Trying not to be angry dealing with Ford Customer Service...

[dco43054]

Fat fingers??

Peter

Auto spell correct . LOL

It was supposed to say "wait til Monday for the Ford Customer Service Reps to wander through", or somesuch

 

[peterk9]

Any suggestions? ..................................

What do you guys suggest I do next? If there are any Ford people on here, please let me know. I have been given another option of reporting this to the Better Business Bureau, but has that achieved results?

Thank you in advance for your help...

David

You can try sending a PM to FordService using this link to see if there is anything that can be done;
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/private.php?do=newpm&u=157968

Peter

 

[Azgunslinger]

http://postimg.org/image/6bpyhim8z/ the melted remains of the dust cover...

http://postimg.org/image/6i8nohsll/ the back of the shock with the mud splatter leading them to claim that "the mud caused it"...

Hopefully these links work for you guys, my first time trying this. To me, it looks like some oil curds or melted plastic goo is oozing out of the bottom of the shock I call the reservoir. You can clearly see that the shock "piston" has some plastic or burnt oil residue (but not mud) on it, which seems to imply that the piston was very hot at some point to me.

I also don't feel like that's "a lot" of mud...at least not enough to be causing anything like a part failure.

 

[Azgunslinger]

And what dealer told you that? Hopefully it isn't mine.

Sorry I didn't reply to this previously. San Tan Ford in Gilbert...

 

[dont slow down]

That is a lot of mud on the shock and could easily have done what I thought. However it would seem that the dust shield may have prematurely failed allowing the mud to build up around the shaft where it enters the shock body.

If they "determined" it's not under warranty then that means they know how or why the shock failed. You are entitled to know why it failed. It sounds and looks to me that the dust cover "broke" or failed allowing the mud to that critical location on the shock shaft. Keep asking questions. How did it fail? Why would the dust cover break? Demand answers, if they can't articulate a reasonable cause of failure then it should be replaced under warranty.

In any case I might be going out to my Ex and flipping those rear shocks so the shaft is on the bottom so this is less likely to happen to me.

 

[tmg19103]

You can get that rear shock new online for $30.

If they won't cover it under warranty and you don't want to keep fighting on principle, take it to an indie and get it done for half the price.

I never have work done on my cars at a dealer once off warranty (and they are stating you are off warranty for this repair) and I have a great indie who lets me bring in my own parts. Always good to have a good one in your back pocket.

Still say mud on a shock should not blow it open, but this again goes to the Ex losing its off road roots by having shocks that are meant for cars as opposed to trucks if the mud caused the problem.

 

[Azgunslinger]

you really think that's "a lot"? It was about a 1/4" "coating" on one side of the shock. I just don't think it looks like anything that should rise to the level of "misuse"...I should know, I was in the car.

I am not sure how the shocks being flipped would fare any better if somehow the shaft being exposed to mud is enough to cause the seals to fail. Are you assuming that gravity would make the mud run off the shaft away from the seal? I would think that its no better than assuming gravity would have the mud run down the reservoir side and never make it up to or past the seal.

I think the key thing here is first why is this design so sensitive to mud? And second, even the presence of mud doesn't necessarily explain the heat.

 

[Azgunslinger]

Just took a look at several pictures of how off road shocks are set up. I notice two things, one, the dust covers (if present) are not rigid, they're accordion shaped for some reason. Clearly, there is some issue with maybe the travel, or vulnerability of debris getting past the rigid covers. And the second set up is the coil over one, and it seems you're right, they have the shafts on the bottom.

The explorer has a rigid dust cover and the shafts on top. Kind of a curious configuration given what google suggests is a more durable set up.

 

[Azgunslinger]

Here are a few sites discussing what can cause the seals to fail.

http://www.kyb-europe.com/common-failure-issues.html - says damage because the dust cover fails, or the unit being installed incorrectly can lead to an imperfect seal

http://www.lcool.org/technical/shock_absorbers/shock_absorbers.html - this one says the monotube shock is the most prone to seal failure as it is the most vulnerable to damaged seals. I wonder which design the explorer has...

Well, I can't find anything about the heat other than the curdled oil can happen when exposed to heat. Not sure how that happened in this case. Still researching.

 

[Azgunslinger]

You can get that rear shock new online for $30.

If they won't cover it under warranty and you don't want to keep fighting on principle, take it to an indie and get it done for half the price.

I never have work done on my cars at a dealer once off warranty (and they are stating you are off warranty for this repair) and I have a great indie who lets me bring in my own parts. Always good to have a good one in your back pocket.

Thanks, I already had the dealer repair it as I didn't want to 'risk' driving around with a blown shock, plus I wasn't sure what had gone wrong. I am still not sure and I am $250 lighter. Not heading in the right direction!!

 

[dont slow down]

The explorer most likely has monotube shocks, meaning the oil is pressurized. If you get dirt in between the shaft and the seals the seal WILL fail. Once you lose the pressure and oil the shock will heat up because there is no longer any oil to cool the shock. The friction and no oil will get hot enough to melt plastic. In off road situations the shaft is usually installed down. This does not allow dirt to build up and collect on the seals.

