Prospective Buyer - Timing Chain Guides Really Fail All the Time?

[kingmetal]

A friend of mine is looking for a vehicle and I suggested a 2nd Gen Explorer, because they're cheap an in abundance in the PNW, and because I love my 04 Ranger. She loves this idea, so it seems like a no-brainer, except I figured I'd look into the old Timing Chain Rattle issue that my 04 supposedly isn't as prone to.

Well, that's the problem with the internet, right? If I read forums, it looks like EVERYONE has their timing chains fail. She's going to be buying a $2200 vehicle, so having a $1500+ repair come up in 10,000 or so miles doesn't sound very good - so I'm wondering: is the problem with these motors bad enough to avoid them altogether? I hope not, because I love the 4.0 SOHC. Plus, now I'm getting paranoid about my own motor!

Used cars are used cars - buyer beware! I'm just trying to help her make a good decision.

Anything else I should know when shopping for a 2G? So far, the Sport seems to be the favorite. Seeing lots of them in the 1998-2001 model years that seem affordable - plus nearly all of them have 4WD up here, which she doesn't need, but at least it's part-time so she'll get some benefit in the wet.

Thanks y'all! Happy to have found this forum, since there's a wealth of information for my Ranger.

 

[shadowless127]

They are very common fail items. To this day if a 2nd or 3rd gen 4.0L SOHC pulls up next to me and I have my windows open, I'd say 25% of the time I can hear the beginning of the timing chain guide issue. A buddy of mine's mom had a 97 SOHC that they purchased brand new and the timing chains failed at 50K miles despite the fact it was a dealer maintained vehicle that was not driving hard at all. With that being said, once they were replaced the vehicle was driven another 100K miles with no major issues up till my buddy hit a massive rock, bent the frame, and then he scrapped the truck.

With that being said, a bigger concern to me would be the transmission. I've never had a good experience with the 5spd autos. My 03 Mountaineer had to get a major transmission service (new clutch packs and solenoids) at 60K and they started to go again at 80K. My mom just spent a few grand to have the 5spd in her Aviator rebuilt after her original failed.

When I shop for Explorers or Mountaineers I just avoid 6cylinders because the timing chain issues, intake issues, and transmission issues are just too much for me to worry about. 5.0 and the 4r70w are a better bet.

 

[kingmetal]

They are very common fail items. To this day if a 2nd or 3rd gen 4.0L SOHC pulls up next to me and I have my windows open, I'd say 25% of the time I can hear the beginning of the timing chain guide issue. A buddy of mine's mom had a 97 SOHC that they purchased brand new and the timing chains failed at 50K miles despite the fact it was a dealer maintained vehicle that was not driving hard at all. With that being said, once they were replaced the vehicle was driven another 100K miles with no major issues up till my buddy hit a massive rock, bent the frame, and then he scrapped the truck.

With that being said, a bigger concern to me would be the transmission. I've never had a good experience with the 5spd autos. My 03 Mountaineer had to get a major transmission service (new clutch packs and solenoids) at 60K and they started to go again at 80K. My mom just spent a few grand to have the 5spd in her Aviator rebuilt after her original failed.

When I shop for Explorers or Mountaineers I just avoid 6cylinders because the timing chain issues, intake issues, and transmission issues are just too much for me to worry about. 5.0 and the 4r70w are a better bet.

I was afraid you'd say something like that. Interesting that you say the 3Gs are prone to it as well, I'll have to keep an eye on my truck. Also good to know about the transmission. I've got 140,000mi on my 5re55E in the Ranger and I will admit it feels like the weakest part of the truck.

I can personally attest to the fortitude of the 4r70W, as my 2003 Crown Vic had one and that transmission is a beast. It broke an accumulator spring (that I replaced myself) and it did shift extremely firm, but it WORKED.

How is the mileage on the 5.0 vs the 4.0s? And besides the transmission that would be paired to the OHV 4.0 are there any other concerns?

Thanks!

