Should I Buy A New 2015 or 2016?

[Bill #5 Explorer]

Hi Everyone. Haven't post much in a while. Hope everyone is well.

Well, my 2011 Explorer now has 150,000 miles. Getting ready to buy a new one soon. Probably by November. This will be my 5th Explorer sine 2003 (2003, 2005, 2007 and my current 2011).

As the title says, should I buy a late leftover 2015, or go for the redesigned 2016? Why one of the other?

The main things I want are; Limited, moon-roof, and the 301A Option package.

Most of these are in the high-high $47-48,000:

1) What can I expect % off MSRP on a 2015?
2) What can I expect % off MSRP on a 2106?

Thank you in advance. I've been out of the pricing loop for several years now, and feel clueless.

 

[Stic-o]

When we bought our 2016 a month and a half ago, we could not find a 2015 the way we wanted it. That was why we bought a 2016

 

[patsy1099]

You will certainly get a better deal on a 15. If you can find one exactly the way you want it, that will be a bit better as far as $.

Rather than dealing with % off msrp it might be better to look at invoice. Many on this board have gotten the dealers to give them almost all of the 3% holdback (which is invoice - 3%) and that's been on a 2016. The dealer will almost certainly do that to get rid of a 2015 plus you get Ford financing deal plus some cash back (you can see those incentives on ford's website). You can also go to trucar to see the invoice pricing on the 2015/16. Good luck!

 

[Bill #5 Explorer]

Thank you Stic and Patsy, I'm a cash buyer, so any financing incentives are useless to me.

As for "invoice".....I just never trusted that game, because I don't believe they really show you the true document. But maybe I'm wrong.

Please keep the advice coming, everyone.

 

[Sgt1411]

Obviously an older model will have better incentives both from Ford and the dealership but if you buy a 15 model year your buying a refreshed version of what you have.

Just a suggestion but since your looking at November and aren't in a hurry wait till 16 model year ordering is cut off in March. Since the 16 model year was a refresh, to be honest there were issues at the Plant many of which people on here have expressed frustration with.

So you may find better incentives on the 16 model in March.

Im waiting for the 17 model year as it will be a little bit different with some minor updates especially SYNC3. Since you have a 2011 you owe it to yourself not to live through MFT again on a brand new vehicle.

I believe also for 17 model year all lights will be LED, minor yes, but worth waiting IMHO.

 

[Bill #5 Explorer]

Obviously an older model will have better incentives both from Ford and the dealership but if you buy a 15 model year your buying a refreshed version of what you have.

Just a suggestion but since your looking at November and aren't in a hurry wait till 16 model year ordering is cut off in March. Since the 16 model year was a refresh, to be honest there were issues at the Plant many of which people on here have expressed frustration with.

So you may find better incentives on the 16 model in March.

Im waiting for the 17 model year as it will be a little bit different with some minor updates especially SYNC3. Since you have a 2011 you owe it to yourself not to live through MFT again on a brand new vehicle.

I believe also for 17 model year all lights will be LED, minor yes, but worth waiting IMHO.

Thank you, Sgt1411, but I can't wait till March 2016.

What are the main issue now with the 2016s?

MFT is still farked-up after all these years? The MFT on my 2011 is running pretty OK, or maybe I've just become use to it and lowered my expectations.

 

[patsy1099]

Invoice price is believable, it's just that there are other financial incentives that might allow a dealer to discount BELOW invoice.

For starters Ford has a 3% holdback which means even if a dealer sold you the car at invoice (which IS actually the dealer's upfront cost) they would still make 3% of the MSRP price from Ford. They collect these holdbacks from Ford in the next quarter (?). So if a dealer really wants to sell you a vehicle, in order to hit certain sales numbers, they might give you most of their entire holdback. To calculate that, take the msrp of the vehicle you want * 3%, then take that number (say it's $1440) and subtract that from the invoice amount (all dealers will show you the invoice these days).

For example, say your vehicle had a total MSRP of 48k with options, 48k * 3% = $1440 (holdback amount). Ask dealer to show you the invoice, if it's 43k than the dealer's REAL cost is 43k-1440 or 41,560 so they can sell it to you for anything above that and still make money (plus any monthly/qtrly dealership incentives). Dealing off of msrp won't get you your best number, it's all off of invoice now.

