Rebuilt engine is loud?

[koda2000]

why is the v8 cheaper?

because the V8 is a much simpler (and more reliable) design than the SOHC engine. the SOHC is a more complicated, more sophisticated design and has more expensive parts inside of it. give me a simple push-rod engine any day. as to why the V8 is cheaper than the OHV V6... beats me. supply and demand I suppose.

 

[drdoom]

Just out of curiosity what's the cost of a crate engine these days? That's a lot of cash.

SPARTAN remans run about $2800 USD if I remember correctly, with a warranty.

 

[drdoom]

Your DPFE hoses check out?

 

[elrynon]

I would definitely go that route. One example:
$1825 (add $475 core deposit) for OHV V6 (VIN 'X')
$2595 for SOHC V6
$1750 for V8 5.0L
https://www.barnettesengines.com/uploads/Copy_of_barnettes_Ford-Lincoln-Mercury_x_1.pdf

Well ****.......little too late now. lol Such is my life. Oh well. Count it a life lesson i guess.

 

[elrynon]

I found this picture in another thread on these forums talking about timing chain issues. (It's from KC's timing chain walkthrough) The top part of the cassette sticking out is what I was talking about earlier. Is this suppose to remain fairly stationary? Or is it suppose to vibrate back and forth really fast like a rattlesnake tail(sorry, best comparison I could think of)?

DrDoom, I'll check all the hoses probably on monday when I get a chance.

 

[boominXplorer]

It will bounce back and fourth while rotated by hand. While running the tensioner pumps up with oil and keeps it tight.

 

[elrynon]

That's probably it right there then. Because that top part of the cassette was vibrating back and forth just as fast as the chain was going across it. So I'm guessing either a bad tensioner or something creating excessive force on the cassette/chain?

 

[2000StreetRod]

valve spring pressure

That's probably it right there then. Because that top part of the cassette was vibrating back and forth just as fast as the chain was going across it. So I'm guessing either a bad tensioner or something creating excessive force on the cassette/chain?

As boominXplorer mentioned, it is normal for the cassette guide to move when rotating the crankshaft by hand. The spring pressure in the tensioner is not strong enough to keep the chain taught on the slack side of the cassette guide as the tension on the traction side changes due to the changing valve spring pressure as the valves open and close. When the engine is running the oil pressure builds in the tensioner piston keeping the chain taught and there should be very little movement of the guide.

 

[elrynon]

That's what I'm saying. The engine was running and I took the oil cap off and looked down inside where the chain/cassette meet (at juuuuuust the right angle you can see it) and the little "knob" or whatever you want to call it that sticks up from the cassette was vibrating back and forth as fast as the chain was spinning. Unless there's something I'm missing and you lose oil pressure when taking the cap off? Although my oil pressure light never comes on?

 

[2000StreetRod]

Removing oil filler cap

That's what I'm saying. The engine was running and I took the oil cap off and looked down inside where the chain/cassette meet (at juuuuuust the right angle you can see it) and the little "knob" or whatever you want to call it that sticks up from the cassette was vibrating back and forth as fast as the chain was spinning. Unless there's something I'm missing and you lose oil pressure when taking the cap off? Although my oil pressure light never comes on?

Removing the oil filler cap has no effect on engine oil pressure unless the cap is left off long enough for a significant amount of oil to be thrown out thru the open port.

I've never watched my cassette guide movement with the engine running so I don't know how much side displacement is normal. As the jackshaft sprocket rotates it pulls the camshaft sprocket via the chain. That's why I call the pulling side the "traction" side. The hydraulic tensioner is on the opposite side to take up any slack in the chain. That's why I call it the "slack" side. When the crankshaft rotation is increasing there should be less displacement variation of the slack side guide. Also, the faster the crankshaft rotation the less the slack side displacement variation. The piston force in the tensioner is most important when the crankshaft rotation decreases rapidly.

 

[elrynon]

Well, I took out the new front tensioner and it felt the same as my old/old one and old/new one. (I bought a brand new one before getting the rebuild done as was recommended for the timing chain noise). Tried putting the old/new one in and still the same sound. So back to the shop it goes.

I also THINK I found out my bog@idle while steering problem. Power steering reservoir was less than half full. I won't have a chance to get any ATF and drive it and test it until tomorrow.

 

[elrynon]

Argh!!

Ok, so took the explorer back to the shop and it ended up being the front tensioner. (I made a mistake by saying I tried my old tensioner before taking it back. That was my PLAN but I ran out of time before getting the chance) He put a new one in and when I went to pick it up it was nice and quiet and smooth.

Drove her home (stopped about half way to listen for any noises and nothing) pulled into the driveway and don't you f*cking know it, the noise was back. Although very quiet this time. Coming from the back too.

Switched out his new back tensioner with my two old ford tensioners and still the same thing. Here's the weird part though. It does NOT make the noise until the engine gets nice and warm. At startup it's quiet and sounds normal. After about 5-10 minutes when the engine gets hot though it starts making the noise. I can shut the engine down and let it cool off and start it up and nothing, then when warm BAM!

