Banjo bolt sealing washer size

[smalltownusa]

Does anybody know the size of the brake line to caliper sealing washer (copper washer) that I need for my 2005 Explorer Sport Trac XLT. My local Advance Auto doesn't list any in their data base. The NAPA web site lists the washers by size only. Even my repair manual says replace washer without mentioning the size. Maybe I can locate the one I removed, but that would already be distorted to measure ?

I did find my old washer its got some corrosion on the outside.
Measuring OD appears to be .653"
ID appears to be .397"
thickness ~.089"

Do these need to be an exact fit ?

 

[koda2000]

ford explorer brake bolt washer in eBay Motors | eBay

Condition: New Brand:
Dorman
UPC:
037495662727
Manufacturer Part Number:
66272
Pieces: 2 Pcs Product Type: Replacement Brake Parts
Outside diameter: 5/8" Other Part Number: 43200691
Inside Diameter: 25/64" Interchange Part Number: Dorman Replacement Brake Parts
Product Name: Brake Hose to Caliper Bolt Washer Part Brand: Dorman

 

[smalltownusa]

koda thanks for that link, however when I plug in 2005 Explorer Sport Trac it comes back with not compatible.
I think I will try the Ford dealer.

 

[koda2000]

I don't know what condition you original washers are in, but they are reusable.

The compatibility table for the Dorman washers lists a 2005 Explorer, I don't know if an ST would be different. I find those tables can't be trusted anyway. Call the Dorman 800 tech support number if you want to know for sure. Ford dealer will probably want to sell you a new hose or caliper. Of you have the old copper washer, you can probably get something that will work at the hardware store.

BTW, I checked the RockAuto catalog for the '05 Explorer and the '05 ST and they show the same part number for front brake hoses (comes with new washers) so they must be the same size.

 

[smalltownusa]

I broke down and drove over to my local dealer. I plunked down my used washer on the counter, and said there must be something special about these sealing washers for my 2005 Explorer Sport Trac as I am having trouble finding them. The counterman disappeared then came back with a small plastic bag. Don't tell me I said that you have the part number memorized ! Nope he said we only have one size that we use for everything. We compared them with the old washer, and they did look the same.
At home I measured the two again.:
Old O.D. .653" New .633"
Old I.D. .397" New .398"
Old thickness .089" New .091"

I'm guessing the slight variations is a result of the crushing when the are installed.
Well at least I can proceed with my brake job.

 

[swshawaii]

I've searched EVERYWHERE for ST crush washers and specs and came up empty. For such an important small part that should be replaced any time hoses are removed. Two are almost always included with new or rebuilt calipers. Stock banjo bolts are 3/8-24 thread. Crucial measurement is I.D. that fits snugly over the bolt shoulder. Also important to use factory torque spec between 23-29 ft/lbs. Replaced my stock hoses with Deerfield Precision stainless lines yesterday and found the difference between 26 ft/lbs. was a drip and 29 ft/lbs. was no leaks. Ended up at the maximum 29 ft/lbs. DP's build quality and fit is perfect. Will post pics later.

 

[koda2000]

The Germans have used copper washers like this forever. I've found that a new one is more likely to leak than a used one (as long as it's not damaged of course) an yes, proper torque is essential.

 

[swshawaii]

Koda, I think you have a valid point. I was looking because the crush washers supplied with Deerfield Precision's SS hose kits had complaints of being too thin. IIRC, the stock washers were twice the thickness and had grooves in them. The only leaks I've experienced were reusing the stock type with the grooves. Happened first when I replaced all my calipers with NAPA Eclipse and tried reusing the grooved stock washers. Leaked at all four corners regardless of torque. Used NAPA's supplied thin washers without grooves and no leaks. Happened again yesterday when I forgot about the first time and tried reusing the OEM washers. Once again, gushers x4. Reused the thin NAPA washers without grooves and leak free.

 

[smalltownusa]

The washers the dealer sold me have no groves. There are groves on my caliper.

 

[intelisevil]

The washers the dealer sold me have no groves. There are groves on my caliper.

Yes, that's why you want to replace them if you ever remove the banjo bolt. I think I bought a bag of 10 for about $4.

 

[Drewmcg]

Great discussion here but, unfortunately, doesn't quite answer what "size" copper crush washers to buy -- e.g., if ordering from RockAuto, Amazon, or local parts store.

Using Smalltownusa's actual measurements of the new copper washers his local Ford dealer parts guy sold him:

Old O.D. .653" New .633" = approx. 16 mm
Old I.D. .397" New .398" = approx. 10 mm
Old thickness .089" New .091" = 2.3 mm

First question: Are these washers sized in Inches or Metric?
Second question: Are the seller size references to the inside diameter or outside diameter? As noted above, the inside diameter logically is more important, but the outside diameter may be important, too, if there is any kind of recess on the shoulder of the banjo hose bracket.

The inside diameter measured by Smalltownusa falls between the following two decimal SAE measurements:

• 25/64 inches = 0.3906 inches = 9.921 mm
• 13/32 inches = 0.4063 inches = 10.3188 mm

Outside diameters:

• 5/8 inches = 0.6250 inches = 15.875 mm
  
• 41/64 inches = 0.6406 inches = 16.2719 mm

Based on this observation, I conclude that the Ford Explorer banjo bolt copper crush washers sold to smalltownusa are 10 mm inside diameter size; 16 mm o.d. size. (I have not seen options for thickness in a given size on RockAuto or Amazon.)

This leaves the question of whether one should order, say, the RockAuto 10 mm crush washers (I.D.), or the 16 mm crush washer (O.D.). The information screen on the various options dutifully states the diameters of each size, but does not specify I.D. or O.D.!

Dorman lists inside and outside dimensions (and thickness) for their products. On their "help" website, they list this product for copper brake hose washers for "Ford ", front brake hose, 1980-2009: #66272. Dorman HELP! Online - 66272 That product lists its dimensions as: Id 25/64 In., Od 5/8 In, Thickness 1/16 In. If Dorman's site is correct, then either the Ford parts guy sold smalltownusa the wrong washers or smalltownusa's measurements are off. (For what it's worth, when I pull up the Dorman part number in Amazon, a warning pops up saying that it does not fit my 2010 fourth gen Ford Explorer.)

Or else there is enough tolerance that EITHER a SAE 25/64 i.d. OR a 10 mm i.d. washer will work just fine. That, and either the Ford parts department or Dorman decided to reduce part numbers/inventory by selecting one or the other size.

I tend to believe the Ford parts guy. I think there's more riding on his sticking to Ford's spec, and more of an incentive for Dorman to reduce part numbers, or else that Dorman just screws these things up with some frequency. (I noticed that on its Help website, it listed the outside diameter on one part number of copper crush washer as being smaller than the inside diameter. Sloppy mistake!)

Unfortunately, that still leaves me wondering how to order the correct crush washers online, since I'm not confident that if I order 10 mm washers that they won't end up sending me ones with a 10 mm outside diameter!

 

[Drewmcg]

Okay, I'm pretty sure that at least RockAuto sizes copper crush washers by I.D. I just ordered S.U.R.&R. BRC227 (pack of 10, 10 mm). Unless I post otherwise below, assume that these worked out just fine for my 2010 Ford Explorer! Cheers.