2011 Explorer XLT - 3.5L V6 TIVCT Engine - Misfire - P0201, P0301, P0316

[Dustin Wiser]

Hi guys, 2012 Explorer 70k. Started hesitating under medium to heavy load while driving. Misfire like. Put new motorcraft plugs in. Same thing. No CEL. Just a misfire mostly while going up hills or accelerating. Sometimes it gets bad. Sometimes it does it once or twice at idle. Starts up and idle fine. Most noticeably after the truck is warmed up.

 

[TommyBoy2011]

Car diagnosed, CEL did not have the P0300, P0305/306 code when at the dealer, but rather P0430. Dealer suspects bank 2 catalytic converter, quoted me $790 for a new cat and o2 sensors, plus labor. Yea... no. My altima has been throwing the 430 code for nearly a year, it has 190K on it, but it doesn't cause the engine to misfire. Going to start with changing the plugs and upper intake gasket, since it has to come off.

 

[MikB]

I think they're throwing in the cat for effect (big pay day). o2 sensors are fairly cheap and fairly easy to change. I would replace that [myself] before I let them touch the cat. Cats don't generally have to be replaced unless they get plugged or they simply fall apart from the inside.

 

[TommyBoy2011]

Yea, I'm gonna start with the plugs first. I wasn't able to get it to misfire yesterday, but the 430 came back about 40 min after I cleared it. I cleared it again and it hasn't came back, yet, that I am aware of (wife is driving it today).

 

[jlrohio]

So, I'm back again...

I have noticed some recent idle issues when my 2011 Explorer came to a stop sign or stoplight, the idle would go below 400 RPM's for a bit. It shuddered the vehicle and seemed as though it would stall but then it quickly came back to normal idle and there would be no drivability issues noticed. At future stops, it may or may not occur again.

There was no Check Engine Light so I rented a scanner from AutoZone and found the P160A code listed.
I tried to erase the P160A code but it kept coming back.



Here at ExplorerForum, I found a post titled:
13e04 - pcm configuration error - recall?
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/index.php?threads/13e04-pcm-configuration-error-recall.402395/

In that thread it stated:

Affected vehicles: 2011 Ford Edge, Ford Explorer and Lincoln MKX vehicles that received a PCM calibration in service.

Situation: In some of the affected vehicles, the “Learn” command may not have been performed when the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) was preprogramed in service. This condition will cause a reset of the OBD-II system on every vehicle power-up cycle, which leads to a “Not Ready” condition and sets a non-MIL P160A DTC. While no drivability symptoms will be present during vehicle operation, the OBD system will not function normally and MIL indication will be inhibited.

And another website (F150 forums) listed it as:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

P160A - Control Module Vehicle Options Reconfiguration Error

Description:
This DTC sets when the PCM detects a mismatch in configuration data and programmable parameters between the PCM and BCM.

Possible Causes:
- Module reprogramming
- Aftermarket performance products
- PCM

Diagnostic Aids:
Reprogram or update the calibration. If the PCM already has the latest calibration, carry out the relearn vehicle data procedure on the scan tool. Check for other DTCs or drive symptoms for further action. Make sure to check for aftermarket performance products before installing a new PCM. If it is necessary to install a new PCM, refer to Section 2, Flash Electrically Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory (EEPROM), Programming the VID Block for a replacement PCM.

Application Key On Engine Off Key On Engine Running Continuous Memory All. Refer to the Description, Possible Causes and Diagnostic Aids for the DTC.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I guess I'll be back at the dealer, who replaced my PCM, and see if they did not do something properly when they installed the PCM and programmed it.

 

[jlrohio]

Finally got my Explorer to the dealer to troubleshoot the P160A code. They used the above information that I found on the internet to reconfigure the PCM properly and do the "relearn" procedure. They also said everything "looked good and it was running fine".


...within a mile of driving away from the dealer, while waiting at a stop light - the idle started to act up again and go down below 500RPM's. I immediately turned around and drove back to the dealer - stopping at an AutoZone on the way there to "rent" a scanner. Also, while driving it back to the dealer, the engine started cutting in and out as though it was misfiring but this time I was also seeing the Check Engine Light (CEL) blinking. That was actually something of a good sign this time...because the P160A code was causing me to not have any CEL's as it was erasing any codes upon each startup.


The dealer was getting ready to close so I turned the vehicle back into the remaining service writer to leave for tomorrow morning for them to take a look at it. I also hooked up the scanner in the parking lot and I had a P0301 code (Misfire Cylinder #1) show up - one of the same codes I originally had when this ordeal started back in September.

Back in September, the dealer said it was a shorted out PCM that was causing a misfire to Cylinder #1 and they replaced the PCM under warranty and the vehicle has operated just fine for the past three or so months. I'm at a loss as to what could cause this to possibly come up again. If the dealer was not as far away as it is...I'd do some more troubleshooting on my own to rule out the spark plug, coil, and injector again before letting them look at it.