 

[shadowless127]

I was afraid you'd say something like that. Interesting that you say the 3Gs are prone to it as well, I'll have to keep an eye on my truck. Also good to know about the transmission. I've got 140,000mi on my 5re55E in the Ranger and I will admit it feels like the weakest part of the truck.

I can personally attest to the fortitude of the 4r70W, as my 2003 Crown Vic had one and that transmission is a beast. It broke an accumulator spring (that I replaced myself) and it did shift extremely firm, but it WORKED.

How is the mileage on the 5.0 vs the 4.0s? And besides the transmission that would be paired to the OHV 4.0 are there any other concerns?

Thanks!

Most 5r55 fail before 120K miles; but my buddy with the bad timing chains never had a single issue with his transmission. it's like everything else, there's always exceptions to the rule.

Mileage as in MPGs? At 65mph with cruise on I get ~20-21mpg's on a flat road (that was tested about 10 days ago and I have a fuel delivery issue that has been getting worse; I used to get better). Just drove my mom's Aviator (4v 4.6L) down to State College PA about a month ago and I got 22mpg doing 70ish with AC, cooled seats, and cruise control on. Around town the v8's are thirsty. Out of the 3 5.0's I've owned and the 1 2v 4.6 I've owned, I've never seen better than 14 around town.

 

[koda2000]

Do yourself a favor and get a V8. No true 4WD, but AWD is better than just RWD.

 

[shadowless127]

Do yourself a favor and get a V8. No true 4WD, but AWD is better than just RWD.

Honestly for everyday usage AWD is fine. I've never been in a situation where I felt I would've done better if I had low range. AWD tears through snow.

 

[kingmetal]

Honestly for everyday usage AWD is fine. I've never been in a situation where I felt I would've done better if I had low range. AWD tears through snow.

Ah, interesting: so the part-time 4WD in the V8s doesn't have a low-range? 4WD/AWD is an optional feature, right?

My friends doesn't care about 4WD and AWD is significantly more useful. I use the 4WD in my Ranger about once every other month. I don't regret having it (especially for super steep inclines) but I've only had one instance where I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have made it out without it.

The V8 is an interesting option! I don't get much better than 15mpg in the city myself. Unfortunately, the Explorer would be mostly a "city" car, but she's pretty sold on either an SUV, van or a pickup with a shell and I've already made her aware that gas mileage is going to be a problem.

 

[koda2000]

Yes, AWD is/was an option with the V8. I own both RWD and AWD V8's and SOHC V6's. My favorites are the RWD V8's (I live in GA). The V8's get pretty much the same fuel economy as the V6's and are far more reliable, plus the transmissions are stronger. With regular maintenance the V8's can easily go 300,000 miles +. The 2 SOCH's in my family were purchased because the Sport and Sport Trac were only available with the V6 and the price was right.

If you don't need the AWD look for a RWD V8. The AWD (if not needed) just ads extra weight and mechanical complexity. The RWD w/out the towing package gives a better/softer ride than the ones w/the towing package.

I'd love to put a V8 in my Sport Trac (which can be done pretty easily). That would make it the perfect vehicle for me. With the SOHC V6 I consider it a ticking time bomb. The '97 SOHC Sport has a rebuilt engine and with 260K currently runs great. If it dies it will be going to the scrap yard.

 

[kingmetal]

Really appreciate all the wisdom! Looks like a V8 is the best choice. This makes me happy, anyway, since I've had a 2G with a V8 on my short list of future projects for a long time. Looking at CL a lot of the local options for the V8 have AWD but it looks like there are advantages and disadvantages to both options and she'll be good either way.

Too bad the AWD doesn't have a low range! Sure is nice for hill descent oh well!

Thanks again!!

 

[JusTheUsual]

I have 2nd gen sport 4.0 ohv awd that is selectable between full time hi 4wd and 4wd lo or just leave it in awd. So I don't have problems like the sohc engines do. Go for the ohv engine and sport. Also this auto tranny is the best tranny I ever drove. 150k and no problems and I beat the **** out of mine

 

[shadowless127]

Ah, interesting: so the part-time 4WD in the V8s doesn't have a low-range? 4WD/AWD is an optional feature, right?

