Bad or Burnt Exhaust smell in cabin during hard acceleration.

[peterk9]

...... Also, it seems that most of the people that say their car doesn’t have the issue live way up north where maybe it is often not warm enough outside for the mufflers to get that hot.

I can't see the air temperature having any effect on the muffler. The engine exhaust is going to heat it as hot as it's going to get regardless of the air temperature.

Peter

 

[tnt_12]

I can't see the air temperature having any effect on the muffler. The engine exhaust is going to heat it as hot as it's going to get regardless of the air temperature.

Peter

Think harder. For example, without a thermostat your engine would never even get up to temperature in the cold up north. You are batting about 0 for 10 on this thread. The exhaust isn't all that hot all the way back there and the mufflers are air cooled. But this is why you can't diagnose a problem sitting at a computer, Plum did dissect the mufflers and I know for a fact that the smell pretty much goes away in the cold weather.

 

[peterk9]

Think harder. For example, without a thermostat your engine would never even get up to temperature in the cold up north. You are batting about 0 for 10 on this thread. The exhaust isn't all that hot all the way back there and the mufflers are air cooled. But this is why you can't diagnose a problem sitting at a computer, Plum did dissect the mufflers and I know for a fact that the smell pretty much goes away in the cold weather.

The thermostat has nothing at all to do with the exhaust temperature. I have no idea what your second statement is based on. Granted, perhaps I should have said that the temperature shouldn't have that much of an effect rather that no effect. The main issue isn't as much the smell but why the exhaust smell is entering the cabin. If the gases are entering the cabin, changing the muffler won't solve that issue. Not sure what you mean by mufflers being 'air cooled' other than the fact that they are open to the air under the vehicle. But then so is the catalytic convertor and the Owner's Guide has a warning about parking on grass due to the possibility of causing a fire due to the heat it generates.
Most of the posts here are based on guesses and theories and mine is no different. As such, I still think blaming the muffler may also be in that same vein. Hard to believe, but not impossible, that Ford wouldn't have figured that out by now if it was the muffler.

Peter

 

[14explorer]

Not sure if I would conclude 100 percent that it is exhaust gas coming into the cabin. Makes logical sense both ways, but if the smell is being produced around the exhaust gas (packing surrounding) the burning smell is seeping outward from the muffler and not out the tail pipe. I really think if we had that much of an air leak you'd smell exhaust all the time - just a different type of smell. In other words lay behind the tail pipe and sniff....you'd smell this constantly in the cabin. You'd also have symptoms such as a constant headaches, shortness of breath, etc etc. Also, you can bet your arse that ford would do a recall if this were truly exhaust gases you're breathing. They'd have a multi, and I mean multi, million dollar class action suit.

Every post on this thread is a theory. However, we have some that have concrete evidence...they replaced their mufflers and immediately have no more smell. I would say that is causation and not merely correlation.

 

[Penumbra]

Gases entering cabin

Peter hit the nail on the head. Its irrelevant what creates the gases. Acidic gases are generated by a conglomeration of sources outside the cabin. Most gases produced through heat exchange of any level are acidic to humans and therefore are slowly killing you...period..odor or not.

What needs to be done is a controlled cabin air sample. Once the results are produced the exact answer of all possible gas sources will be revealed. Although, this is not the real issue.

Too much energy is being focused on this. If everyone shifted their focus to the physical location(s) of gases entering the cabin this issue would be solved by now. Its typical of humans to be cause and effect...topical solutions which are prevalent in our government, schools and big pharma. Profit and control, not base solutions.

There was a post a while back of a user who discovered missing exhaust manifold bolts and an ac drip within inches of this. Ford never fixed it 100% and they won their lemon law suit.

The fact that Ford shut them down and flat out refused to fix it in the end is disheartening and shameful.

 

[Penumbra]

Gases entering cabin

Peter hit the nail on the head. Its irrelevant what creates the gases. Acidic gases are generated by a conglomeration of sources outside the cabin. Most gases produced through heat exchange of any level are acidic to humans and therefore are slowly killing you...period..odor or not.

What needs to be done is a controlled cabin air sample. Once the results are produced the exact answer of all possible gas sources will be revealed. Although, this is not the real issue.

Too much energy is being focused on this. If everyone shifted their focus to the physical location(s) of gases entering the cabin this issue would be solved by now. Its typical of humans to be cause and effect...topical solutions which are prevalent in our government, schools and big pharma. Profit and control, not base solutions.

There was a post a while back of a user who discovered missing exhaust manifold bolts and an ac drip within inches of this. Ford never fixed it 100% and they won their lemon law suit.

The fact that Ford shut them down and flat out refused to fix it in the end is disheartening and shameful.

