Took my 1st test drive of a 2016 Sport

[Tuscany]

I guess we can debate this all day, but the fact remains that octane is simply a component that offers burn stability, and nothing more.

 

[midnightsun]

Octane is a heat rating. The higher the octane the higher its flash point. Fuel has multiple purposes, mainly energy and cooling. You are correct that a higher octane fuel does NOT store more energy then say a 87, but modern engines can determine the spark curve / fuel volume it can run without knock, so a higher octane fuel can allow the computer to run more aggressively. Adding forced Air into the combustion chamber raises the compression making knock easier to achieve. More Air + more usable fuel = more power. So in our case with a turbo engine higher octane fuel will benefit performance. Paying 1 dollar extra per gallon for that performance is a choice.


Driving my 2012 NA Limited Explorer for years then switching to a 2016 turbo explorer i can feel the difference big time. The turbo engine fills in the sluggish points of the NA engine. The NA engine lacked power until 5000 rpm. The Turbo is making noticeable power everywhere. I can finally pass in 5th and 6th gear. The NA engine on the highway needed to be in 4th so it could live in its power band.

 

[Tuscany]

Octane is a heat rating. The higher the octane the higher its flash point. Fuel has multiple purposes, mainly energy and cooling. You are correct that a higher octane fuel does NOT store more energy then say a 87, but modern engines can determine the spark curve / fuel volume it can run without knock, so a higher octane fuel can allow the computer to run more aggressively. Adding forced Air into the combustion chamber raises the compression making knock easier to achieve. More Air + more usable fuel = more power. So in our case with a turbo engine higher octane fuel will benefit performance. Paying 1 dollar extra per gallon for that performance is a choice.


Driving my 2012 NA Limited Explorer for years then switching to a 2016 turbo explorer i can feel the difference big time. The turbo engine fills in the sluggish points of the NA engine. The NA engine lacked power until 5000 rpm. The Turbo is making noticeable power everywhere. I can finally pass in 5th and 6th gear. The NA engine on the highway needed to be in 4th so it could live in its power band.

My original point was directed towards a poster who said he felt a difference in his older IROC Z. There is, and never will be a performance gain on gasoline when stability is not critical.
I think my response to that post was lost here.

Power gains come from the engine and ECM spec, period.
Turbo charging, supercharging, higher compression and timing all create more power and heat, which requires a more stable fuel to carry out the combustion cycle without engine damaging pre-ignition. It's that simple.


I'm not a fan of turbocharged gas engines. It works much better in diesel applications, where there is a target RPM/torque windows where the diesel engines are used.

I get what Ford is doing. They are using one engine platform, and dressing it in different NA or turbo applications for the desired application.
It's more "modular" and much cheaper than building several different platforms.
They are also claiming higher MPG numbers, but to get those numbers, they are under sizing the engine for the application and deriving those numbers without making the boost most people use on a daily basis.

The 3.5L Eco may be the best engine for the Ex. Unlike the 2.3L Eco, the 3.5 Eco is large enough to not fall flat on its face when not making boost.
I don't agree with the small turbo engines in large vehicles, and I personally would rather have a larger NA.
JMHO.

 

[midnightsun]

Tuscany - If you look at F150 shootouts in the mountains pulling trailers, It will surprise you with the response truck guys had testing the 2.3L turbo and the 3.5L. They were independently testing all the brands big v8s vs Ford. Bottom line Forced Induction on any engine can make that engine better. It can even make a small displacement engine perform better then a higher displacement NA engine.

I'm just kinda shocked the original poster didn't like the Explorer Sport. Compared to my Limited Explorer (that i still own) its amazing.

 

[Fentress24]

I didn't mean to start a debate.

Was just saying that if the dealer has regular gas in the sport the ECU might be pulling timing to avoid early detonation and as a result making it feel more sluggish.

I have run both regular and premium in mine and I am not sure I can tell a difference.

 

[midnightsun]

I know the vehicle is 5000 lbs but is the hesitation normal when you floor it?

I guess I was just expecting a little more as far as response but I'm not familiar with turbo tech and come from a background of driving smaller fast cars. I really dig the how it sounds at the stock level, though. Lots of potential here! Nevertheless, it was tough to walk away from it tonight and drive my POS Jeep home.

Soon...

I find the engine shines on the highway. At 130MPH the steering is loose though...speeds above that feel scary compared to say our Cayenne turbo. From take off at a light hold the rpms to about 2k with the brakes then launch.

 

[613GT500]

My original point was directed towards a poster who said he felt a difference in his older IROC Z. There is, and never will be a performance gain on gasoline when stability is not critical.
QUOTE]

But, aftermarket tuners for NA engines also offers multiple tunes for different grade of fuel, so fuel type does make a difference

 

[WJGreer]

all I have to go by is my previous experience with lighter sports cars with 350's and Corvette transmissions. Just making sure to keep my expectations in check considering the weight of the vehicle or if it's actually an issue. One of my buddies calls it turbo lag.

