For Livernois and others. questions about engines blowing

[Carnivore]

I have been using my 93 perf Livernois tune for 40,000 miles with no problems but have now decided to step it up by using the new Tstat, Plugs and 3BAR MAP sensor with a new tune. I just had one of my local guys install the plugs and tstat (while I am at work). After they did the work the lead technician left me a note saying he is a certified Ford technician and has seen many of these ecoboosts with blown engines because of tunes "pushing the limit". He was speaking about tuners in general and NOT specifically about Livernois but he said "don't run the max tune for long periods of time because you will blow your engine; rather use one step down from the max and you should be fine"

Just when I was convinced on the 93 perf tune, now I am scared all over again.

 

[derryckz]

I would find a new technician as anyone who makes a statement like 'use one step down from the max' without establishing relevancy should raise an eye brow. Tunes don't blow engines if done correctly and if you don't have the capability to log and monitor then I would suggest sticking with an OTS tune.

 

[Carnivore]

uhhhhh what is an OTS tune?

 

[derryckz]

OTS = Off the Shelf...the more generic tune which is also generally the least aggressive.

 

[Carnivore]

OTS = Off the Shelf...the more generic tune which is also generally the least aggressive.

so what do you mean if I do not have the ability to log and monitor?

 

[derryckz]

If you can't pull your own logs fairly regularly then I would suggest sticking with an OTS tune. I don't use the Livernois tune and I'm not sure if it has logging capabilities but if not then there are several other options out there.

 

[Carnivore]

ok well hopefully LMS will answer this post then.... they are pretty good about replying on this forum

 

[need-a-cage]

The LMS tuner can not log. I would not push the envelop with a tune without being able to make sure everything it up to the task for YOUR car and fuel YOU are running in YOUR climate. There have been blown motors that were covered under warranty, so Ford had some issues. Others had issues from lack of maintenance and getting moisture in the intercooler and then sucking it in the motor. I am not sure if the Sports have the condensation issue that the F150's had, but I have not opened mine up yet to inspect. I am only at 5000 miles now so I don't expect to see any. I am also in a warm Cali climate and 90% of the miles are easy ones with my wife driving it as her daily driver. I do plan to inspect it though before I tune it, but I have to figure out where the hell to look. I hate transverse mounted motors!! I will be getting an SCT X4 which does have the ability to datalog. I will also use a tuner that is willing to look at the logs to make sure everything is cool, and will only give you the more aggressive tune if you do send him logs to go through.

 

[Livernois]

I have been using my 93 perf Livernois tune for 40,000 miles with no problems but have now decided to step it up by using the new Tstat, Plugs and 3BAR MAP sensor with a new tune. I just had one of my local guys install the plugs and tstat (while I am at work). After they did the work the lead technician left me a note saying he is a certified Ford technician and has seen many of these ecoboosts with blown engines because of tunes "pushing the limit". He was speaking about tuners in general and NOT specifically about Livernois but he said "don't run the max tune for long periods of time because you will blow your engine; rather use one step down from the max and you should be fine"

Just when I was convinced on the 93 perf tune, now I am scared all over again.

I would say that there is no way that your technician is more well versed in the EcoBoost platform than we are. Where would he have gotten his technical data in order to make such a recommendation? Was he just arbitrarily speaking? We routinely purchase several new vehicles every 6-10 months, and this only supplements all of the data that we receive from client vehicles that we modify. Since 2009 we have not failed an engine, not one. Also contrary to what someone else thinks, we have had unrivaled success all over the WORLD without a single log.

 

[Odrapnew]

I would say that there is no way that your technician is more well versed in the EcoBoost platform than we are. Where would he have gotten his technical data in order to make such a recommendation? Was he just arbitrarily speaking? We routinely purchase several new vehicles every 6-10 months, and this only supplements all of the data that we receive from client vehicles that we modify. Since 2009 we have not failed an engine, not one. Also contrary to what someone else thinks, we have had unrivaled success all over the WORLD without a single log.

While this is true, there was that one guy who was having issues with his vehicle. The tune didn’t cause the issue, just exacerbated it. His tuner didn’t have the ability to datalog, however, had he been able to datalog, the weeks that it took to understand the issue could have been reduced days.

 

[Carnivore]

Well I install the three bar map sensor and the new tune and love it. Actually installed a 93 tow tune and feel that there is definitely some more low-end power. I had new spark plugs and thermostat replaced as well. I do have one question about the thermostat - my temperature gauge still sits in the same position it did before. Is this normal or should be sitting at a lower position closer to the cold line ?

