Thinking of Ditching the Explorer

[NIUPonyBoy]

This car has not lived up to what Ford should be making IMHO.

Before I go into it, Ford Customer Care on this site has been more than helpful and attentive to my issues and I thank them very much for that. I also bought this car used, it checked out pretty clean and was a lease turn in. I bought it with 19k on the odo and currently has 51k. It feels like 350k.

This is not to dis on Ford, I have almost always owned a Ford as has my family (my Grandfather worked for Ford for 50+ years) and I have two true Fords and a ford powered RV in my drive way next to two Mopar's. Perhaps I was expecting too much from my 2012 Expo XLT but I don't think so. I have three distinct areas of concern and those are three major areas with all cars.

1. Paint and finish. I am outside the 3/36, I get that, but the so called 5/unlimited is, IMHO, a joke. Ford has stated that the rust must perforate through the metal (create a hole) before they will cover it. Come on Ford, when you use aluminum that is not going to happen. I have had three issues with rust/oxidization on the car in the 2 and a bit years I have owned it. One was along the lower portion of the driver's side rear door, I fixed it and this was the first summer I owned it, the next was on the edges of the licence plate well on the lift gate where the chrome like trim is, this developed last fall but I finally had it fixed this spring one my dime. Currently the vast majority of the lip of the hood has a lot of oxidation under the paint causing it to severely bubble. It is at a Ford body shop being fixed... on my dime. I find such massive corrosion issues to be unacceptable on a newer car liker this. Hell my 11 year old Ram has no rust issues like this and it is a freakin' Dodge! I am beyond upset by this.

2. The Sync system, this has been a buggy mess. It was at the dealer because the touch screen went dead while I was out of town with the family many hundreds of miles away. Despite having controls on the dash portion I could not adjust the actual cabin temp, just the fan, and it was damn hot out. The radio would turn on but couldn't adjust the channel. I didn't even have a clock. This being the second time this happened. Ford has been great about fixing it at no charge to me but it is very annoying to deal with and damn horrid when traveling with the family. Hopefully this trip to service will fix it. Again Ford has been wonderful on this and I thank Ford Customer Service here for their help.

3. Wear... this car feels like for every road mile it gets on the odo the car actually wears at 5 miles. It is getting creaky and clunky and the leather is wearing poorly. I maintain service intervals as is needed and repairs as required it just feels so much needier than any other car I have owned. This is a 'familytruckster' and it performs superbly as that, but it feels like it doesn't want to be doing it. I realize some of this is from my above impressions of the car causing me to have some resentment for it, but the creaks and clunks are getting old. Plus with the n/a motor the transmission just feels confused at best in shifting.

I am at the point where I just want to trade it in.... I'll more than likely get something a little more fun and a little more money but I am dishearten by my experiences with this car to this point. I expected more from Ford. And one of my main motivations to trade out of the car is not knowing what is coming from it next... once I get the radio fixed will it last? Once I get the latest corrosion issue fixed what will start to look like crap? What under the hood will reach end of life far before it should? I'm hoping that this trip to the dealer is the last for rust and radio, again the trips to the dealer have not be numerous, just annoying in their nature, and the car will finally meet what Ford should be making... if not it's gone and I may just be preemptive on this and strike now. Which is too bad as I was very excited when I got the car as it as a 'grown up' family car that I actually liked.

 

[DsN]

Regarding the peeling paint, the only permanent solution is to get entirely new panels or have the existing ones completely stripped, properly prepped, and re-painted. You're looking at thousands of dollars to do it right and have it last. I've also noticed the various creaks, clunks, and rattles on my Expedition started much sooner than they did on my Mountaineer. Whether or not that's going to have any real bearing on durability, only time will tell. Regardless, if you're not enjoying the vehicle and can afford to take the inevitable loss on selling/trading it I would do so. Life is too short to be unhappy by choice.

 

[Sgt1411]

Your points are all very valid, and not unreasonable.

I bleed Ford blue just like many on here and I too am starting to get frustrated with the small quality issues. My Sport has squealing brakes yet again after having the rears completely replaced and the front taken off and rotors turned under warranty.

Driving normally now my iPhone 6s disconnects randomly from MFT without any notice and then reconnects on its own.

I have a rattle in the back passenger 2nd row bucket that they can't find.

My wife just leased a 16 Jeep GC Overland and I never thought I would say this but the GC build quality is far better than the Explorer.

Fit and finish of door panels and interior surfaces is much better. Zero squeaks and rattles, much quieter inside, no road noise at all. I have a wind noise leak on the Explorer's driver's door the dealership says is normal.

