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Spare not hub centric

adamantium

Active Member
Joined
March 27, 2013
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City, State
Orlando, FL
Year, Model & Trim Level
2013 Ford Explorer Sport
Had the luxury of using my spare for the first time after getting a large puncture. Noticed while mounting that it wasn't hub centric. There is a 1/8 inch gap between the hub and center hole on the spare. That means the weight if the vehicle is supported by friction, clamping force of the lugs, and sheer strength of the studs instead of being supported by the hub shoulder. Anyone else's like this? Do I have the wrong spare maybe?
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My guess is they used a universal Ford spare wheel on most of their vehicles. Most wheels out there aren't hub centric. While hub centric wheels are "safer" it's not a big deal, just make sure you center the wheels and loosely tighten each lugnut until the wheel is centered and tightened completely.
 






People worry about the darnedest things! I never knew that until I got on these message boards.
 






If it were a small car I wouldn't worry too much. Since its a 5000 lb. leviathan riding on a pizza cutter of a wheel I have some concern. All my other cars have spares that fit the hub and thought it was the norm for a modern car. Maybe I'm just nitpicking.
 






It's just the car companies nowadays saving money be using the same wheels on different models. It's just a tempary tire so slow speeds and minimum mileage usage.
 






The only reason OEM's use hub centric wheels at the factory is because it's faster on the assembly line when they torque all 5 lug nuts at the same time. Hub centric keeps the wheel centered during this process. Hub centric rims are not designed to pass any load through the hub. A wheel is held onto the car not by shear load through the studs, but by the friction between the back of the wheel and the surface on the brake rotor. All the lugnuts do is create enough clamping load to create enough friction. As long as you tighten the lugs in a star shaped pattern you don't have to worry about the spare not being hub centric.
 






Hub centric is very very important, not being hub centric causes car pulling to the right or left wheel vibrating at high speeds yes its just a temporary tire but it should not be the whole weight is on the lugs not the hub where it should be...!
 






The only reason OEM's use hub centric wheels at the factory is because it's faster on the assembly line when they torque all 5 lug nuts at the same time. Hub centric keeps the wheel centered during this process. Hub centric rims are not designed to pass any load through the hub. A wheel is held onto the car not by shear load through the studs, but by the friction between the back of the wheel and the surface on the brake rotor. All the lugnuts do is create enough clamping load to create enough friction. As long as you tighten the lugs in a star shaped pattern you don't have to worry about the spare not being hub centric.

Correct! It's good to see someone that understands how bolted assemblies work.
 






Hub centric is very very important, not being hub centric causes car pulling to the right or left wheel vibrating at high speeds yes its just a temporary tire but it should not be the whole weight is on the lugs not the hub where it should be...!

Sorry but you're mistaken here. The weight of the vehicle is NOT on the lugs and definitely NOT supposed to be on the hub. Think about it, would you want all that weight on those little hubs and bearings? The wheel is held on by the friction on the back of the wheel and the face of the rotor, the lug nuts create enough clamping force to create enough friction. No weight of the vehicle is passed on to the hub. If you personally know any OEM wheel engineers I suggest you ask them and guarantee you will get the same response. Hub centric is ONLY used to to make it faster on the assembly line to put the wheels on.
 






Hub centric is very very important, not being hub centric causes car pulling to the right or left wheel vibrating at high speeds yes its just a temporary tire but it should not be the whole weight is on the lugs not the hub where it should be...!

No.

If a lug stud were to carry the load of the vehicle, it wouldn't for long. the wheel would shear off the stud. As stated above by Riley, the lug nuts generate a clamping force between the wheel and the hub. This is what carries the load. Friction.

If that tiny lip of the hub that sticks out where to carry the load, it would also need to completely center the wheel. In order to center the wheel and not have a massive vibration at speed, the fit between the wheel and the hub lip would need to be tight. Like "need a 10 ton press to ensure proper fitment" tight. Have you ever used a press to change your wheels? Or used a puller to remove them? Even with "hub centric rings" there is a gap between the wheel's center bore and the hub flange.

Ever wondered why lug nuts are shaped the way they are? They are tapered. Why not just use regular nuts, that are flat? The taper helps to center the lug nut into the wheel hole. If you tighten your lug nuts evenly while the wheel is in the air, it'll center the wheel very easily.
 












Sorry but you're mistaken here. The weight of the vehicle is NOT on the lugs and definitely NOT supposed to be on the hub. Think about it, would you want all that weight on those little hubs and bearings? The wheel is held on by the friction on the back of the wheel and the face of the rotor, the lug nuts create enough clamping force to create enough friction. No weight of the vehicle is passed on to the hub. If you personally know any OEM wheel engineers I suggest you ask them and guarantee you will get the same response. Hub centric is ONLY used to to make it faster on the assembly line to put the wheels on.

And what do you think the studs are pressed into? The hub. And what does the brake rotor and accompanying wheel get bolted to? The hub. And what does the hub attach to that allows it to rotate? The wheel bearing. So as you can see, the entire weight of the vehicle is in fact riding on those little hubs and bearings.
 






