuel engines is that they are not built to run optimally. They must be able to run on both 87 octane gasoline all the way to 105 or better E85.

E85 burns much cooler and much cleaner than gasoline so it will keep the pistons, valves and exhaust much cleaner. Forget using fuel cleaners and such, just fill up,with E85.

I have personally pulled apart engines running on both gasoline and E85. The E85 engine is always cleaner.

I have also disassembled a car that ran for 29,000 miles on gasoline then 3,000 miles on E85. Even after only running 3,000 miles on E85, it cleaned all the carbon off the pistons and valves. I could easily wipe off any residue with WD-40.

I would say if both engines are maintained well, they should both run until the mechanical limits of the weakest link in the engine. The E85 engine should just run cleaner.