Lowered the Sport for Free today! DIY

[jran76]

Truck looks great. Cutting springs has been done for ever. If someone has a negative comment, back it up with fact. Otherwise I'm guessing you just like to hear yourself. Everyone's a forum tough guy......lol

OK....

The springs on modern cars are much different than what was used "forever" ago. Most newer springs are some type of progressive spring, whereas in the way back past they were linear; meaning the first several coils are softer to absorb initial road impact, and the rest of the coils in the middle are stiffer to improve handling in corners. So, when you cut a spring on a modern car, you are removing the part that aids in ride quality, and also greatly changing the handling dynamics of the car.

Due to the more progressive nature of springs, it's also impossible to know how much you have really changed the spring rate. Aftermarket springs may change the spring rate, but it's a calculated amount based on the stock shocks in most cases. With cut springs, you have no idea what your spring rate is.... You've effectively increased it, but by how much? This will lead to premature where, you will hit the bump stops on the stock shocks, and no matter what anyone says, the ride will be more bouncy. Aftermarket springs usually increase the spring rate a calculated amount to counteract most of these things.

Lastly, when you go to sell your car, you're going to have a set of springs installed that is going to make it almost impossible to sell/trade-in the car. In this day and age, no one is going to buy a car with hacked up springs due to all of the above along with the possible safety issues, tire wear issues, etc. Where you could have bought aftermarket springs, and gone back to stock to sell it, you will be stuck buying new stock springs which will cost a lot more than the aftermarket springs you could have bought in the first place.

If the OP is happy, good for him. No issues there.... I just want to make sure anyone else considering this understands what they are getting into. A set of springs is under $300. For a $40k+ vehicle, it's not worth all of the above.

 

[Odrapnew]

OK....

The springs on modern cars are much different than what was used "forever" ago. Most newer springs are some type of progressive spring, whereas in the way back past they were linear; meaning the first several coils are softer to absorb initial road impact, and the rest of the coils in the middle are stiffer to improve handling in corners. So, when you cut a spring on a modern car, you are removing the part that aids in ride quality, and also greatly changing the handling dynamics of the car.

Agree with most of this, but are you certain cutting springs removes the “soft” portion? What if he cut off the other end? I don’t know the workings of all vehicle springs, but I know the springs on my mustang, have one end that is soft, the other end is stiff.

Due to the more progressive nature of springs, it's also impossible to know how much you have really changed the spring rate. Aftermarket springs may change the spring rate, but it's a calculated amount based on the stock shocks in most cases. With cut springs, you have no idea what your spring rate is.... You've effectively increased it, but by how much? This will lead to premature where, you will hit the bump stops on the stock shocks, and no matter what anyone says, the ride will be more bouncy. Aftermarket springs usually increase the spring rate a calculated amount to counteract most of these things.

I agree that you don’t know what the spring rate is once you cut them. Any time you change(usually increasing) the spring rate(whether cutting stock springs or adding aftermarket) though, you will increase wear rates. Stock shocks are designed to handle stock springs. When you add lowering/aftermarket springs, they are usually stiffer than stock, so you will wear out stock shocks faster, just like cut springs. Also, you won’t necessarily hit the bump stops, but more likely to hit them with cut stock springs(and aftermarket as well). As for bouncy, again, stiffer springs with stock shocks will increase bounce, but depending on how stiff the springs are will dictate the bounce.

Lastly, when you go to sell your car, you're going to have a set of springs installed that is going to make it almost impossible to sell/trade-in the car. In this day and age, no one is going to buy a car with hacked up springs due to all of the above along with the possible safety issues, tire wear issues, etc. Where you could have bought aftermarket springs, and gone back to stock to sell it, you will be stuck buying new stock springs which will cost a lot more than the aftermarket springs you could have bought in the first place.

If he “forgets” to tell the new owner of the new springs, there’s a good chance that someone wouldn’t see cut springs(or aftermarket for that matter). If it gets put on a lift, that’s a different story. When I traded in my car for my Ex, they drove it around the block and that was it, so there could be many things wrong underneath, but they wouldn’t have noticed.

In the end, I agree that aftermarket springs would be a better option, but I can’t disagree with the OP on the improvement in looks for little money invested.

 

[jran76]

Agree with most of this, but are you certain cutting springs removes the “soft” portion? What if he cut off the other end? I don’t know the workings of all vehicle springs, but I know the springs on my mustang, have one end that is soft, the other end is stiff.