All that said, the final price will depend on: how badly a dealer wants to sell you a vehicle and how good/ruthless you are at negotiating. In my example above any price from 41,560 (dealer cost after holdback) all the way up to 43,500 would be fair in my mind. The latter number represents a $500 OVER invoice price. Depending on what "you" think is fair, you might feel the dealer is entitled to make close to nothing (the 41,560 price) or you may be a really nice/fair guy and you might think that the dealer holdback is really theirs to keep (in its entirety) and that you will also allow them to make a few hundred above invoice (most consumers aren't that "fair" these days). If you go with a 2015 I definitely think you will get much closer to the "true dealer cost" (invoice - holdback) and depending on your will and negotiating skills, possibly pretty close on a 2016 as well.

 

[Bill #5 Explorer]

Invoice price is believable, it's just that there are other financial incentives that might allow a dealer to discount BELOW invoice.

For starters Ford has a 3% holdback which means even if a dealer sold you the car at invoice (which IS actually the dealer's upfront cost) they would still make 3% of the MSRP price from Ford. They collect these holdbacks from Ford in the next quarter (?). So if a dealer really wants to sell you a vehicle, in order to hit certain sales numbers, they might give you most of their entire holdback. To calculate that, take the msrp of the vehicle you want * 3%, then take that number (say it's $1440) and subtract that from the invoice amount (all dealers will show you the invoice these days).

For example, say your vehicle had a total MSRP of 48k with options, 48k * 3% = $1440 (holdback amount). Ask dealer to show you the invoice, if it's 43k than the dealer's REAL cost is 43k-1440 or 41,560 so they can sell it to you for anything above that and still make money (plus any monthly/qtrly dealership incentives). Dealing off of msrp won't get you your best number, it's all off of invoice now.

Thank you very much, Patsy. Great post.

 

[patsy1099]

welcome. I just updated it a bit

 

[lakersfreak]

When we bought our 2016 a month and a half ago, we could not find a 2015 the way we wanted it. That was why we bought a 2016

I'd say go with the 15! I just bought mine few weeks ago. Bought a limited and since its was a 15 I got a discount of $6,000 off MSRP plus 0% for 72 months. The best they can do on the 16 was $3,000 off and no 0% financing. Based on the 2 scenarios and amount of monthly payments it was either a 15 with $48K sticker price, or 16 with $41K....you get a lot more value now with the 15.

Considering the fact that the 15 and 16 are essentially the same car, minus the lights, you'r better off getting all the bells and whistles on the 15.

 

[JEFFSMACHINE]

Thank you Stic and Patsy, I'm a cash buyer, so any financing incentives are useless to me.

As for "invoice".....I just never trusted that game, because I don't believe they really show you the true document. But maybe I'm wrong.

Please keep the advice coming, everyone.

You can still finance , get the $500 finance rebate, then pay it off the next day.
I just did, but I waited a couple weeks to pay it off, and had to pay some finance charges. The finance charges are compounded daily,so pay it off quick.
There are no rules against this, and it has nothing to do with Your dealer.
Don't even tell the dealer, just call ford credit the day after sale.

 

[Sgt1411]

Thank you, Sgt1411, but I can't wait till March 2016.

What are the main issue now with the 2016s?

MFT is still farked-up after all these years? The MFT on my 2011 is running pretty OK, or maybe I've just become use to it and lowered my expectations.

When there are changes in a vehicle the assembly line has to change and things don't always work out as planned, albeit minor, the vehicles have some issues. It was described to me as "working out some kinks"

There's nothing wrong with a 2015 or 2016, I just prefer everything worked out before I purchase because I did the same as you and bought an early production 2011 that I had to Lemon Law back to Ford.

As far as MFT goes yes mine is relatively stable too, I just base my evaluation on the market place and what the competition is doing with multimedia and technology. Once a leader, Ford has hit rock bottom with MFT, and I guess its a sense of not wanting to get burned again.

Look at what GM is doing now in their vehicles with On*, navigation, and multimedia its outstanding. Even a base Hyundia or Kia multimedia does more now.

Again personal preference, if your someone who turns on the radio to the same station and leaves it there forever then MFT works fine. If you are a heavy user with text, voice, and wireless data demands then MFT is not worthy. Dont forget Apple CarPlay or Android Auto future proofing.


15 or 16 it's still a big chunk of change and I just can't see spending that money on something that is already depreciated with legacy technology inside it.

 

[cwescapexlt4x4]

if you like the 15 and don't mind the "old" style, go for it ... but don't wait til November as the selection won't be good on what you want vs. what's available and yes being a cash buyer is good, but not to the dealer. They get a "kick back" on the finance and as such, more willing to deal with you. Finance, get deal(s) and pay off ... best way.

 

[blwnsmoke]

Thank you Stic and Patsy, I'm a cash buyer, so any financing incentives are useless to me.

