delayed 1-2 shift, no lockup over 70 km/h

[zpn_by]

Hi all - I hope it's not the death knell for my tranny, but as it looks to be the second transmission in the truck, who knows....

First, I haven't gotten any formal diagnosis done yet - that's coming tonight, after I get the code read and the fluid checked. (2002 4.6L 4x4, class II hitch, 167,000 km/just over 100,000 mi)

Yesterday I was driving the truck and had to take off kind of quick from a driveway to make a left across a busy 5-lane road. As I was doing so, I noticed that it didn't shift into second when it usually would, and held first for a while longer than normal. Further drive testing confirmed this to be the case. What's happening is that the trans will hold first until about 3000 rpm, then shift to second. This happens regardless of how I accelerate. It will carry on in second for a short time, then eventually shift into third and so on. 3-4 and 4-5 happen at normal RPM. At one point during the remaining 5km (3mi) drive home on city streets, the truck beeped and the OD light started flashing, with the usual (oh no!) CHECK TRANSMISSION warning. (I'd love to check the transmission, but someone forgot to put in a dipstick!!!!). The light kept flashing until I got home and shut down. Upon restarting, the light was off and hasn't re-occurred. My scanner only does engine DTC's, so I'll be taking it to my neighbour's garage tonight to get the transmission code scanned, which I'll post here. I also don't know the fluid level or condition at this time.

The delayed shift problem repeats every time it accelerates, so it's always present now. I've been able to get the transmission to shift into second a little earlier by accelerating to 2500 in first (gently) then lifting off as if doing a granny shift with a manual, and then easing into the throttle again. That said, i was able to get to "lockup" speed this morning, and the converter didn't lock, so now my drive is taking a bit more gas...

Any thoughts on what it might be? I'm wondering if it's simply a low fluid problem, meaning that the transmission can't build enough line pressure to trigger a shift out of first, and to lock up the converter. Please don't let that comment steer the responses though. I've never had a full-on leak from this, only a little seepage from the drain plug since I bought the truck two years ago. I've only put on 25,000 km (less than 16,000 mi) and most of that was in the past year. There has never been a drip on the driveway, just a damp drain plug. The fluid that has come out looks like the normal red Mercon V fluid. I know, I should have checked it sooner, but being in school with two young kids determined where the money went.

I hope to have more info to post here shortly, as to fluid level and condition, and the code which was generated. Thanks for your constructive input!

 

[BrooklynBay]

These transmissions have known servo bore & solenoid block issues which usually occur after 60K miles. You should start with having the codes read, and checking the fluid level. The old fluid & filter probably have to be replaced by now anyway since it's been in there for so long.

 

[Turdle]

You might check the throttle position sensor also. Too high of output causes downshifting, delayed shifting.

 

[zpn_by]

That's the plan, and the funny part. When I was under it after buying it, I noticed that the transmission housing had a shot of silver spray paint on it. Plus the crossmember had obviously been out of it before. I suspect that the transmission has been replaced, but who knows what's in there right now (age, condition, etc)

 

[zpn_by]

Thanks turtle. I'll check that too. Once upon a time there was a kickdown cable that could stick, which happened on my old cougar.

 

[zpn_by]

P0732 second gear incorrect ratio. No check of fluid level (seems extraneous at this point)

Was told that I'd be looking at a transmission replacement or overhaul.

Any thoughts on this?

Any thoughts how long it can last like this?

 

[zpn_by]

Bump.... Any thought folks? Thinking to try and sell as is full disclosure. Hope for the best.

If there is any other opinion on how to deal with this, I'm all ears please!


EDIT: THE TRUCK WAS SCANNED WITH A SNAP-ON TOOL

 

[JK080]

Sounds like the OD band is not able to apply, its used in second gear and in fifth gear. The most common reasons why this happens is the band can break or the servo that applies the band can break. The only hope to fix this without rebuilding it is if the servo is broken, it can be replaced without removing the transmission. The band is inside the case and would require a disassembly of the transmission to replace.

A couple of ways to tell if its the servo or the band is to check the band adjustment, it is set to two turns out so if it screws in more than three turns the band is broke, if it stops at or before three turns it might be the servo. Removing the pan will allow you to see the band, if its real loose or if there is band strut in the pan the band is broken, if the strut is in place and the band is somewhat snug it could be servo.

 

[zpn_by]

Thanks for your attention jk080! I should mention that I had also been having a flare sometimes on the 2-3 shift before Thursday's failure.

So either way I should be looking at the servo bore, but if the band is the problem, I'll have to disassemble the transmission to replace that band. I'm guessing that any driving or movement should be limited or avoided altogether? I can let it sit for the next three weeks at least.

If it is the band, requiring a disassembly, is there anything else I should look for when it's open? And are there any resources for a transmission rebuild? I'm finishing a new workshop outside, so I guess I may have found m first project for it!

Thanks again.

 

[JK080]

There are other spots that need to be looked at if you go inside the tranny, the servo bores require a tool to machine to allow the installation of a sleeve.

If you decide to go about this yourself read up on the 5R55S/W transmission, there is good info on this site. Keep us posted and we can help guide you in the right direction.

