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Cai idea

MyTrac

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July 18, 2012
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City, State
Utica, MI
Year, Model & Trim Level
2001 Sport Trac
So I decided to do a CAI by myself. I feel I am a bit more creative than the ones that are being sold....and alot cheaper!

But I was thinking! I have a small fan that I took apart. I think I could rig my small fan to the hole in my enclosed heat shield. Could this fan be somehow be electrically wired to the battery so that it runs constantly like the radiator fan??

The idea would be that the fan could suck in air and the intake could suck it all in. It would increase gas mileage I think because the MAF would sense a higher intake of air and would tell the car to suck less gas up? This is all theoretical of course, but I wanted to get some opinions.....
 



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Wouldn't it suck more gas up to compensate for the increased amount of air, so it wouldn't run lean? If it even did what you're thinking it would. And if you're thinking this will act like a supercharger...no. Not to be a negative Nancy, but I think if something so simple worked, someone would have done it already.
 






Nononono thats not it at all! I was only curious if it would actually increase flow....and i don't know if it would run lean or not. I guess the MAF would begin accommodating that?? I dont want to supercharge anything I was only brainstorming
 






The engine is strong enough to suck in all the air it wants. The air box doesn't need any help getting air in. It does need to have a place to get nice fresh air from. Like a fenderwell, anyplace in FRONT of the radiator, even a scoop on the hood if you can figure out a way to do it.
 






To make any significant power with a pushrod motor (besides getting a cooler temp/charge, which a fan will never do) you have to deal in bars (atmospheric pressure) and not CFM (fan ratings). NO fan (on a street driven engine) will ever be able to effect the atmospheric influences on a motor. The scumbags that advertise "turbonators" or "electric superchargers" and post outrageous claims in power play on the ignorance of the consumers making them think this rationale is plausible.

Having got that out, I must say I was young once too. In my mind, why would fools go to college for 4-6 years to become an engineer, and why would I spend $4,000 dollars on a supercharger kit when I can either install a PC fan in my airbox to get me 20hp or go full retard and install a leafblower motor (same as a supercharger, right?) on my motor and get 100hp. I must be a genius because the 100,000's of engineers and entrepreneurs who live before me never though of it, and now me being in my early teens/late 20's have made a dumb####ery out of every man (the 10,000,000x10,000,000) around the globe who has ever thought about getting more performance out of a machine.

I guess what I'm trying to say is....

...if your willing to learn, you on the right tract! People are willing to help, and people are willing to provide an environment to make it possible.







PS,

If you do come up with a game changing, innovating invention, can I test it for you?

:D
 






ok heres the simple mechanics of what you are looking to do. you have sensors reading all four cycles. starting with "intake" this is when the intake valves open and the engine sucks air/fuel mix in. now there are sensors that regulate the air and fuel mixture. these sensors are the MAF and O2 sensors there are others but these are the main ones. as exhaust comes out it reads the mixture as being rich, lean, or stoich. ideally you make the most power at the line between stoich and lean but doing this adds excessive heat, and wear on the motor and if you go to lean the motor could literally grenade itself. these sensor work in a linear graph. as you increase fuel you increase air to get the motor out of rich and into stoich, and the opposite add to much air motor leans then adds more fuel to get back to stoich.

so with your idea of using a fan to force feed your motor more air is not going to increase MPG but rather take MPG from you. essentially you are adding more air to the mix and the motor will in turn add more fuel to compensate and get you back to stoich.

best thing you can do is a simple reusable drop in filter in the stock air box, you got expensive one like AEM, K&N, then you have cheapies but equally as useful specter
 






thanks dakotatrac! and yes ExDude if I make a ground breaking discovery, then you will be the one i send my prototype to. Since you asked first haha
 






I am currently doing a CAD, or trying to do a CAD, of my DIY intake before I make it. I want to make the Box heat shield (like the Volant) and I want to be able to visualize it first! Don't worry guys I am still thinking!
 






To make any significant power with a pushrod motor (besides getting a cooler temp/charge, which a fan will never do) you have to deal in bars (atmospheric pressure) and not CFM (fan ratings). NO fan (on a street driven engine) will ever be able to effect the atmospheric influences on a motor. The scumbags that advertise "turbonators" or "electric superchargers" and post outrageous claims in power play on the ignorance of the consumers making them think this rationale is plausible.

Having got that out, I must say I was young once too. In my mind, why would fools go to college for 4-6 years to become an engineer, and why would I spend $4,000 dollars on a supercharger kit when I can either install a PC fan in my airbox to get me 20hp or go full retard and install a leafblower motor (same as a supercharger, right?) on my motor and get 100hp. I must be a genius because the 100,000's of engineers and entrepreneurs who live before me never though of it, and now me being in my early teens/late 20's have made a dumb####ery out of every man (the 10,000,000x10,000,000) around the globe who has ever thought about getting more performance out of a machine.

I guess what I'm trying to say is....

...if your willing to learn, you on the right tract! People are willing to help, and people are willing to provide an environment to make it possible.