 

[derryckz]

I would say that there is no way that your technician is more well versed in the EcoBoost platform than we are. Where would he have gotten his technical data in order to make such a recommendation? Was he just arbitrarily speaking? We routinely purchase several new vehicles every 6-10 months, and this only supplements all of the data that we receive from client vehicles that we modify. Since 2009 we have not failed an engine, not one. Also contrary to what someone else thinks, we have had unrivaled success all over the WORLD without a single log.

If you haven't taken a single log then I'm sure glad I went with another tuner. I have a ~1000RWHP 300ZX and a ~600RWHP 335 and both have custom tunes and I log every couple of months to make sure everything is 'as it should be'. Quite a risk you're taking with someone else's vehicle if you never generate a single log given the many regional variables involved. I certainly don't consider myself to be qualified in any way to be a 'tuner' but I certainly want to know enough to ensure that my vehicle is running safely and properly. This is no way is intended to imply that your tunes are unsafe but I personally wouldn't be comfortable without being able to verify that any tune on any of my vehicles is operating in a safe range. Something like a leaking fuel injector could cause lean conditions and yield undesirable results.

 

[need-a-cage]

While this is true, there was that one guy who was having issues with his vehicle. The tune didn’t cause the issue, just exacerbated it. His tuner didn’t have the ability to datalog, however, had he been able to datalog, the weeks that it took to understand the issue could have been reduced days.

His problem never was understood. He was so frustrated with it that he put it back to stock and sold all the aftermarket parts. It is still running perfectly in stock form. I sure wish he would have figured it out so we would have a heads up if any of ours have the same stumbling problem once tuned. Not too worried though, since I'll be able to datalog and see what is going on.

Carnivore, I am glad yours is running great with the more aggressive tune. Have you run it in the 1/4 mile to see what it can do? From what I have read, it seems like 13.6 is where they are at with that tune. That may have been with other mods though too. I would expect the temp gauge to register lower with the much colder t-stat. Make sure you don't have an air bubble in the system. What temp is the stock t-stat?

 

[Carnivore]

Iput in a 160 tstat to replace a 195 stock

 

[Livernois]

His problem never was understood. He was so frustrated with it that he put it back to stock and sold all the aftermarket parts. It is still running perfectly in stock form. I sure wish he would have figured it out so we would have a heads up if any of ours have the same stumbling problem once tuned. Not too worried though, since I'll be able to datalog and see what is going on.

Carnivore, I am glad yours is running great with the more aggressive tune. Have you run it in the 1/4 mile to see what it can do? From what I have read, it seems like 13.6 is where they are at with that tune. That may have been with other mods though too. I would expect the temp gauge to register lower with the much colder t-stat. Make sure you don't have an air bubble in the system. What temp is the stock t-stat?

The stock unit is 178°F. With an 18° delta you will not see a nominal difference in where the needle sits on your dash. What you will experience is that your vehicle is more capable to repeatedly make consistent power, and has far better driveability.

While this is true, there was that one guy who was having issues with his vehicle. The tune didn’t cause the issue, just exacerbated it. His tuner didn’t have the ability to datalog, however, had he been able to datalog, the weeks that it took to understand the issue could have been reduced days.

He did actually log his vehicle several times, for accuracy's sake. He is also still a client of our with a moderately modified SHO.

If you haven't taken a single log then I'm sure glad I went with another tuner. I have a ~1000RWHP 300ZX and a ~600RWHP 335 and both have custom tunes and I log every couple of months to make sure everything is 'as it should be'. Quite a risk you're taking with someone else's vehicle if you never generate a single log given the many regional variables involved. I certainly don't consider myself to be qualified in any way to be a 'tuner' but I certainly want to know enough to ensure that my vehicle is running safely and properly. This is no way is intended to imply that your tunes are unsafe but I personally wouldn't be comfortable without being able to verify that any tune on any of my vehicles is operating in a safe range. Something like a leaking fuel injector could cause lean conditions and yield undesirable results.

I did mention that we,"...routinely purchase several new vehicles every 6-10 months, and this only supplements all of the data that we receive from client vehicles that we modify." That portion of my post might have been missed. We use several pieces of information to tune a vehicle outside of historical data. For example, internal OEM R&D, strategy code, software identification number, mods, octane and environmental data to tune a vehicle. To inaccurately parse my post and take portions purposely out of context is not really fair. Obviously my log comment was given context by the sentence, as we do not need specific client vehicle logs.

 

[BlackJac]

I have been enjoying the Livernois 93 Performance 3 Bar tune for over 22,000 miles now. Still a blast to drive and running strong.

 

[Livernois]

I have been enjoying the Livernois 93 Performance 3 Bar tune for over 22,000 miles now. Still a blast to drive and running strong.

Good to hear Jac, and thank you for taking some time out to post about your tuning experience!