I called him and told him I'm getting a little annoyed with this and he agreed. He said he has no idea what it could be. He said for now he wants me to drive it the 500 miles and do an oil change but when I do the oil change he wants me to try putting 20/50 in it to see if it makes it quiet. He said that would give him a better idea of where to go with this.

He's more than willing to do any work that needs to be done on it BUT to save me money from having to keep renting a car over and over again and to keep him from having to throw random parts at it he wants me to try the oil thing first. He said he also has a buddy that's a mechanic over at a dealership and he's going to pick his brain as well.

What do you guys think? Any idea why it wouldn't make the noise until the engine gets hot? He said it COULD be the back cassette but he thinks it would either make the noise at first and then get quiet or make the noise all the time. Not the other way around. Any help is appreciated. Thanks guys.

Oh, btw. With a good tensioner (at least this is from my experience. You guys can look at your own vehicles and see if it's the same?), with the new tensioner in and the engine running, that cassette piece I was talking about does not move. It's stationary.

 

[drdoom]

Now this is PURE speculation on my part and I mean no offense to anyone, but it seems as though oil pressure is being lost somewhere.

 

[elrynon]

Wouldn't that show up on the gauge though? It sits right in the middle on my in-dash gauge like normal. I'm probably going to annoy you guys with lots of questions but I want to try and do as much as I can NOW before renting a car AGAIN and driving this back over to get look at again.

No offense taken at all. I'm a DIYer so I just learn as I go and with this other guy. *shrugs* He came with good recommendations from multiple people but you know how that can go. You guys can feel free to be as blunt as you want with me. I'll just probably throw more questions back at you. lol

 

[Maniak]

The oil pressure gauge on the dash is just an analog idiot light. I'm not 100% sure on your year but every other year I've seen shows good pressure at 5psi and shows low when the pressure is < 5 psi.

~Mark

 

[elrynon]

Well, I was HOPING that my OBDII tool would read oil pressure but no big surprise, no luck. I've been throwing all this info at my brother (sadly half way across the country or he'd help me out) and he thinks it could be all sorts of things. A rod bearing/other bearings, a lifter, bad oil pump, loose flywheel bolt (although I question this one because I would assume it would make the noise ALL the time, not just when warm?)

I did the screwdriver/stethoscope thing and can barely hear the noise up top/front of the engine but can hear it clearly at the bottom/back of the engine, the oil pan and even the transmission(these are all the places I touched the screwdriver to). You can also hear it louder by plain ear just kneeling/crawling under where the engine/tranny meet. (sorry for the bad vocabulary. lol)

Kind of torn where to go from here. My brother recommended (hesitantly) going to the dealer and explaining the situation to them and asking them to A)get the oil pressure for me and B)listen to the sound since they mess around with these engines all the time and see what they think. He also thinks I should do an oil change NOW and not wait till the 500 mile mark to see if there are any metal shavings in it. He also told me to get the sound fixed and dump the explorer now. lol

I wanted to say that I DO appreciate you guys sticking through this with me and all my questions. I know people get annoyed/fed up with newbies/greenhorns and tend to not to want to deal with them.

 

[Jasonx521]

I would let him know that you are not happy with the engine and this is costing you time and money on his account.

It sounds like it has low oil pressure.
He needs to measure the oil pressure.
The tensioners should not be making any noise, or need to be broken in.

If he doesn't take care of this, then take it to the dealer ASAP, and lawyer up.

 

[elrynon]

For sure going to let him know I'm not happy. Definitely going to get the oil pressure checked. I'm just going to do it at a dealer (about 5 minutes away) or another reputable shop because the guy who did the rebuild is about an hour away. I'm trying to get the "minor" things out of the way first (oil pressure checked, sound listened to, etc) before driving over there and dropping it off again. The front tensioner WAS bad (unless he did something else that I don't know about) because I could look through the oil cap and see the cassette rattling back and forth with the chain. When he replaced the tensioner with ANOTHER new one the noise stopped (that noise anyhow) and the cassette is now stationary. Personally, I'm not going to hold bad parts against him (although it scares me how many other parts are going to take a ****. lol) Trust me though, I'm still annoyed/pissed about the situation. At THIS point and time he's been more than willing to fix anything wrong with it (we'll see in the future if I have to keep taking it back) The biggest P.I.T.A. part of this whole situation is like I said, he's a little over an hour away and it's my only vehicle.

 

[drdoom]

Yes, what I mean is a small loss of pressure, somewhere in a bearing, or passageway. Just something small.

PS: What are you running for break-in oil?

 

[elrynon]

Drdoom, I honestly don't know what he put in. The thought never crossed my mind to ask. I e-mailed him earlier and asked so I'll have to wait and see what he says. I'm GUESSING either 10-30 or 5-20. Complete guess though.