There is no part time 4WD, it's All Wheel Drive, a permanenet 40/60 front/rear power split with a viscous coupling that will lock the center differential for a 50/50 split under slippage. It's a 100% mechanical system with zero driver input. No All Wheel Drive system has a low range. Systems such as Jeep's Quadra-Trac/Quadra-Drive that lack a 2WD setting aren't AWD, they are full-time 4WD systems.

I have 2nd gen sport 4.0 ohv awd that is selectable between full time hi 4wd and 4wd lo or just leave it in awd. So I don't have problems like the sohc engines do. Go for the ohv engine and sport. Also this auto tranny is the best tranny I ever drove. 150k and no problems and I beat the **** out of mine

That's not AWD it's 4WD.

 

[Sitcoms]

This is a bit offtopic but how many miles does the EX have if it's a second gen and she's paying $2200? or are the prices for second gen just that high out in the PNW?

 

[BubbaFL]

is the problem with these motors bad enough to avoid them altogether?

IMHO, yes.

 

[koda2000]

IMHO, yes.

Even though I currently have 2 SOHC V6's (the 3rd blew up) I gotta agree with BubbaFl. Best to avoid these engines.

 

[SoNic67]

From this generation of Explorers (2001 or older), at this age and with mileages of 100K, the only reasonable buy is a 5.0L V8 Explorer. Better engine, better transmission. If it is AWD even better in my area, but maybe a 2WD is all right in Florida or Georgia.

It don't think it will be $2K though... depends.

 

[koda2000]

From this generation of Explorers (2001 or older), at this age and with mileages of 100K, the only reasonable buy is a 5.0L V8 Explorer. Better engine, better transmission. If it is AWD even better in my area, but maybe a 2WD is all right in Florida or Georgia.

It don't think it will be $2K though... depends.

In GA you might pay $2K for a really clean one with relatively low miles. I'd say $1500 is about average. Condition is everything. In GA AWD is not a plus, but of course if you live where it snows it is. Prices vary depending on where you live.

 

[SoNic67]

Well, here if it snows there are not enough plugs to clean the roads. The interstate might have some lanes cleaned, but to get there from residential areas, the AWD was the ticket.
This year was horrible, lots of snow, but the kids like the school closures due to extra "snow" days. 4 wheelers where running down the roads with no cops in sight (no wonder since their RWD Fords didn't make it there).

 

[JusTheUsual]

There is no part time 4WD, it's All Wheel Drive, a permanenet 40/60 front/rear power split with a viscous coupling that will lock the center differential for a 50/50 split under slippage. It's a 100% mechanical system with zero driver input. No All Wheel Drive system has a low range. Systems such as Jeep's Quadra-Trac/Quadra-Drive that lack a 2WD setting aren't AWD, they are full-time 4WD systems.



That's not AWD it's 4WD.

Its awd that's selectable. The v8's don't have selectable right? It's just awd and your stuck in that, no 4wd lo or hi right?

 

[SoNic67]

AWD is not selectable but is way better than 4x4. It is a true central differential (with limited slip) that allows it to be "connected" all the time between axles, as opposed to the other case - a clutch pack between axles (that makes the 4x4 to be actually driven in 2WD 99% of the time).

 

[masospaghetti]

You might also consider a 4.0 OHV / 5-speed manual combo if driving a stick is an option. The M5R1 was a fairly durable and reliable gearbox and certainly less troublesome than the 4R55E / 5R55E automatics. Some say the 4.0 OHV has top end oiling issues and is prone to head cracks - all I can say is I've owned two of them (one since 2006) and never had engine issues. The 98 I owned is still being driven by my brother with over 230,000 miles.

Also i've found that the fuel economy of the 4.0 / M5R1 to be very reasonable. My 2WD sport has averaged 20.67 mpg over the last 90,000 miles (yes, I've kept receipts). The 98 4-door / 4WD did about 2 mpg less average due to the 4WD equipment and more aggressive rear end ratio.