Inside my door jams I see lots of primer, inside the Grand Cherokee I see no primer at all.

All exterior Grand Cherokee body panels have matching gaps that are exactly the same with all trim pieces lining up perfectly.

The rubber door glass trim on the Explorer isn't sized properly and it bulges up, the Grand Cherokee door glass trim is perfect. This was there on my 2011, 2013, and again on the 2014 Sport, thats unacceptable.

The Uconnect system has probably twice the functionality of MFT & Sync3, its GUI and associated hard controls are very well layed out. The Stereo in the Grand Cherokee is insanely good and no comparison to the Explorer. No iPhone disconnects or Bluetooth issues, and SIRI works flawlessly.

I love the driving characteristics of the Sport, that's what sets it apart from the GC but everything else is far lower quality.

I hope the 2017 Sport is an improvement or I might have to look at a 17 SRT.

 

[peterk9]

It is indeed unfortunate that so many owners are experiencing paint issues. Thanks to your post in another thread I see that there now is a TSB to cover the paint bubbles. TSB 16-0028 which I've added to the 'Sticky' thread on TSB's. The TSB also mentions "Panel replacement is not required".
If they replaced the APIM to correct the issue you were having with the Sync/MFT system, they did not do it out of the "goodness of their hearts". The APIM has a 5 year warranty on it for certain model years. It was extended by Ford due to the number of problems with the early units.
Good luck.

Peter

 

[NIUPonyBoy]

I wish that TSB would fix my paint issues, I'm paying for the repair out of my own pocket.

Atleast others will hopefully have the issue taken care of, still disgusted by the issue.

 

[blwnsmoke]

It is indeed unfortunate that so many owners are experiencing paint issues. Thanks to your post in another thread I see that there now is a TSB to cover the paint bubbles. TSB 16-0028 which I've added to the 'Sticky' thread on TSB's. The TSB also mentions "Panel replacement is not required".
If they replaced the APIM to correct the issue you were having with the Sync/MFT system, they did not do it out of the "goodness of their hearts". The APIM has a 5 year warranty on it for certain model years. It was extended by Ford due to the number of problems with the early units.
Good luck.

Peter

The sad thing is the TSB just tells them the process... it doesn't extend the warranty. So Ford finally acknowledges an issue but still only covers it for 3yr/36k.. pretty sad.

 

[1995E]

I was looking into the Platinum and test drove a few in 2015. But guess what? First thing I notice when I opened the door was that a plastic trim piece wasn't put on right. After 5 years, they still can't get build quality right...

My 2011 Explorer has had nothing but problems all the way to the 5 year powertrain warranty. I've went in at least 10 - 15 times for warranty issues ranging from broken window due to window regulator, A-Pillar rattle (reappeared again but what can you do, it's out of warranty), PTU leak, MFT issues back 3 years ago, hood paint bubbling, transmission bump at low speeds, bad airbag connector, bad door latch, oil in intake tube, bad recirc door motor, advance trac fault, and various other issues I cannot pull out of the top of my head right now but totally pisses me off. I even tried to lemon law it. Should have done it all the way through instead of settle but thought it was okay cause maybe all the issues would be fixed but, now my suspension creaks, I have what sounds like a metal squeak when I accelerate after coasting, etc.

That being said, the car at least takes me from A to B at least and hasn't given me engine trouble (knock on wood), and Ford customer service has been great so far when I had to deal with them about the Explorer. That and I always talk them into a loaner since I need to get to work/ school. I went to Miami Florida and back, Delaware beach and back, New York and back twice, and many commutes to Baltimore and back from essentially DC on a single oil change(gonna change it tomorrow). , wracking up more than 10,000 miles so far since March. This includes tons and tons of full throttle pulls with like 7 180 pound people. At least it does that well. I plan to drive the Explorer until the engine dies so hopefully it'll at least get to 300K miles like my friend's 2005 Explorer and my friend's 2005 JGC.

The 2013 Fusion is also in the shop after multiple issues like creaking noises, rough idle due to carbon build up, glove box light broken, and steering wheel lights out, and Ford won't even fix those cause it's out of warranty and the previous dealership I worked with forgot to write it down and fix it so I'm out of steering wheel lights. Literally trying to lawyer with Ford customer service and they haven't taken care of the creaking noise I brought in for since April when it was in warranty... Changing customer reps on me like 6 or 7 times... Doesn't make sense and that was the only reason why I kind of stuck to Ford, "if I had a problem, they can help me resolve it".