I agree that you don’t know what the spring rate is once you cut them. Any time you change(usually increasing) the spring rate(whether cutting stock springs or adding aftermarket) though, you will increase wear rates. Stock shocks are designed to handle stock springs. When you add lowering/aftermarket springs, they are usually stiffer than stock, so you will wear out stock shocks faster, just like cut springs. Also, you won’t necessarily hit the bump stops, but more likely to hit them with cut stock springs(and aftermarket as well). As for bouncy, again, stiffer springs with stock shocks will increase bounce, but depending on how stiff the springs are will dictate the bounce.



If he “forgets” to tell the new owner of the new springs, there’s a good chance that someone wouldn’t see cut springs(or aftermarket for that matter). If it gets put on a lift, that’s a different story. When I traded in my car for my Ex, they drove it around the block and that was it, so there could be many things wrong underneath, but they wouldn’t have noticed.

In the end, I agree that aftermarket springs would be a better option, but I can’t disagree with the OP on the improvement in looks for little money invested.

On most progressive springs now, both he top and bottom portion is softer as both compress first. I can't say for sure on the Explorer since I have not had them off to look at them, and it is hard to tell from the pics posted here. I will say, they definitely are not as progressive as some springs I have seen recently, so that will help with anyone wanting to do something similar.

As far as cut springs versus aftermarket springs used with stock shocks, I think there is one big difference.... The aftermarket springs have been engineered by a real suspension engineer to properly balance ride height, spring rate, and ride quality in conjunction with the stock shocks/bump stops. By cutting a stock spring, you have no control over any of the above (well, maybe ride height with some trial and error). Stiffer aftermarket springs can actually help limit the amount of wear on stock shocks if done correctly (i.e. mild drop, slightly stiffer, and properly engineered).

I think any reasonable person buying the OP's car down the road that looks at the ride height is going to want to know what's up. More than likely you would be trading it in, and any competent car dealer is going to figure it out pretty fast. I can promise you, they will either require that it goes back to stock, not take it as a trade at all, or give an extreme low-ball offer.

 

[gns30]

jran76, good points all around. I'm not concerned with returning the car to stock, no big issue there. Springs can be found online, ebay, craigslist and what not. I would definitely replace them, I actually did with a 07 GT that I ran cut springs on for 6 years. Before I sold the car I put sportlines on which kept the same height and ride believe it or not, then still sold the cut springs on craigslist.

As far as the dealer wanting it returned to stock, not really an issue either. I traded in my 2010 S4 that was lowered with H&R OE sport springs and the dealer loved the stance. They sold the car in 2 days! I only mention that cause I see you are familiar with Audi in your sig! Oh and if you need a set of untouched s4 springs let me know cause they are collecting dust in my garage, hahha.

I keep hearing people say that aftermarket springs are meant to reduce wear on struts/shocks by design and thats just not the case. Any true performance spring is going to shorten the shocks travel, most people forget to trim or replace bump stops and the increased spring weight tears them up, once again regardless of how that is done, ie cut springs or aftermarket.

If any of you guys are ever in the area feel free to PM me and we can meet up and I'll give you a ride so you can judge for yourself. Once again, I'm not telling anyone to not by springs, if you want to throw money around thats fine. I've noticed as car prices go up , the less people take chances on them, haha. I find it odd that some people will throw down 600-700 bucks on a test pipe, aka no cat, but this drives people crazy. Its all what your into I guess.

 

[JETZ]

I see a lot of people claiming to chime in simply to inform others of what they may possibly be getting in to. Is this a forum for teenage girls? Last I checked not many are driving Ford Explorers around. Also does no one ever buy a car and keep it any more? 99.9% of the arguments I ever see on here is usually someone's own personal opinion and then try and back it up with "oh well what if you want sell it?" to try and not come off as a ******. I would honestly hope anyone and everyone who comes in to the "Modified" section of these forums look up that definition in the dictionary. I would also hope anyone and everyone who purchases a vehicle also understands how a warranty works and should know that pretty much any (here's the key word) "modifications" to the vehicle that is not an official authorized Ford part/accessory is at your own risk, and should consult your dealer if you are ever in doubt instead of relying on peoples knowledge they obtained from someone who knew someone on the internet. Can these forums just get back to people doing mods and being able to show them off without the entire thread being derailed by negative nancys? What is the point of having a modified section if all its going to be is criticism and the warranty police chiming in, is it just for post counts? Lets get this modified section back to modifications, if you want to look at stock and discuss warranties and ethics then go to the "stock" thread. They are separate for a reason. /end rant

 

[amd2800barton]

I can't tell you how many times that I've wanted to make this same rant. Thank you.