 

[zpn_by]

Just to confirm, is the adjustment screw for the overdrive band on the outside of the case? I've seen the ATSG manual for this tranny, and the diagram appears to indicate thus is the case.
If I decide to tackle this and I find the band is broken or faulty, is there anything I should look for inside to indicate it's been worked on before? As I said, the transmission may be a replacement. You mentioned there are other things to check if it's open - what would be the bare minimum to check?

Thanks again! I have some things to take care of first, and may tackle this in two weeks or so.

 

[Stenrick]

Just to confirm, is the adjustment screw for the overdrive band on the outside of the case?

I'm not a guru, but at least I can help you out on this question. The adjustment is on the outside of the case on the left (driver's) side of the transmission, if you are adjusting the O/D band, you don't have to remove the neutral safety switch, since it's the band closest to the bell housing. However, if you're under there adjusting one band, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to adjust them both.

 

[BrooklynBay]

Check my signature for a link to the band adjustment thread.

 

[zpn_by]

Thanks everyone! I'll be checking into this in a couple of weeks. Just trying to get as much advance info as I possibly can before, so I know what I'm getting into. I have a sneaking suspicion that I'll be dropping the transmission before this is all over. At least my next door neighbour is a mechanic! Although I'll need to get the truck high enough in the driveway to get the transmission out....

I'll post back later on once I crack into it. In the meantime, if anyone else has anything to offer, it's greatly appreciated!

 

[zpn_by]

sweet! just found out that the OD band will be less than $50. That definitely puts it in the affordable category. The 12L of fluid, and a new filter, with some gaskets, and I should be smiling. That said, once it passes the test drive after the repair, it's getting a for sale sign! If it doesn't pass the test drive, it's getting a sign with a smaller price and an explanation! lol. Thanks again everyone. Should be cracking into this come labour day weekend...

 

[zpn_by]

So Labour day weekend came and went, but weather wasn't co-operating, so I had to wait, and my work shed was still in progress. Now, the shed is done, and ready for a project. (gee, i wonder what I should do first?)

I'm planning to get under the truck on Saturday to see how the adjustment is. That will determine where I go from there. Having said that, based on further research, I will likely be subject to the servo bore wearing, and am considering getting the machined servo pistons from A1JE - so far I've seen positive feedback about their parts, but I'd really like to be sure before ordering from them. I can get the OD piston for about $50CDN from the dealer nearby, but of course theirs is $120 with the o-rings, which is just a little difference. If it works, and I won't see the problem recur for another 100,000 km, then it's likely worth the extra $70 to me, especially if it saves pulling the tranny for sleeving and a rebuild.

Any thoughts on this? I'll report back after I check the adjustment of the bands, for any further advice or opinions.

Thanks again everyone.

 

[zpn_by]

OK then. Just finished out in the driveway, and I'll tell you it's not a fun job to try and do on your back. Got everything out of the way to start doing the band adjustment, and tried to back off the lock nut - do you think that little bugger would budge from the set screw? NO WAY. Tried every permutation I could to get it to go, even using a little heat (had used a non-flammable penetrant on it a few hours before as a first step) but nothing made it move.

Bottom line, going to have to take it in, will have the band adjusted, and if it will adjust, will see about getting the servo piston removed and checked to see if it's broken. I tried to get the snap ring off, but I couldn't get the right angle while on my back, and had had enough by this point. Just going to have to break down to have someone check it for me.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions, as it's still steering the troubleshooting, just that it will be done by someone else. I'll keep the thread updated with the news...

 

[zpn_by]

Well, I solved my transmission problem!

I traded the truck.

I realized last week after the above post that I didn't have time anymore to fiddle and fart around with the blasted thing.

Ford's engineers and accountants should be taken to task for having built the transmission the way they did. Although I guess that since it fails out of warranty (even if the customer buys an extended warranty, at 70,000 miles average failure it's well beyond the mileage limits) it makes for a nice little present for the dealer's service department, so everyone is happy, except the owner of the POS transmission.

I loved the truck for most other things, but the little things added onto this big thing, and it was enough. For the record, it was traded with disclosure about the transmission "It's started acting up a little lately - you need to lift to get it to shift out of first. I don't know what it is - I'm not a mechanic" Technically completely correct - no official confirmation of the problem, so I can sleep tonight.

I'll hang out on the forums for a while though - you're all a good bunch of folks!

 

[BrooklynBay]

What did you get to replace the Explorer?

 

[zpn_by]

What did you get to replace the Explorer?

I ended up with a 2015 Hyundai Elantra GL with the 6-speed manual. Between the stick and the 5 year warranty on a 5 year lease, I don't think I'll ever have to worry about a transmission problem out of my pocket again. Now we have two vehicles in warranty (my wife's RAV has it for another 3.5 years).

I didn't want to get a Hyundai, but I have two kids in booster seats, and I'm 6' tall, so I needed a little more space than the domestics were offering (REALLY wanted a Focus SE but too cramped back there, and don't get me started on the Cruze - I had that as a rental and would not purposely drive one again.)

Thanks again guys!