The 2014 F-150 has been in the shop twice already with a leaking rear differential, and air bag sensor recall.

So I think it's safe to say I probably won't return to Ford unless their vehicles are enticing enough again to me. Right now I've been thinking of going something like a Tesla Model X or Model S in replacement and not have to worry about an engine issue or something. In 10 years time, I could probably buy a replacement battery pack for the money I saved on maintenance and gas probably.

I was considering the MKZ or Continental, but the CTS and the new CT6 has a lot more appeal to me. A buddy owns an old CTS-V and it has never given him problems and another has had a CTS with no problems. I would have never considered a GM product before, especially because they have tons of issues too, especially the early ones.

I think my best bet is to get a Toyota. Known for their reliability. However, I think I'm sticking to getting a Tesla right now down the line in 2 years or so.

 

[peterk9]

Saw an interesting article a few weeks ago about the average time certain brands spend sitting on dealer lots. I believe it was Toyota was 8 or 18 days and Cadillac around 224 days. Don't know if I can find it again to be sure. Cadillac ratings also seem to be taking a tumble. That said, I'd like to see the new 2017 XT5 crossover when it comes out.

Peter

 

[Halwg]

There has been a huge improvement in the Explorer from the 2014 I had for two years to the 2016 I am driving now. I had a 2014 XLT with the 3.5 NA engine. Not a good powertrain in my opinion. Mileage wasn't great, the engine wasn't responsive and the transmission did not shift smoothly. After 2 years and about 35,000 miles, it had a BUNCH of creaks and rattles, and it never felt like a solidly built vehicle. My 2010 XLT with 70,000 was much quieter and didn't have the rattles.

The 2016, which is a base, and has the 2.3L ecoboost is a much smoother running, quieter vehicle. This engine and transmission shift much more smoothly and gas mileage on the highway, in WV, has been in excess of 26 mpg. The controls are better, and it's just an all around nicer feeling vehicle.

I'd dump the 2012, or 2013, or 2014, and get a 2017. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised on how much better it is.

 

[bruinsfan]

I miss the body on frame build...

 

[NIUPonyBoy]

I am not getting another Explorer. I am not even sure if I am getting another Ford. Which sucks as I am a Ford guy.

There is nothing Toyota makes that I want. For the first time I am going to consider a GM.

 

[Sgt1411]

I guess its easy to rationalize or justify poor quality when you don't have something directly in front of you to compare to. But when you can actually look higher quality next to your existing vehicle it clarifies things a little more. While build quality is sometimes subjective the issues illustrated here should not be happening at all and then to not cover them claiming the vehicle is out of warranty is very poor customer service. How could burnt out steering wheel lights be anything but a warranty issue?

Things like that bottom door sheet metal fold and rust issue is something that came up in 2011 and was still not improved through the model years.

The A pillar fiasco is beyond discussion it's so unbelievable they could ever say they wouldn't fix that regardless of warranty lapse.

Customers will only except that quality for a while and then they will spend their hard earned money elsewhere.

 

[Sixonemale]

I think something should be made perfectly clear, in general, no one likes to make negative comments about a vehicle, in fact I would much rather be posting about how great the Explorer is, but unfortunately I cannot. I have posted on other forums where owners post back and forth about how great the quality of their car is and how well-made it is, and in fact it’s the truth, a high quality build where attention was paid to all details of the car, extremely well made.

I cannot disagree with NIUPonyBoy’s, Sgt1411’s or 1995E’ comments, the quality assurance/quality control build process on this vehicle is substandard at best. As mentioned several times I owned one of the first Explorers ever made, a 1991 4x4 Eddie Bauer Explorer and third generation 2002 4x4 Eddie Bauer Explorer, both of which I had confidence to drive on long trips and never had huge maintenance costs. They had their flaws, no doubt, but also had some strengths. I don’t feel confident with this generation of Explorer and am waiting for the next thing to go wrong.

The automobile industry is flying high and could just beginning to taper down from a huge bull run based on May 2016 car sales data. So, lots of cars have been sold and during great times where mistakes are glossed over, this occurs in all business industries during good times. It’s not till times get tougher or leaner do mistakes get magnified.

Ford should be more forward thinking and treat their customers who have had catastrophic problems with more flexibility and generosity. For instance, the person who started the thread where their water pump led to a seized engine was 1,000 miles out of warranty if my memory serves me correctly. His family also owned eight Fords and as far as I know Ford did not help him and his family with the cost of replacing their entire engine, sad. From my experience where there is customer loyalty, customers are treated a bit beyond the norm, not with a hard line drawn in the sand. This also goes for the TSB issue associated with paint, they should take ownership of their mistakes, not put it on the customer.