I always say that the most important car on the test drive is the one you drove up in, because the new car's characteristics will be amplified inasmuch as they're different from what you are used to.

You mentioned that you drove to the test drive in an old Jeep, but at least twice you also mentioned that you are comparing the driving feel of the Explorer to lighter and more nimble sportscars. The Explorer will never come out ahead in that comparison. I know you understand this, because you more or less come out and say so. But, still, here we are having this discussion.

The Explorer Sport is a 4900 pound 3-row SUV with 80 cubic feet of cargo space. Ford has put an engine in it that will get it to 60 in a hair below 6 seconds, and a suspension that does not feel like a bouncy house from a kids' party. Versus a Corvette, or even a 3 series BMW, it takes a beat to get going. You would too, if you weighed that much.

Here's what I suggest. Void the Corvettes from your mind as much as you can. Go drive a Toyota Highlander, which is actually a very nice vehicle. I suggest it because it's a direct competitor to the Explorer that, in my opinion, has no soul, an overly soft suspension, and about 20% too little power.

Then drive an inline-6 BMW X5. Note that it can be ordered with a tiny third row, and also that it's about the same fast as the Explorer Sport. It will have superior materials and will feel quite a bit nicer overall, indeed. Then look at the $72,000 MSRP and decide if you want to leave that much money at the BMW dealership.

Then go back and drive the Explorer Sport again. At that point you will have a good context for what the car is and is trying to be.

Personally if money and space were no object, I'd probably have a Yukon in one garage space, with no pretense toward being a sportscar, and a 911 in the next, with no pretense towards utility. Alas.

Best luck.

 

[BMan5150]

The dealer could also have regular gas in the truck vs. the premium recommendation. Its not a huge difference but I feel the truck definitely runs better when I put premium in.

This...regular gas and the timing is likely getting pulled a bit. Makes for a less eager feeling twin turbo charged motor. Heck, even na applications.

 

[slc18t]

Didn't read the whole thread, saw a lot of info that doesn't explain why a new Explorer Sport feels sluggish, slow, powerless and how ever else you can describe a car with little power.

On our day long test drive of a 2014 Explorer Sport I was far from impressed. I was discouraged, but figured this is what I should expect from a vehicle this heavy. We received our special order and same thing. Just plain slow. I had planned to chip it eventually and figured that would be the solution.

Fast forward to 5,000 miles. It really started to wake up. Substantially faster and better MPG's than when it was new.

Fast forward again to 20,000 miles. Things a virtual rocket ship stock. Very impressed with performance and MPG's up around 24 on the highway with the CC set.

I have since chipped it. First time I took it out and ran it hard with the chip it seemed as though it didn't want to shift and was acting weird when under full throttle at lower speeds. I check the doors and there are strings of rubber all up both sides. Thing was spinning the tires.

The Ecoboost engines have forged internals. They take longer to break in than standard engine internals and I suppose this is why they gain so much power in the first part of their life.

 

[Tuscany]

Tuscany - If you look at F150 shootouts in the mountains pulling trailers, It will surprise you with the response truck guys had testing the 2.3L turbo and the 3.5L. They were independently testing all the brands big v8s vs Ford. Bottom line Forced Induction on any engine can make that engine better. It can even make a small displacement engine perform better then a higher displacement NA engine.

I'm just kinda shocked the original poster didn't like the Explorer Sport. Compared to my Limited Explorer (that i still own) its amazing.

For the past 15 years, my hobby on the side has been Ford diesel truck performance. I've dealt with many performance tuner companies and have a small fortune invested in performance diesel files, exhaust systems and cold air intakes. Not to mention tires..
My last and most powerful truck was a 6.4L Powerstroke compound turbo that produced 49 lbs. of boost, 585 horses and 1168 lb's of torque to the ground.
It would leave so much pollution on acceleration that it could be seen from the space station.. The truck could turn high 11's in the quarter on a good day. Boost is so much easier to make with diesel because diesels LOVE mass amounts of fuel, wide fuel timing, and lots of boost which in turn makes huge exhaust mass that drives the impeller.

I also have a performance winter hobby that includes my two 1100 CC Arctic cat snowmobiles that make a modest 230 horses on 685lbs of snowmobile.
I have had numerous turbo trucks and tractors in the past, so I am very familiar with turbo power, and their respective power bands.


With the 3.5L EB not withstanding, I'm just not impressed with what Ford is doing with the tiny 2.0L and up inline four turbo gas engines. JMO. Just not good powerbands for the application.
You couldn't give me one in a large vehicle. I'll take the larger NA with better low end and response any day over a smaller engine that is being sold from a dyno sheet instead of what's practical.

As far as gasoline octane goes, I'm not doing a good enough job getting my point clarified, so I'll just let that one expire.

 

[GrafX]

I'm just kinda shocked the original poster didn't like the Explorer Sport. Compared to my Limited Explorer (that i still own) its amazing.