 

[jran76]

jran76, good points all around. I'm not concerned with returning the car to stock, no big issue there. Springs can be found online, ebay, craigslist and what not. I would definitely replace them, I actually did with a 07 GT that I ran cut springs on for 6 years. Before I sold the car I put sportlines on which kept the same height and ride believe it or not, then still sold the cut springs on craigslist.

As far as the dealer wanting it returned to stock, not really an issue either. I traded in my 2010 S4 that was lowered with H&R OE sport springs and the dealer loved the stance. They sold the car in 2 days! I only mention that cause I see you are familiar with Audi in your sig! Oh and if you need a set of untouched s4 springs let me know cause they are collecting dust in my garage, hahha.

I keep hearing people say that aftermarket springs are meant to reduce wear on struts/shocks by design and thats just not the case. Any true performance spring is going to shorten the shocks travel, most people forget to trim or replace bump stops and the increased spring weight tears them up, once again regardless of how that is done, ie cut springs or aftermarket.

If any of you guys are ever in the area feel free to PM me and we can meet up and I'll give you a ride so you can judge for yourself. Once again, I'm not telling anyone to not by springs, if you want to throw money around thats fine. I've noticed as car prices go up , the less people take chances on them, haha. I find it odd that some people will throw down 600-700 bucks on a test pipe, aka no cat, but this drives people crazy. Its all what your into I guess.

My posts were not directed at you. Someone had mentioned people had been cutting springs forever, and I just wanted to make sure others understood what had changed over the past 30 years. The fact you posted the write-up, tells me you have some idea what you are doing/getting into.

I think the situation with the H&R OE springs on the B8 S4 is a little different. That's a 1" drop (a little over) with a proven solution. You have as much as a 3" drop, and there will be some unknowns to a dealer/buyer. Again, not an issue for you obviously, but maybe for others. Hah, I have four suspension setups for the S4 in my garage right now, so I probably don't need anymore.... (stock, ST coilovers, H&R OE springs, and Stasis/Ohlins coilovers installed- yes I change suspensions like underwear)

I agree that all aftermarket springs increase wear on the shock. There is no way around that. Some just limit it more than others. I think your B8 S4 with the OE springs is a great example. It's a mild drop with a slightly stiffer spring, and the B8 S4 shock has proven to be a good match for it (people easily get over 80k miles on this setup now). That is still an unknown with the Explorer. Knowing Ford, I don't think their shocks are in the same league as the B8 S4 (for the record, previous generations of the S4's shocks were not good for lowering).

 

[jran76]

I see a lot of people claiming to chime in simply to inform others of what they may possibly be getting in to. Is this a forum for teenage girls? Last I checked not many are driving Ford Explorers around. Also does no one ever buy a car and keep it any more? 99.9% of the arguments I ever see on here is usually someone's own personal opinion and then try and back it up with "oh well what if you want sell it?" to try and not come off as a ******. I would honestly hope anyone and everyone who comes in to the "Modified" section of these forums look up that definition in the dictionary. I would also hope anyone and everyone who purchases a vehicle also understands how a warranty works and should know that pretty much any (here's the key word) "modifications" to the vehicle that is not an official authorized Ford part/accessory is at your own risk, and should consult your dealer if you are ever in doubt instead of relying on peoples knowledge they obtained from someone who knew someone on the internet. Can these forums just get back to people doing mods and being able to show them off without the entire thread being derailed by negative nancys? What is the point of having a modified section if all its going to be is criticism and the warranty police chiming in, is it just for post counts? Lets get this modified section back to modifications, if you want to look at stock and discuss warranties and ethics then go to the "stock" thread. They are separate for a reason. /end rant

I am pretty sure this is a "discussion" forum.... It says so at the top of the page. Nothing negative here towards the OP. I just think it warrants discussion for anyone else thinking about doing it. The fact is, it is a controversial topic, and both sides should be discussed so others can weigh all sides. Kudos to the OP for taking the time to do the write-up. I am sure someone will find it useful, and be happy with the results. I'm also sure someone will read the rest of this, decide against cutting their springs, and it will be the right move for them. That's the way a community discussion forum should work. Let's not get too worked up about the rest. I have two cars that are modified well beyond anything on here; including one under warranty from Audi which is probably more strict than any other manufacturer when it comes to modifications and warranty. I modify cars for a living, so I'm definitely not some anti-modification person....