PS,

If you do come up with a game changing, innovating invention, can I test it for you?

:D


Saving for future enjoyable reading...

Anyway,

If you're thinking about temps, honestly- seriously, the stock box is good.

This is a snapshot of my stock setup on the road:


screenshot-21.jpg



It was 83* outside on the overhead, and I'm registering 82.4* intake air temp.
 






The stock intake is usually one of the best intake one can get on a vehicle. i have yet to see a cai that actually makes a difference.(few cars benefit-370z) Even if it did give you any increase in power to put on a cai I still don't think it is worth it. After offroading my whole engine bay is covered in dirt and grime but since my filter is in the box it is still nice and pretty. I would spend my money on Random Technology products and actually make some power.
 






I once thaught that a fan in the air tube would be a neat idea for cheap "forced" induction. But, it would have to be non restrictive, and "blow" in faster then the engine wants to suck air in for it to make any difference if it will make a difference at all.

Im just throwing this in here to possably spark a creative idea. I would love to find a way to get some more mpg out of my Favorite ride. My father-in-law and I are playing with the idea of getting a good twist on the incoming air to atomize fuel by making something to fit behind the throttle body - like a spacer but with a shape to it that causes a good spiral in the intake.

Good luck with this, Hope my input causes a thaught to pop in and help!
 






Like a tornado? No. As soon as the "vortec" of air goes through whatever you put in there and into the intake, the whole effect is lost anyway. Not going to happen.
 






Like a tornado? No. As soon as the "vortec" of air goes through whatever you put in there and into the intake, the whole effect is lost anyway. Not going to happen.

Yeah, what Joe said.
 






Sp0rtTr4c: I get your point, I really do. But I just dont have money for the big upgrades and until I do, I can at least put 80 dollars into something I can create and make my own. Sure, I am not going to see huge gains (But I bet there will be some) but its cool for me to do something like this. And I am making a custom airbox so it will stay clean as possible in there. It will look kind of like the volant, but it will have alot bigger hole to draw air from.

Jstcruz: What would that twisting provide? I don't exactly see what it would benefit besides mixing? like the beer bottle with the cork screw twisty thing in the spout....
 












thanks guys...
 






Only if your seroius.....;)

How much electrical power (hp or kw) does the fan you have in mind actually put out?

A desktop computer fan putting out 20 watts is definately out of the question. Your engine is most likely going to chew that up and spit it out.

I have been in the electrical industry for almost 10 years now and I'm guessing that to have the fan actually build any positive pressure or "boost" in the induction system at all, you would need to be looking at a 2.4 KW (3.25 HP) fan at the very least. Keep in mind this would draw 145 amps @ 12V from the electrical system not including electrical losses. The fan would also have to be veriably controlled to prevent high Idle speed and excessive electrical system drain at Idle.

The electric fan you use has to be able to build positive pressure (PSI) at the flow rate (CFM) of your engine at any desired throttle position and RPM. This will most likely have to be driven by an AC electrical system off of DC to AC inverters, a battery bank and a high output alternator while being controlled by an AC Variac rigged up to the gas pedal or a knob on the dash if your quick enough to operate it correctly.

Now this is if you wanted to keep it simple and only have one elctrical system on your truck and use easy to come by off the shelf parts. Keep in mind this is really going to burn a hole in your back pocket. You mentioned in one of your posts that you were into CAD design. I suggest you engineer this as much as possible before deciding to purchase any equipment.

On a personal note I would love to see this done and see it done right. Now 3.25 HP is a starting figure and I cant see it producing any significant gains in power but if done right I'd say it wouldn't lose any either and it would proove that it could be done without going to extreme measures. I'd like to see a 10 KW system done by someone who knew what they were doing but how they would go about powering that electrically through or around an automotive system would be an awesome feat of engineering.

Keep us updated.
 






So basically I would have to measure the CFM and potentially try and test at what speeds and what wattage the fan would need to induct air at a rate 'over' that of the CFM rate to build pressure within the air-box, correct? I am sorry if that sounds really stupid, but I am just wanting to make sure. I am really curious now how I can do this. I have to tell you I am an 18 year old wide eyed bushy tailed kid just out of high school and no engineering background....But i am really wanting to try this. I love creating and experimenting so this will be fun!
 






The throttle body spacers after market provides have a spiral shape machined into them. they claim pretty good gains - I have never known anybody to use one - but the idea makes sense.

The tornado goes into the intake before the throttle body, so yeah, the effect of that would be deminished when the air smashes into the butterfly. But, after the throttle body, The air is pulled right into the intake ports. The idea is the swirling air helps to atomize the fuel in the cylender, making it more efficient.

Im not saying my idea will be the next voted for popular science magazine, but the idea seems like it would make some difference if done correctly. Almost like putting the tornado behind the throttle body instead of in front of it, but it would have to be lower profile and plenty stable enogh not to be pulled into the upper intake.
 



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Holy crap I have alot of reading to do......
 






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