 

[TommyBoy2011]

Changed the plugs out yesterday, the gap on the plugs that came out we well over .080. They should have been .051 to .057. The replacements were all gaped at .051. Installation of the front 3 was really easy, the back 3 not so much. The intake has to be removed, as well as the air snorkel, and throttle body disconnected from the intake. The intake has 7 bolts you can see, and one you cannot, under the throttle body. Took me a while to find that one. All in all about 2 hours, a lot of that because I could not find the bolt under the throttle body. Reset the check engine and took it out for a test drive, several hard accelerations from 45 to 90MPH, several redline hits (per the dash tach). No misfires and no P0430 code. Hopefully this solves my issue.

Serpentine belt, coolant change, and trash fluid exchange left to do now. Anyone know if the tensioner is supposed to be replaced with the belt? On my altima it is, else the bearing wears out... found that out the hard way.

 

[blwnsmoke]

Finally got my Explorer to the dealer to troubleshoot the P160A code. They used the above information that I found on the internet to reconfigure the PCM properly and do the "relearn" procedure. They also said everything "looked good and it was running fine".


...within a mile of driving away from the dealer, while waiting at a stop light - the idle started to act up again and go down below 500RPM's. I immediately turned around and drove back to the dealer - stopping at an AutoZone on the way there to "rent" a scanner. Also, while driving it back to the dealer, the engine started cutting in and out as though it was misfiring but this time I was also seeing the Check Engine Light (CEL) blinking. That was actually something of a good sign this time...because the P160A code was causing me to not have any CEL's as it was erasing any codes upon each startup.


The dealer was getting ready to close so I turned the vehicle back into the remaining service writer to leave for tomorrow morning for them to take a look at it. I also hooked up the scanner in the parking lot and I had a P0301 code (Misfire Cylinder #1) show up - one of the same codes I originally had when this ordeal started back in September.

Back in September, the dealer said it was a shorted out PCM that was causing a misfire to Cylinder #1 and they replaced the PCM under warranty and the vehicle has operated just fine for the past three or so months. I'm at a loss as to what could cause this to possibly come up again. If the dealer was not as far away as it is...I'd do some more troubleshooting on my own to rule out the spark plug, coil, and injector again before letting them look at it.

If you have a blinking CEL, you are supposed to pull over and shut the vehicle off to prevent engine damage. Only when it is a solid CEL can you continue to drive the vehicle.. just an fyi.

 

[TommyBoy2011]

Changed the plugs out yesterday, the gap on the plugs that came out we well over .080. They should have been .051 to .057. The replacements were all gaped at .051. Installation of the front 3 was really easy, the back 3 not so much. The intake has to be removed, as well as the air snorkel, and throttle body disconnected from the intake. The intake has 7 bolts you can see, and one you cannot, under the throttle body. Took me a while to find that one. All in all about 2 hours, a lot of that because I could not find the bolt under the throttle body. Reset the check engine and took it out for a test drive, several hard accelerations from 45 to 90MPH, several redline hits (per the dash tach). No misfires and no P0430 code. Hopefully this solves my issue.

Serpentine belt, coolant change, and trash fluid exchange left to do now. Anyone know if the tensioner is supposed to be replaced with the belt? On my altima it is, else the bearing wears out... found that out the hard way.

***Update***
CEL came back on a few days after changing the plugs. Decided to try replacing the coil for the cylinder which had previously recorded a misfire a while back. Did that a few days ago, no CEL since. Got the emissions inspection done, and passed. Hoping the CEL stays off for good, or at least for a long while.

 

[jlrohio]

*** Update ***

My latest written about issue ended up being diagnosed at the dealer as a bad #1 coil. I let the dealer change it out. They also said they had to replace the spark plug. (Reminder - all the spark-plugs were replaced 3 months ago).

 

[jlrohio]

If you have a blinking CEL, you are supposed to pull over and shut the vehicle off to prevent engine damage. Only when it is a solid CEL can you continue to drive the vehicle.. just an fyi.

Thanks, I did not know that...or skipped over that when reading the manual.

I guess years of experincing different & various types of CEL's does not help one understand the nuances of each seperate one.

Hopefully in the future, cars will provide better feedback to drivers.

 

[TommyBoy2011]

Changed the plugs out yesterday, the gap on the plugs that came out we well over .080. They should have been .051 to .057. The replacements were all gaped at .051. Installation of the front 3 was really easy, the back 3 not so much. The intake has to be removed, as well as the air snorkel, and throttle body disconnected from the intake. The intake has 7 bolts you can see, and one you cannot, under the throttle body. Took me a while to find that one. All in all about 2 hours, a lot of that because I could not find the bolt under the throttle body. Reset the check engine and took it out for a test drive, several hard accelerations from 45 to 90MPH, several redline hits (per the dash tach). No misfires and no P0430 code. Hopefully this solves my issue.

Serpentine belt, coolant change, and trash fluid exchange left to do now. Anyone know if the tensioner is supposed to be replaced with the belt? On my altima it is, else the bearing wears out... found that out the hard way.