As for "invoice".....I just never trusted that game, because I don't believe they really show you the true document. But maybe I'm wrong.

Please keep the advice coming, everyone.

Invoice on KBB or NADA is not true invoice but if you are eligible for A/D/X/Z plan, they must show you the true invoice. This does not include the holdback mentioned above which is about 3%. I'm sure there are some hidden kickbacks on top of that for high sales volume etc but those are not disclosed to anyone. You also have to factor in the advertising fee which the dealer gets charged by Ford (different by region, vehicle and trim level) as well as the gas charge (for your full tank of gas)

Most dealers will NOT go into dealer holdback so don't expect it unless it is a vehicle that has been sitting for a while and they don't want to pay interest on it any longer. If you can, fantastic but that info above about most will is not correct.

Ironic that some on here complain about CS (not talking about you Bill) and not being told updates yet don't want the dealership/salesman to make any money.

If you want to get close to invoice without dealing with salesmen yet, go to NADA, build your Explorer (15 or 16), look at invoice and add about $550. That will be the dealer's true invoice before holdback.

If you find one on a lot that you like, feel free to PM me and I can tell you what Xplan is on it. Xplan will be within $100 over invoice so you know what you are looking at for pricing.

 

[1995E]

From a college student who is probably not the smartest in keeping a good bank account, I would suggest getting the 2016 if you can with the same options you would on the 2015.

Even then, I'd really suggest you wait it out because it seems like you paid off your Explorer, and SYNC 2 is going to be outdated. If you buy a 2015, it's just not worth that kind of money for such a small upgrade.

 

[stevesmith1328]

I just ordered a 2016 limited and kbb and edmunds was spot on for the invoice pricing. The only thing it didn't factor in was the gas charge and advertising which is different for each vehicle based on model and price. Just to give you an idea the msrp on the one I ordered was $48k and the advertising was $700 and gas charge was $52. I think you could get invoice price all day long but like blwnsmoke said the dealer holdback is a toss up. Every prior ford I have bought was always at invoice mostly because I was uneducated about the holdback. Due to a lot of competention for sales my area several dealers were advertising internet prices on their websites about $1250 under invoice so my local deal that I buy from ordered me one at that pricing. All depends on the market and how bad they need to move units.

 

[Bill #5 Explorer]

Thank you; Laker, Jeff, CWE, Smoke and Steve. Much appreciated.

 

[patsy1099]

Most dealers will NOT go into dealer holdback so don't expect it unless it is a vehicle that has been sitting for a while and they don't want to pay interest on it any longer. If you can, fantastic but that info above about most will is not correct.

I didn't think many dealers would eat into their holdback amount but if you read the Platinum posts about what people paid for their Platinums and Sports, many of them were more than $1000 below invoice which means the dealer ate into their holdback quite a bit. Not sure why. Maybe because they were Special orders and not sitting on their lot? Maybe because they sell so many explorers that they are focused more on the volume then the per vehicle profit (I heard the volume incentives for the dealers can be much more profitable).

Best thing to do IMO is to spec out what you want, whether it's 15 or 16, then just ask a few dealers what their best number is. Compare the numbers. This way you're not suggesting what the dealer should or shouldn't profit, leave it up to them where there incentive is.

 

[Fla_15_XLT]

Hi Everyone. Haven't post much in a while. Hope everyone is well.

Well, my 2011 Explorer now has 150,000 miles. Getting ready to buy a new one soon. Probably by November. This will be my 5th Explorer sine 2003 (2003, 2005, 2007 and my current 2011).

As the title says, should I buy a late leftover 2015, or go for the redesigned 2016? Why one of the other?

The main things I want are; Limited, moon-roof, and the 301A Option package.

Most of these are in the high-high $47-48,000:

1) What can I expect % off MSRP on a 2015?
2) What can I expect % off MSRP on a 2106?

Thank you in advance. I've been out of the pricing loop for several years now, and feel clueless.

Depending on how much love you feel for MFT, you may want to wait until MFT 3 makes its way to the Explorer. Otherwise you're signing on to a deprecated platform...

 

[davido_]

Best thing to do IMO is to spec out what you want, whether it's 15 or 16, then just ask a few dealers what their best number is. Compare the numbers. This way you're not suggesting what the dealer should or shouldn't profit, leave it up to them where there incentive is.

Asking for a "best price" should be a starting point for the negotiation. What is offered and represented to be the best price rarely is. *Everyone* asks for the "best price". The true negotiators get a price that actually is.