Lets talk about dust covers. Yes the explorers are rigid. They also are fixed to the shock at the top and completely open on the bottom because as the shock travels upwards the body of the shock moves up inside the dust cover. Most aftermarket shocks come with the accordion style because they can be zip tired to the shock and make a better seal. Then S the shock travels up and down the cover compresses and extends. It's just another one of those "WTF Ford?" Designs.

Does this mean it was abused? No way! Is the explorer meant to be driven in the dirt? Hell yes. It's just another thing to be aware of from now on.

 

[scarpi]

Scarpi - I could look up the name of the road I was on, but it was a well groomed forest service road that goes from Ash Fork kind of parallel to I-40 and dumps off at the country club in Williams. It was really nothing challenging, and if we weren't going slow (10-15mph) trying to be relatively quiet and scanning for elk, we probably could have gone 40 mph without much trouble. It was that flat.

Azgunslinger, it sounds like the forest road you were on was pretty tame compared to the rough roads I took mine on around the peaks in Flagstaff. I really think your dealer is giving you the run around on this. The "road" I had my Explorer on started out as a fairly smooth dirt/gravel forest road to a dirt road that had many large rocks sticking out of the road surface along with many ruts. Some rocks were about 6 inches higher than the road surface. At times my wife had to get out and spot for me. It turned out to be more difficult (and fun) than I expected, but the bottom line is that my Explorer went right through it without any problems. I'm sure my Explorer also got dirt and mud on the underside but it is meant to go through dirt and mud. Maybe the Ford employees on this forum can help you get this resolved. Heck I've seen Ford commercials with Explorers driving on dirt roads and like I said before, if the vehicle is not supposed to be driven in mud off road, why is there a "mud/rut" mode on the select terrain knob?

Here are a couple of videos from Ford showing the Explorer off roading. Maybe show them to your dealer.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZuqWEBvYUk



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6twsF6FEwYk

and this one has a Ford employee talking about the terrain management system and a video of the Explorer plowing through a rough muddy course.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWcIPZ-9ioE&feature=youtu.be

I think these videos show that the Explorer was designed to handle much rougher conditions than you drove yours through. Copy the last one and take it to your dealer. I hope that you get the problem resolved to your satisfaction.

 

[Azgunslinger]

Those are some great videos Scarpi...can't help but guffaw at their position that getting the underbody dirty voids the warranty. Seems pretty ridiculous!

I did PM a Ford service rep that comes to this forum. We'll see what they say.

Thanks all!

 

[JerryC]

Why isn't the mud caked everywhere else? That seems odd. I'd guess it's because it stuck to the oil leaking out of the shock. The rest of the undercarriage looks normal to me. I've gotten 100X more mud under my truck when I parked in a front yard at wedding and it rained during the ceremony.

 

[Ryan02Stang]

Ford better make this right! Keep us updated.

 

[blwnsmoke]

Why isn't the mud caked everywhere else? That seems odd. I'd guess it's because it stuck to the oil leaking out of the shock. The rest of the undercarriage looks normal to me. I've gotten 100X more mud under my truck when I parked in a front yard at wedding and it rained during the ceremony.

That is a good point.. going off that, oil was leaking g first, mud stuck to it from being gooey and wet. Oil leak would be the failure without mud causing it therefore should be warranteed.

Just go to court.. you only need 51% to win and I think you have a good case.

 

[Odrapnew]

Not sure if it's been asked, but what does the other shock look like? Is that one going to fail as well IF it was caused by mud?

If it was caused by the mud, you'd think the other one would be in similar shape regarding mud cake.

JerryC and blwnsmoke have good points as well.

 

[Azgunslinger]

Odrapnew -

I brought that up. I have 4 similar devices on my car, and only one of them blew up. If it was something I did, why would only one fail? Seems like it is related to something unusual about that ONE. Installed wrong? Flawed seal? Premature failure any way you look at it.

Thanks Jerry - you make a great point. The oil and the dust/dirt would indeed be very syrupy - I imagine that shock oil is super thick compared to regular motor oil! I didn't see the shock as it was installed in the underbody, but I did see it uninstalled in the box the new one came in. Even after the service advisor's handling it, the mud was still on it. Seems like if it was thick and dried out and was taken in and out of a cardboard box...it might flake off pretty easily. Maybe not if it had some stickum on it!

I PM'ed Ford Service, no response. Do you guys think they're passing on replying to me?

 

[MikB]

It's a little surprising to me that our resident Ford rep hasn't chimed in on this. Maybe they were told not to answer anymore on this board due to too many complaints?

 

[Azgunslinger]

The fault may be mine, in all fairness. I did PM them before, but it didn't show up in my "sent" folder, so perhaps it did not work. I did it again earlier and it did go through.

Hopefully I am not being viewed as just a "complainer". THe dealership certainly made me feel that way though, TBH. In reality, I am on my 5th consecutive Ford, and I have never had a similar issue. In fact the opposite, I have every intention to extend the number of Ford vehicles I own into the future (hopefully a FPC Shelby Mustang or a GT in the future). Every experience has been very solid...that's why this anomaly is so frustrating.

C'mon!