I’m currently at the point of making a decision as to whether to keep or sell my Explorer. I don’t have all that many miles on it, but I really don’t want to go through trouble shooting noises in the front end again and continue on with inconsistencies in the electronics, in addition to encountering many other problems that other owners have already encountered. Today I heard the cowling buzz coming from the front windshield, what next?

Again, let me reiterate, I would much rather be posting positive comments.

 

[aznkidlee]

Here are some positive comments.

I'm a young owner and my 2012 Ford Explorer is the 2nd Ford I have owned and I'm one of the lucky ones that have zero problems. I have driven it cross country about 6000 miles and it has not let me down. I purchased extended warranty for 10 year / 100,000 miles. This is my daily driver with about 61K and here is my list of some of my maintenance. The vehicle is serviced between 5-7K and I live up in the Northeast with crazy winters. Cabin noise is still very quiet and I do not see any rust build up along the doors or hood. I have leather interior and the driver seat does seem worn but I cannot compare to anything I had before. This is my first car with leather interior.
1) Transmission bump at low speeds. Reprogramed PCM and issue was fixed - 29K
2) Squeaky Serpentine belt - Replaced - 39K
3) Rear rotors and pads were squeaking and were replaced - 42K
4) Squeak noises from steering wheel when turning side to side. Only happens in the winter with single digits. No real fix was done - 42K
5) Replace Keyless entry pad - 50K
6) Water leaking from the roof of 3rd - 50K
7) Transmission Flush - 56K
8) Replace front rotors and pads - 61K

 

[Halwg]

Here are some positive comments.

I'm a young owner and my 2012 Ford Explorer is the 2nd Ford I have owned and I'm one of the lucky ones that have zero problems. I have driven it cross country about 6000 miles and it has not let me down. I purchased extended warranty for 10 year / 100,000 miles. This is my daily driver with about 61K and here is my list of some of my maintenance. The vehicle is serviced between 5-7K and I live up in the Northeast with crazy winters. Cabin noise is still very quiet and I do not see any rust build up along the doors or hood. I have leather interior and the driver seat does seem worn but I cannot compare to anything I had before. This is my first car with leather interior.
1) Transmission bump at low speeds. Reprogramed PCM and issue was fixed - 29K
2) Squeaky Serpentine belt - Replaced - 39K
3) Rear rotors and pads were squeaking and were replaced - 42K
4) Squeak noises from steering wheel when turning side to side. Only happens in the winter with single digits. No real fix was done - 42K
5) Replace Keyless entry pad - 50K
6) Water leaking from the roof of 3rd - 50K
7) Transmission Flush - 56K
8) Replace front rotors and pads - 61K

That's a lot of issues for a 2012 vehicle with only 61K miles. None of those items should have needed replacement yet. You confirmed the poor build quality that is being expounded on above.

 

[aznkidlee]

#7 and #8 were maintenance issues were not related to poor build quality. Having 6 issues does not seem that bad.

 

[NIUPonyBoy]

I got the Expo back this AM, looks good and he radio and such work again. Yay. Or something.

 

[NIUPonyBoy]

It looks pretty good right now, but for how long?

 

[bruinsfan]

#7 and #8 were maintenance issues were not related to poor build quality. Having 6 issues does not seem that bad.

wow... six issues isn't that bad?

 

[RandyH2]

From conversations with engineers at Ford, EVERY decision is driven by the dollar/stock price. I mentioned the terrible thumping when driving with a window down and was told the fix was an 8 cent piece of plastic that was denied because of the cost. I get it.

Ford is BIG business, profit driven for the short term. Look at the future of the industry and it is obvious why: vehicle life expectancy is at an all-time high, technology is rapidly reducing the frequency and seriousness of wrecks (fewer totalled vehicles to be replaced), Uber and others are reducing the need for vehicles, the younger drivers are losing interest in car ownership/driving, etc. But perhaps the biggest threat is the advent of self-driving cars and the ability to share ownership of a vehicle. Ten years from now I may own a small share of a car that picks me up when summoned then drops me off and goes on to the next user. Imagine what that model does to total vehicle sales! Ford Corporate has likely already seen the economics and is currently selling everything they can to make as much money as possible while the market holds. Quality is no longer Job #1, quantity is most important. Having millions of failing vehicles on the road will at least guarantee revenue from parts and service for both Corporate and the massive dealer network.