Hub centric is very very important, not being hub centric causes car pulling to the right or left wheel vibrating at high speeds yes its just a temporary tire but it should not be the whole weight is on the lugs not the hub where it should be...!
Given that the temp spare has a 60 mph (or less) speed limit, high-speed cruise isn't that critical.

The temp spare, by its very nature, is a short-distance and low-speed solution. The difference in traction between the normal road tires and the temp tire is much more of a safety concern than the mounting nature. If you're putting on high cornering and acceleration loads on the temp wheel / tire combo, you'll create other problems long before the load on the attachment scheme comes to light.
 






And what do you think the studs are pressed into? The hub. And what does the brake rotor and accompanying wheel get bolted to? The hub. And what does the hub attach to that allows it to rotate? The wheel bearing. So as you can see, the entire weight of the vehicle is in fact riding on those little hubs and bearings.

Yes the hub carries the load, but it's not carried through the hub flange. It's carried into the hub via the friction generated from the clamping force provided by the lug nuts.

Look at the pictures in the original post. See how even that gap is all around? It's like........ perfectly even. Are we to believe that this person somehow got it totally centered while changing a wheel on the side of the road with the weight for the wheel trying to do everything in its power to fight you as you tighten each lug nut? What with gravity being the ***** that it is and everything. Speed limited temporary spare or not, this thing will not transmit vibrations because the conical shape of the lug nuts pulled the wheel into perfect concentricity around the hub flange. Same thing is happening behind the center cap on your factory alloy wheels. You just can't see it because of the center cap.
 






So in a nut shell, hub centric does NOT matter one bit on wheels.
 






I have a 2001 330i bmw and i had replaced all for rims when i had the installed the car was pulling to the right. I then went back to the tire shop and asked for a wheel alignment the tech asked me why i need a wheel alignment and i explained he then said to me that i had to get the hub centric rings i then called tire discount.com and they shipped me the rings and that was the end of the pulling and shimming. So i guess the hub centric rings are very important....., so what is the response to this..?
 






I have a 2001 330i bmw and i had replaced all for rims when i had the installed the car was pulling to the right. I then went back to the tire shop and asked for a wheel alignment the tech asked me why i need a wheel alignment and i explained he then said to me that i had to get the hub centric rings i then called tire discount.com and they shipped me the rings and that was the end of the pulling and shimming. So i guess the hub centric rings are very important....., so what is the response to this..?

BMWs use lug bolts instead of 60* tapered lug nuts. For some reason, cars that use lug bolts can't hold the wheel steady as well as lug nuts. Plus, if your wheel didn't have a lot of contact area to the hub face, then there's less frictional area to resist that sliding movement. And if you didn't tighten the lugs with the wheel in the air, that will also contribute.

Think about it: when you stick a bolt (or a dowel pin) in a hole, the ones that go in easy, there is some slop in the fitment, the ones that don't go in easy need to be lined up perfectly and requires some force to get the pin in the hole. If this is a wheel, slop = dangerous vibrations. Now imagine Susie Homemaker is changing a tire on the side of the highway. She lifts the new tire into place and needs to not only line up the lug studs to the wheel holes but also needs to line up the hub bore and then push it (force it) onto the hub? I don't think so. I've changed LOTS of wheels (I use to autox and crew for road race teams) and have never had to force a wheel onto the hub.

Plus forcing an aluminum wheel onto a steel hub flange....... Aluminum is soft, steel is hard. The wheel hub bore would get "wallowed" out after awhile and not be round if this were the case. And then that non-round hub bore would be a nightmare to get centered up.

Instead here's what you should do: go jack up your Explorer and take the wheel off. Then put it back on- but just held in place with your hand. Notice how the lug studs are positioned in the wheel holes- you may need to push the wheel and hold it so it sits flat against the hub/brake rotor. You'll probably notice that the studs are "high" in the holes. If it was hub centric, they would be completely centered except for any clocking of the wheel. Now only put on the top most lug nut. As the tapered part of the lug nut engages the tapered part of the wheel, watch what happens to the position of the wheel. It moves the wheel up! Don't tighten it to final torque just yet. Check the position of the other lug studs in their holes. Put another lug nut on- choose the one as directly opposite the installed lug nut as possible. Again, watch the wheel as the taper engages. Install the rest of the lug nuts and tighten them by going opposite to opposite until you've done all of them. Now torque them by placing something under the tire (your foot, a 2x4, a brick, a rock......) to keep the wheel from turning. Lower the Explorer and you're done.

And again, notice how perfectly centered that hub is to the center bore in the wheel pictured in the original post- and all without even touching it.
 






Tom, Put in the terms even a layman can understand (I hope). Common sense people, if you've ever changed a wheel/tire on most vehicles since the beginning of the automobile. I've never owned a vehicle that had hub centric wheels on it and I've owned over thirty vehicles from the 1950's to a 2013. The closest to a hub centric wheel on any vehicle I've ever had was a 1979 IH Sout II and a 1989 Jeep Grand Wagoneer (both had Dana 44's and the hubs were still slightly smaller than the hub bore hole on both factory wheels and aftermarket).
 






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