 

[slikirish]

You're completely negating the fact that this is for mods........(I used more periods), non factory customizations that obviously aren't covered under warranty. The truth is, no one would even consider this mod at all if they were worried about a warranty or about issues selling the vehicle later down the road. Its as black and white as that. Like I said, these forums are turning in to a bunch of cry babies who come in to pretty much every mod thread and complain about something or other instead of just commenting on the work and giving them props for doing what they did. You could have easily discussed without throwing in the crap about selling it later on and how no one would buy it blah blah. You realize how many polished turds are sold every day with mods way crazier than this, as you said yourself you do all kinds of mods. So just get off your high horse and your one sided point of view, and stop trying to cover your tracks. If I wanted to read negativity and so called experts opinions all day long I would be on Facebook. Its just we have a stock thread and a modified thread, so why cant we just keep the obvious out of each and every thread that exists? Sad thing is instead of people like you just realizing a good point when its made, you go all defensive and continue to do what you do, until guys like me get tired of reading the same crap over and over and you kill the forums from anyone with any actual insight because they are tired of dealing with this nonsense. Get back to saying good work, asking questions, discussing and leaving the obvious, unrelated, completely off topic stuff out of it. He posted this up and immediately the trolls came rolling in to feed. Its getting old and the modified forums are dying more and more because of this

Gotta agree with this guy. I decided to lower mine on H&Rs and I'm not real happy with how it sits. Check out my other threads.

This guy did something on his own. He's got some balls since he did it without a precedence to go by. It may not be for everyone, but he's happy, he provided some good info and contributed to the site. If nothing else, his pictures and walk through could be helpful to someone that wants to install H&Rs at home.

Nowhere did the guy say "hey retards, just cut your stock springs and get the same thing as H&Rs. Come be cool like me", but based on how some of you have reacted, I had to re-read what he wrote to make sure that didn't happen.

 

[Smitty814]

Airborn, well said.

Kevin

 

[amd2800barton]

It doesn't help that the moderator for this sub-forum doesn't own an Explorer anymore, and thinks that the factory knows best.

 

[jran76]

The funny part is all these diatribes have nothing to do with the topic at hand. Good job, I guess I'm the cry baby. That's funny. I would rather someone crap on my thread with a real discussion about the topic at hand versus some internet forum vigilantism. I'm going to leave this alone as not to crap on the OP's somewhat useful thread any further. If you guys have a problem with the way this discussion forum works, start a new thread, or PM me and we can take care of it. There is some good information here on both sides of the OP's original topic.

 

[jran76]

None of which came from you.



Thank you for not crapping on the OPs "somewhat useful" post any further!

You're a joke. What have you added to this thread since you're such an internet superhero? I'm pretty sure most reasonable people would agree with at least some of what I said. You obviously have some other agenda and problems. Get over yourself.... You're not saving the internet. You don't know me or what I do, and if you did you would realize how stupid what you are saying is.

 

[jran76]

And I need to get over myself.
My only point was to say I'm tired of trolls like you coming into every modified thread and throwing crap around like a bunch of monkeys at a zoo. I've clearly made my point and have exposed you for what you are. From what I can see others have come and chimed in to agree with me, yet here you go trolling on and on. I don't need to go any further. I hope at least I can help some members interested in mods, see who's posts not to pay any attention to. Good day, ill be done now, I don't want to pay your toll any longer.

Trolling:Being a ##### on the internet because you can. Typically unleashing one or more cynical or sarcastic remarks on an innocent by-stander, because it's the internet and, hey, you can.