***Update***
CEL came back on a few days after changing the plugs. Decided to try replacing the coil for the cylinder which had previously recorded a misfire a while back. Did that a few days ago, no CEL since. Got the emissions inspection done, and passed. Hoping the CEL stays off for good, or at least for a long while.

***Update 2***
CEL cam back a few days after swapping out the coil and getting the emissions test. Ordered and replaced (friday the down stream, bank 2, O2 sensor. Took all of 15 min and only had to remove the foam engine cover to do it. Reset the CEL and drove it around all day yesterday, about 100 miles of mixed cit and interstate driving. No CEL. Fingers crossed.

 

[jlrohio]

***Update 2***
CEL cam back a few days after swapping out the coil and getting the emissions test. Ordered and replaced (friday the down stream, bank 2, O2 sensor. Took all of 15 min and only had to remove the foam engine cover to do it. Reset the CEL and drove it around all day yesterday, about 100 miles of mixed cit and interstate driving. No CEL. Fingers crossed.

Did the P0430 code lead you to replace that particular O2 sensor?

Out of curiosity, how many O2 sensors are on this vehicle? Does each one have their own code?

 

[TommyBoy2011]

No. I had the dealer check the PCM, and it came back fine. The wanted to replace the cat and both O2 sensors. I can do that all myself, I just figured I'd do it one piece at a time, and I do wind up replacing the cat, I'll just put in the new o2 sensors into the new car. FYI, the P0430 CEL came back today, 5 days after the 02 sensor was replace. Will replace the upstream sensor after I care ieve it and have time too.

There are 4 o2 sensors on the 3.5L, 2 pre cat and 2 post cat.

 

[jlrohio]

No. I had the dealer check the PCM, and it came back fine. The wanted to replace the cat and both O2 sensors. I can do that all myself, I just figured I'd do it one piece at a time, and I do wind up replacing the cat, I'll just put in the new o2 sensors into the new car. FYI, the P0430 CEL came back today, 5 days after the 02 sensor was replace. Will replace the upstream sensor after I care ieve it and have time too.

There are 4 o2 sensors on the 3.5L, 2 pre cat and 2 post cat.

How much are the O2 sensors running you? I remember back in the old days they used to run about $15 or so - but that was back in the 90's!


...and have you priced a Cat - I know those can be expen$ive!!

 

[TommyBoy2011]

How much are the O2 sensors running you? I remember back in the old days they used to run about $15 or so - but that was back in the 90's!


...and have you priced a Cat - I know those can be expen$ive!!

Down steam are 35-40, up stream are about 80-90. Dealer wanted 140 and 220 respectively, and about 550 for a cat, plus install. Pfft!

 

[TommyBoy2011]

***Update 3***
Check engine lite came one after replacing both 02 sensors, so I finally decided to replace the cat. Got the part from rock auto, planed to do it myself, but go a job offer in AL, so had to get it put on at a repair shop before taking a trip down there. Anyway, the cat from rock auto came with the manifold gasket, the repair shop had some fitment issues (not a lot of detail but it didn't line up exactly with the exhaust pipe). They charged me $110 for the labor (installing the new cat, swapping over my newer o2 sensors) The part was $240, $270 with the feld pro gaskets i purchased (and am now returning). They also gave me the old cat back... I gave it to a guy who recycles metal, I'm sure he'll get a few bucks for it. You will need to purchase flange gaskets, as the cat did not come with those. The repair shop tried to reuse the old one, but it developed a leak. I wound up replacing it and all is well now.

 

[Robert Tokarz]

***Update 3***
Check engine lite came one after replacing both 02 sensors, so I finally decided to replace the cat. Got the part from rock auto, planed to do it myself, but go a job offer in AL, so had to get it put on at a repair shop before taking a trip down there. Anyway, the cat from rock auto came with the manifold gasket, the repair shop had some fitment issues (not a lot of detail but it didn't line up exactly with the exhaust pipe). They charged me $110 for the labor (installing the new cat, swapping over my newer o2 sensors) The part was $240, $270 with the feld pro gaskets i purchased (and am now returning). They also gave me the old cat back... I gave it to a guy who recycles metal, I'm sure he'll get a few bucks for it. You will need to purchase flange gaskets, as the cat did not come with those. The repair shop tried to reuse the old one, but it developed a leak. I wound up replacing it and all is well now.

Did replacing the cat fix the issues? I’m having the same problems and can’t seem to get it to stop misfiring.

 

[TommyBoy2011]

It did, for a while. It came back though. Now I am getting a P0420 and P0430 code. Recently replaced the valve cover, as the TSB for the oil getting into the air cleaner box was never done. I only did that because I was also replacing all the fuel injectors. Codes still come back...

 

[peterk9]

It did, for a while. It came back though. Now I am getting a P0420 and P0430 code. Recently replaced the valve cover, as the TSB for the oil getting into the air cleaner box was never done. I only did that because I was also replacing all the fuel injectors. Codes still come back...

FYI; P0420 and P0430 Codes

Peter