Stock shocks and lift?

[AGreenSmudge]

Hi guys, new here.

I just recently aqcuired a 98 eddie bauer 4x4 sohc 4.0

It's in great shape for it's age as from the car fax and what was left in the stereo I can only assertain that it had one owner who was likely a middle aged Indian immigrant from the rich side of town.

The air ride suspension system has a leak in one of the front shocks as far as I can tell. The system works, but the airpump has to run for a few seconds about every 15min or so.

I'm considering replacing the tired rear leafs and doing a mild add-a-leaf kit and turning up the torsion bars. I don't want a monster off road machine, but I'd like a little more height and suspension travel. My question is will the air ride shocks tolerate any sort of lift at all? I like the system and don't mind replacing all the shocks with factory new ones, but I'd rather not if they can't tolerate anything other than the stock ride height.

 

[The Breeze]

I am not sure about the air ride system but I do know that if you crank the torsion bars you will lose suspension travel. It will also make the ride stiffer, depending on how high you go.

 

[AGreenSmudge]

I am not sure about the air ride system but I do know that if you crank the torsion bars you will lose suspension travel. It will also make the ride stiffer, depending on how high you go.

I'm lookin at 2", if I want any more then I'll do a body lift, but I'm not sure I'll want that much.

 

[The Breeze]

If you go up 2" you will lose roughly 2"s of down travel. When you crank your t bars you are essentially forcing your lower a arms down, which pushes your truck up. Since you pushed the a arm down, your just that much closer to being at full extension

Also just realized your a 4x4. Thats gonna put a lot of stress on your cv joints. I believe that a 4x4 shouldnt go past 1 1/2".

 

[SoNic67]

You will get less suspension travel with both add-a-leaf and turning the torsion bars. Ride will become more stiff, harsh, and even bouncier with the existing worn-out shocks. Shocks cannot probably dampen the existing spring-rates anymore, stiffer rates will be more than they can handle.

 

[Maniak]

While I can't speak for the ARC suspension in the rear.. I can say there are many people who use the TT to lift the front of their 2nd gen will no "ill" effects.

For Example.. DaExplorer and his kid, CjExplorer both run a TT to lift the front some and a set of Warrior 153 shackles to lift the rear. Both are DD vehicles and they take them off-road.

Stock, the 2nd gen front end doesn't have much travel anyway. When wheeling it is really the rear suspension flex that is relied upon so I don't think the loss in down travel is a big deal especially since down travel doesn't give you much traction up front anyway

I'd check with them to see how they like the ride with the TT since they not only wheel (I've wheeled with them) but DD their vehicles.


~Mark

 

[AGreenSmudge]

While I can't speak for the ARC suspension in the rear.. I can say there are many people who use the TT to lift the front of their 2nd gen will no "ill" effects.

For Example.. DaExplorer and his kid, CjExplorer both run a TT to lift the front some and a set of Warrior 153 shackles to lift the rear. Both are DD vehicles and they take them off-road.

Stock, the 2nd gen front end doesn't have much travel anyway. When wheeling it is really the rear suspension flex that is relied upon so I don't think the loss in down travel is a big deal especially since down travel doesn't give you much traction up front anyway

I'd check with them to see how they like the ride with the TT since they not only wheel (I've wheeled with them) but DD their vehicles.


~Mark

Thanks!

 

[SoNic67]

Stock, the 2nd gen front end doesn't have much travel anyway.

That's exactly why the Explorers suck so bad at ride comfort. Making that front even stiffer is not gonna help. Probably it won't hurt that much for some individuals, I know that I would hate it on highway.
Limiting the travel in the 'down' direction would affect the ride because the whole front would have to 'dip' more to compensate. A dip is usually followed by a 'rise' and that would work more the front end, leading to a higher rebound force. With stock shocks, the damping force is less than necessary to control that movement. Especially with worn shocks.

 

[Maniak]

That's exactly why the Explorers suck so bad at ride comfort. Making that front even stiffer is not gonna help. Probably it won't hurt that much for some individuals, I know that I would hate it on highway.
Limiting the travel in the 'down' direction would affect the ride because the whole front would have to 'dip' more to compensate. A dip is usually followed by a 'rise' and that would work more the front end, leading to a higher rebound force. With stock shocks, the damping force is less than necessary to control that movement. Especially with worn shocks.

Its all a compromise.. Unless you're willing to spend lots of money you will affect the ride quality when you make it more capable off-road. Its also personal preference. What I consider comfortable some consider harsh and the other way around is true too.

My thinking is, if I wanted ride comfort I'd have a 4th gen or newer explorer, not one of the truck based ones.

~Mark

 

[AGreenSmudge]

That's exactly why the Explorers suck so bad at ride comfort. Making that front even stiffer is not gonna help. Probably it won't hurt that much for some individuals, I know that I would hate it on highway.
Limiting the travel in the 'down' direction would affect the ride because the whole front would have to 'dip' more to compensate. A dip is usually followed by a 'rise' and that would work more the front end, leading to a higher rebound force. With stock shocks, the damping force is less than necessary to control that movement. Especially with worn shocks.

Half the point in my original post was that regardless of what I do, I am going to replace the shocks. Wether the air ride shocks can handle any lift at all will be the determining factor as to wether I replace these with new ones, or disconnect the system and go with some entry level offroad shocks. I think it's a neat system and from what I can tell the one on mine works fine except for the slow leak which I think is up front.