Isn't that what you're doing in this thread? Again, what I posted was relevant to the topic at hand. You, not so much. Read all of my posts, and see if you think I am trolling compared to what you are doing here. I'm not sure what you think you have exposed me as other than someone that understands suspension tuning a lot more than you, and has no problem discussing technical information (something you have yet to do in this thread).
--------------------------------

As far as I know its simply to help get the engine at the desired temp sooner.
Heres a link
http://www.tuneruniversity.com/blog/2012/04/low-temp-thermostats-whats-the-advantage/
from reading that info it doesn't seem like it is a necessity at all, some just desire to use it, that being said in relation to your vehicle in NY and wanting it to be warmer faster, a lower temp thermostat should help you accomplish this

If I wanted to troll I would point out that you are clueless as those monkeys you are talking about. You don't even know why you would use the low-temp thermostat that you have installed on your own car (err, if you would have actually read the link you posted, you would have known). Just so you know, a low-temp thermostat does exactly the opposite of what you stated. A thermostat is used to get the engine up to temp; a lower-temp thermostat is an attempt to keep the engine cooler/delay it getting hotter in higher boost/heat situations you would see with a tune; albeit not a great solution as the article you linked points out it does nothing to prevent high temps once at operating temp.

Hopefully a mod will clean all of this up, but I'll keep going as long as you want if you really want to play this game. I can tell you're an internet badass.

 

[broken strut]

Looks good. Nice job.

 

[gns30]

Wow, well this got a little off subject, hahah. Guys, I have no issue with people agreeing or disagreeing with things that I do with my vehicles or what others do with theirs. Everyone has an opinion and experiences. The only issue I have is when someone just comes in and flat out says someone is retarded for whatever reason without stating why that is and especially if they have no experience other than what they've read on the internet.

We all come to these forums to learn from each other, either good or bad. Some of the things we do work out great and help others. Some of the things we do, well just break things, but it still helps others by not making the same mistakes.

Lets keep the forums open for learning and contributing. Sure voice your opinions, but if you're gonna preach on a subject at least have something to back it up other than that "opinion".

As for the mods, if you wanna clean this up or shut this thread down thats fine with me. I hope some of this was useful, if not then do what you see fit.

 

[Quicksilver]

I had hoped Megan Racing would have had a lowering solution for us by now- like they have done for the SHO's. It's pretty much universally agreed that their ride quality is better than stock and the cars have much better control. I live local to their LA shop and have offered up my Ex Sport for development even if they needed it a week or so. Even after many emails and a few threads to generate interest from potential buyers on a couple different forums, it doesn't seem like they are moving forward with producing the coil over kits for the Sports Maybe they are too busy with other projects or don't think they will sell enough kits to make it a profitable venture. I've ridden in a Ex Sport with the Flex H&R's and didn't care for the ride quality they produced and I've used cut springs on other project cars to adjust right height with good results. So thank you GNS30 for the pics and well written thread and especially the measurements of the before and after heights. I'm after a bit less drop than you were, primarily because I am running larger than stock tires( mostly to improve ride quality) so I'll measure and cut a full coil front and 3/4 coil rear. I too like some rake and want to keep that stance. Good info GNS30, haters gotta hate, it's what they do best

 

[gns30]

I too like some rake and want to keep that stance.

Let us see how it looks when you get done! So far I am loving the look and the ride, nothing but compliments!

 

[fourZero]

Wow, well this got a little off subject, hahah. Guys, I have no issue with people agreeing or disagreeing with things that I do with my vehicles or what others do with theirs. Everyone has an opinion and experiences. The only issue I have is when someone just comes in and flat out says someone is retarded for whatever reason without stating why that is and especially if they have no experience other than what they've read on the internet.

We all come to these forums to learn from each other, either good or bad. Some of the things we do work out great and help others. Some of the things we do, well just break things, but it still helps others by not making the same mistakes.

Lets keep the forums open for learning and contributing. Sure voice your opinions, but if you're gonna preach on a subject at least have something to back it up other than that "opinion".

As for the mods, if you wanna clean this up or shut this thread down thats fine with me. I hope some of this was useful, if not then do what you see fit.

Cutting springs is ghetto, and here is the engineering behind it: http://craig.backfire.ca/pages/autos/cutting-springs

This is a "luxury" SUV, do yourself a favor and modify properly or not at all.

 

[gns30]

Cutting springs is ghetto, and here is the engineering behind it: http://craig.backfire.ca/pages/autos/cutting-springs

This is a "luxury" SUV, do yourself a favor and modify properly or not at all.

fourZero, thanks for our insightful response, it really helps the community out! I see you will be a valued member here in the future. Please tell me more about your internet knowledge and search abilities!