 

[tnt_12]

The thermostat has nothing at all to do with the exhaust temperature. I have no idea what your second statement is based on. Granted, perhaps I should have said that the temperature shouldn't have that much of an effect rather that no effect. The main issue isn't as much the smell but why the exhaust smell is entering the cabin. If the gases are entering the cabin, changing the muffler won't solve that issue. Not sure what you mean by mufflers being 'air cooled' other than the fact that they are open to the air under the vehicle. But then so is the catalytic convertor and the Owner's Guide has a warning about parking on grass due to the possibility of causing a fire due to the heat it generates.
Most of the posts here are based on guesses and theories and mine is no different. As such, I still think blaming the muffler may also be in that same vein. Hard to believe, but not impossible, that Ford wouldn't have figured that out by now if it was the muffler.
Peter

Oy vey, I give up trying to get through to you. My advice would be to let people post their info and opinions and don't keep disputing them.

 

[14explorer]

Based on the rhetoric of your post I'm guessing you work for Penumbra Nuerovascular? VERY familiar with their products to say the least.

Peter hit the nail on the head. Its irrelevant what creates the gases. Acidic gases are generated by a conglomeration of sources outside the cabin. Most gases produced through heat exchange of any level are acidic to humans and therefore are slowly killing you...period..odor or not.

What needs to be done is a controlled cabin air sample. Once the results are produced the exact answer of all possible gas sources will be revealed. Although, this is not the real issue.

Too much energy is being focused on this. If everyone shifted their focus to the physical location(s) of gases entering the cabin this issue would be solved by now. Its typical of humans to be cause and effect...topical solutions which are prevalent in our government, schools and big pharma. Profit and control, not base solutions.



There was a post a while back of a user who discovered missing exhaust manifold bolts and an ac drip within inches of this. Ford never fixed it 100% and they won their lemon law suit.

The fact that Ford shut them down and flat out refused to fix it in the end is disheartening and shameful.

 

[CalifLove]

14explorer, this is by far the best explanation of the cause that we have so far. It also explains why the problem seems to go away in the winter and fades with mileage on the car. Plus it makes sense that the problem exists across different Ford models if they are using the same type of mufflers and packing. Aftermarket mufflers also use a fiberglass type of packing so you may still get some smell when new but probably much less. The Explorer mufflers have that vent hole that may be a big part of the problem.

I agree, sounds like a good theory for sure. I am really interested in a exhaust upgrade anyway for a better sound but would like to know 100% ahead of time that I wont still have the same problem as I don't want to have to fight with Ford over the smell and cause with a then modified car to give them further cause or reason not to even deal with me...

I unfortunately have not had any time to take the car back to the dealer to have them do their additional tests on the situation. I have to say, based on the information here and my gut, seems like it will be a waste of time anyway. Wonder if its possible to run the car on a dyno with resonator and back removed and some computer trickery to make it run... and see if there is the same smell...

 

[14explorer]

Well, I am taking mine in for the TSB anyhow; scheduled next week. Wouldn't hurt at this point even if I believe it's the mufflers. I agree with peter and penumbra, regardless of the source we shouldn't smell it inside. The tsb will at least cut back on some of the air leakage before I change out the mufflers. Will report back on the effectiveness of the tsb. I have a one-up on the tech that will be doing the work.....he left his multi tool in my truck the last service! It's a $100 tool so I'll be sure to give it back to the rightful owner, meanwhile asking for some "extra attention" when applying the bead sealant, etc .

 

[thestumper]

Makes sense, but why don't all Explorers have this issue? I, for example, don't have this issue. Maybe I haven't run it hard enough? I have done some 0-~80mph runs getting onto the freeway. Maybe not enough miles(3500 and counting).

Well, just for another data point, I had the issue shortly after purchase (about a year ago - 2013 Sport). Then it just vanished after about a month. The only thing I did was start putting slightly better gas in it, but I'm not sure that had anything to do with it. I've since driven it though summer, fall, the hardest, coldest winter we've had here in decades, spring, and now into summer again. No smell anymore. Not once. I have no idea what changed. I drive it like I stole it whenever I can, but it is subject to just about every traffic scenario imaginable from stop and go to freeway bombing to back road dancing. It's just gone.

I truly wish I had an answer; I truly do. I feel for those still struggling with the issue because it was miserable; my kids didn't want to go near it while it was happening. If someone wants to pick my brain and maybe jar something lose that I forgot/didn't realize I did, feel free. It's just too bizarre that someone hasn't found a definitive answer this far into the game

 

[peterk9]

Well, just for another data point, I had the issue shortly after purchase (about a year ago - 2013 Sport). Then it just vanished after about a month. The only thing I did was start putting slightly better gas in it, but I'm not sure that had anything to do with it. I've since driven it though summer, fall, the hardest, coldest winter we've had here in decades, spring, and now into summer again. No smell anymore. Not once. I have no idea what changed. I drive it like I stole it whenever I can, but it is subject to just about every traffic scenario imaginable from stop and go to freeway bombing to back road dancing. It's just gone.