 

[AGreenSmudge]

Its all a compromise.. Unless you're willing to spend lots of money you will affect the ride quality when you make it more capable off-road. Its also personal preference. What I consider comfortable some consider harsh and the other way around is true too.

My thinking is, if I wanted ride comfort I'd have a 4th gen or newer explorer, not one of the truck based ones.

~Mark

The current ride of this vehicle is comfortable, but it can be a bit "loose" considering the vehicle I had before it was an '06 civic coupe. That car did well on dumps for such a small car, but it was still really annoying considering half the metroplex here is under construction and will be for the next 5 years or so. The explorer laughs at all that crap.

 

[swshawaii]

Designed for up to 2.5" of lift. Rear RS5185 are stock length.
http://www.gorancho.com/assets/application_pdf/RanchoSuspension_MaxTravel.pdf

Mail in rebate on four thru 6/30/13
http://www.gorancho.com/promotions/rancho_wheeldeal_rebatepad_web.pdf

 

[DaExplorer]

The current ride of this vehicle is comfortable, but it can be a bit "loose" considering the vehicle I had before it was an '06 civic coupe. That car did well on dumps for such a small car, but it was still really annoying considering half the metroplex here is under construction and will be for the next 5 years or so. The explorer laughs at all that crap.

What do you mean as a bit loose? Steering? A arms, ball joints, Tie rod ends? Items that wear out and make it steer and feel loose.
Of course the explorer rides higher and handles different than your civic, a front wheel drive car, did.

I know I sent you an answer to your pm earlier, but I just read your thread and question.

The lift wasn't that much just what the Warrior 153's brought it up to and then doing the torsion twist to bring the front up to level.
I don't think that I noticed much of a difference in the ride after the lift. The true test was that my wife didn't notice when I had lifted it. After a couple of weeks she made another comment about how she has trouble getting into our son's explorer. They are basically the same height. We both laughed and told her that we had lifted it weeks ago. She likes the way it drives and feels.

As for your question about shocks, I don't know how well your air ride will work with a lift. I would trace hoses to see if you could find the leak. The hoses are 15 years old after all. Again just speaking for MYSELF I would give it a try and see how it rides for YOU.

Hope this helps.

 

[Flash]

Something I was thinking of doing with my Ltd was to install a second set of shocks to run alongside the standard and probably worn out air shocks.

I know the Ltd rides a lot better than the XLT did when I first got it, it was all over the place.

I remember reading a while ago that a Lincoln Navigator rides like a limo. I know it's a different platform but I wonder what they run.

 

[SoNic67]

The newer Navigators have as shocks 'Monotube with Remote Reservoir'.

 

[Flash]

The newer Navigators have as shocks 'Monotube with Remote Reservoir'.

Oooooh, expensive.

 

[AGreenSmudge]

What do you mean as a bit loose? Steering? A arms, ball joints, Tie rod ends? Items that wear out and make it steer and feel loose.
Of course the explorer rides higher and handles different than your civic, a front wheel drive car, did.

I know I sent you an answer to your pm earlier, but I just read your thread and question.

The lift wasn't that much just what the Warrior 153's brought it up to and then doing the torsion twist to bring the front up to level.
I don't think that I noticed much of a difference in the ride after the lift. The true test was that my wife didn't notice when I had lifted it. After a couple of weeks she made another comment about how she has trouble getting into our son's explorer. They are basically the same height. We both laughed and told her that we had lifted it weeks ago. She likes the way it drives and feels.

As for your question about shocks, I don't know how well your air ride will work with a lift. I would trace hoses to see if you could find the leak. The hoses are 15 years old after all. Again just speaking for MYSELF I would give it a try and see how it rides for YOU.

Hope this helps.

I meant "loose" as in it has suspension travel and mass to it as opposed to the civic. It does float a bit more than i'd like, but that's just preference. So making the suspension a little tighter would be nice.

The suspension and handling are surprisingly tight and straight for an older vehicle.

Thanks for the PM reply!

 

[SoNic67]

That 'loose' feeling would be because worn shocks. When I bought mine, it was feeling the same. 100K miles on original shocks is too much.

 

[RomeovilleIL]

My question is will the air ride shocks tolerate any sort of lift at all? I like the system and don't mind replacing all the shocks with factory new ones, but I'd rather not if they can't tolerate anything other than the stock ride height.

The air ride system is going to fight you on changing the ride height. There are 3 sensors, one for the rear axle, and one on each of the two front control arms. When the system senses the axle is too low, it adds air to raise it. It the system senses it is too high, air is removed to lower. If you plan to remove the air ride system, it isn't a big deal. However you could fairly easily make a couple small brackets to move the sensor mounting points and the truck would lift itself for you with no other parts changes needed with no loss in overall travel, though it will be a little stiffer. For those who say wont work or would stress the system, I remind you that there used to be a ride height adjustment built into the 95/96's that did exactly this by pushing a button on the console.

 

[AGreenSmudge]

The air ride system is going to fight you on changing the ride height. There are 3 sensors, one for the rear axle, and one on each of the two front control arms. When the system senses the axle is too low, it adds air to raise it. It the system senses it is too high, air is removed to lower. If you plan to remove the air ride system, it isn't a big deal. However you could fairly easily make a couple small brackets to move the sensor mounting points and the truck would lift itself for you with no other parts changes needed with no loss in overall travel, though it will be a little stiffer. For those who say wont work or would stress the system, I remind you that there used to be a ride height adjustment built into the 95/96's that did exactly this by pushing a button on the console.

Huh, so if I raised it with a TT and shackles would that cause it to try and let all the air out of the system?