I won't go as far as saying I didn't like it. I was just expecting a little more response due to my background of driving smaller sports cars back in my 20's.

Thanks to this forum, it put me in check by knowing what to expect. At least I know the lag is not a defect and see a mod kit in my future & pray I don't roll it.

 

[GrafX]

Thanks for that, WJGreer. You summed it up very nicely and nailed it.

Here's what I suggest. Void the Corvettes from your mind as much as you can. Go drive a Toyota Highlander, which is actually a very nice vehicle. I suggest it because it's a direct competitor to the Explorer that, in my opinion, has no soul, an overly soft suspension, and about 20% too little power.

I guess this is pretty much what I was hoping to hear. The only problem is there really is no other body style & design that really grabs my attention. They're all kind of like... meh. Plus that sound of the turbo on the Sport really brought out my inner 20 yr old. Can't deny him that.

 

[Rhett]

Not at all and that's why I'm asking. I don't have any turbo experience and all I have to go by is my previous experience with lighter sports cars with 350's and Corvette transmissions. Just making sure to keep my expectations in check considering the weight of the vehicle or if it's actually an issue. One of my buddies calls it turbo lag.

Turbo lag was what I was getting at.

All turbos have a certain rpm range where they are most efficient. If you're under that rpm range and punch it, there will be a delay while turbo builds boost. That is turbo lag in simplistic terms. Sport mode in many automatic transmissions maintain higher shift points, thus keeping the engine and turbo in their ideal powerband more often.

 

[WJGreer]

Thanks for that, WJGreer. You summed it up very nicely and nailed it.



I guess this is pretty much what I was hoping to hear. The only problem is there really is no other body style & design that really grabs my attention. They're all kind of like... meh. Plus that sound of the turbo on the Sport really brought out my inner 20 yr old. Can't deny him that.

I know - I'm sort of struggling a little myself, here. We've been a 3-car family for a long time now, with my wife driving something good for the young kids, me driving a BMW sedan, and an old Explorer between us. My latest BMW has been underwhelming and it's a lease ending in August. Both the Explorer and my wife's Volvo have >100,000 miles. Our kids are getting closer to college and I have to be a little more scrupulous with car finances than I once did. My older daughter will be 16 in a few years. And on and on...

So, I'm in this market too, for something that checks a whole lot of boxes and doesn't cost a ton. There actually aren't that many appealing choices.

 

[BMan5150]

My latest BMW has been underwhelming and it's a lease ending in August.

I too drive a very underwhelming BMW sedan, LOL! My CPO warranty runs out in December, so I'm mulling over whether I want to keep it sans warranty protection. Good lord if I had been on the hook for all the repairs needed to my car over the past 3.5 years! The good news is most of the common issues with my car have been addressed; the bad news is there were ALOT of them!

 

[WJGreer]

I too drive a very underwhelming BMW sedan, LOL! My CPO warranty runs out in December, so I'm mulling over whether I want to keep it sans warranty protection. Good lord if I had been on the hook for all the repairs needed to my car over the past 3.5 years! The good news is most of the common issues with my car have been addressed; the bad news is there were ALOT of them!

Mine is a 2013 535. In terms of reliability, it's been excellent. Only one trip to the shop since August of 2013, because the computer forgot the date.

BMW changed the 5 series philosophy for this generation. My last one, which was a 2005, was a dedicated sport sedan differing from the 3 series only by about 15% size, about 175 pounds, and a great NA V8 engine. Awesome chassis. Boy, was it a runner.

This one is trying to be both a sport sedan and a luxury sedan and not really doing either one well. It's too soft and understated to be much fun as a sportscar, but not quite quiet enough to be competitive as a posh cruiser. Of my 3 BMWs, it's been by far my least favorite. And, at $71,200 MSRP, screw that.

By comparison, I kind of like the raw masculinity of the Explorer Sport. I was going to buy a Grand Cherokee High Altitude, but found that the Explorer offers a lot of the same appeal, a turbo engine that works better at my altitude, and a 3rd row, all for a few bucks less. Haven't bought mine yet, but I'm sort of done looking around.

 

[WJGreer]

I too drive a very underwhelming BMW sedan, LOL! My CPO warranty runs out in December, so I'm mulling over whether I want to keep it sans warranty protection. Good lord if I had been on the hook for all the repairs needed to my car over the past 3.5 years! The good news is most of the common issues with my car have been addressed; the bad news is there were ALOT of them!

Over on the BMW forums, this brand of extended warranty seems to be the most highly regarded. Maybe you want to go over to Bimmerfest and search on it. If I were considering a long-term BMW ownership, I would start here.

 

[BMan5150]

Thanks for the warranty lead. I'm still not sure how much longer I'll keep my car. It's fun to drive and is fairly sporting but the reliability has very poor. I even just had the HPFP replaced-something I thought the figured out with the N55 motor.

You'll love the ex sport. I love it. Seating is comfortable and fits our family of 4 well. Also pulls my boat like a beast. The kicker is my wife also likes it. It's a winner.