I truly wish I had an answer; I truly do. I feel for those still struggling with the issue because it was miserable; my kids didn't want to go near it while it was happening. If someone wants to pick my brain and maybe jar something lose that I forgot/didn't realize I did, feel free. It's just too bizarre that someone hasn't found a definitive answer this far into the game

Are you talking about just an exhaust smell or the sulphur (rotten egg) smell. If the latter, changing gasoline brands can definitely affect that. Since sulphur content isn't regulated, some gasolines have a higher concentration of it than others. This odour is produced by the catalytic convertor and becomes increasingly more noticeable with hard driving.

Peter

 

[thestumper]

Are you talking about just an exhaust smell or the sulphur (rotten egg) smell. If the latter, changing gasoline brands can definitely affect that. Since sulphur content isn't regulated, some gasolines have a higher concentration of it than others. This odour is produced by the catalytic convertor and becomes increasingly more noticeable with hard driving.

Peter

I never changed brands, just octane, but since that time have switched between 89 and 92 frequently with no return of the odor. Maybe my smell was different - I always thought of it as more of a catalytic/exhaust smell - slightly metallic in nature. It was noxious - my kids hated it. I was really concerned about it at the time; enough that I actually considered trading the vehicle. At this point I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it does not someday return, as I've grown quite fond of it...

 

[TNRC51]

Well, I've had my first taste of the acceleration stink issue. Entering the interstate with a long ramp I got on the gas fairly well for longer than normal for me. Not floored just letting it rev a little. As soon as I settled back to cruise it was very noticeable. I initially thought the waste-gate had dumped it and the fresh air intake pulled it in the cabin. But, from looking here it seems not only the Sport's have the problem... I duplicated it again later on Sunday afternoon. In my case it is not "Burned Oil" smell. My wife instantly said Catalytic Converter , I would agree that it more exhaust / chemical in nature. I did notice that the AC by default is in fresh mode. I may use recirculate more now.

 

[ern3]

I have decided to switch over to E-85 for the summer... has anyone noticed a +/- difference in smell while using E-85?? Mine is still bad with regular gas, and had all TSB "fixes" performed...

-ern

 

[peterk9]

I don't know how many flex fuel Explorers are out there and what the determining factor is as to which ones get it. I have a 2014 MKT Ecoboost but it isn't flex fuel. I hope it clears up your issue. It will, however, also reduce your MPGs.

Peter

 

[tjEXPLORER11]

Haven't been on the board in a long time...the fix the dealer did on mine is still working, no exhaust smell inside at all.

 

[Eduardo Alvarez]

Not sure if I would conclude 100 percent that it is exhaust gas coming into the cabin. Makes logical sense both ways, but if the smell is being produced around the exhaust gas (packing surrounding) the burning smell is seeping outward from the muffler and not out the tail pipe. I really think if we had that much of an air leak you'd smell exhaust all the time - just a different type of smell. In other words lay behind the tail pipe and sniff....you'd smell this constantly in the cabin. You'd also have symptoms such as a constant headaches, shortness of breath, etc etc. Also, you can bet your arse that ford would do a recall if this were truly exhaust gases you're breathing. They'd have a multi, and I mean multi, million dollar class action suit.

Every post on this thread is a theory. However, we have some that have concrete evidence...they replaced their mufflers and immediately have no more smell. I would say that is causation and not merely correlation.

 

[Eduardo Alvarez]

Do not worry about the burning smell because as the tobacco companies they have internal studies that the fumes do not cause damage.

They sent me a letter that said.

Emerging Market Services
1555 Fairlane Dr.
Allen Park, MI 48101


Ford Customer Service Division


March 7, 2014

Mr. Eduardo Alvarez


Dear Mr. Alvarez

Subject: Customer Concern - Exhaust Odor on 2011-2014 Explorer, Edge or MKX

We thank you for taking the time to discuss the concern of exhaust odor in your vehicle. To address your concern about exhaust odor, we have performed several inspections and sealing actions where applicable on your vehicle to help minimize the amount of odor coming into the passenger compartment. With these changes you may still experience odor under certain driving conditions such as, when performing wide open throttle (WOT) accelerations with the climate control system in recirculation mode.

Ford Motor Company engineers have evaluated the air entering the cabin during worst case driving conditions (several WOT accelerations with the climate system in recirculation mode). Test results indicate cabin air quality levels are well within the ambient air quality standards established by various global Environmental Protection Agencies such as the U.S. EPA, OSHA, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia Presidency of Meteorology & Environment and the Government of Dubai Environment Health and Safety Division.

Again, thank you for your time.


Sincerely,
Lourdes Fonseca-Nearon
Customer Relations Analyst

 

[Ggcrazyboys]

Persistence Pays Off

I was having the burning exhaust smell in my 13 explorers XLT. I took it in 3 times even had the TSB performed. Issue still existed. I filed. BBB auto Line claim and after 8 months of being persistent and going thru the process, FORD HAS BEEN ORDERED BY THE ARBITRATOR TO RE-PURCHASE MY VEHICLE. So this is to those who are experiencing this issue. Don't give up, hire a lemon law attorney. Ford is very aware of this issue!!