99 5.0L Balancer/Synchronizer timing WAY out...

[skpyle]

Hello Gentlemen,

To be blunt, the timing is way out on the harmonic balancer and/or the camshaft synchronizer on my 1999 Limited 5.0L AWD.

Back story: Synchronizer has been chirping for quite awhile now. I would take the CPS off, dribble some ATF down the housing, and it would be good. For awhile.

Last week, I installed a new Motorcraft DA-2090 / XL2Z-12A362-AA camshaft synchronizer and Standard Motor Products PC321 CPS. The synchronizer and CPS removed were OEM Ford, with 197,*** miles on them.
I was unable to find TDC markings on the harmonic balancer. So...I turned the engine by hand until the flag on the synchronizer drive was in the middle of the sensor opening. I used the correct 5.0L tool from the Spectra Premium TK01 CPS alignment tool set. I moved the crankshaft until the tool fit perfectly on the flag and housing of the synchronizer housing.

My thinking was this, camshaft synchronizer acts like a distributor in that it turns once for every two crankshaft revolutions. So, it will only face forward once. I put the flag in that position with the old synchronizer, and installed the new one in the same position.

Note, my Explorer ran like a top before this repair, it had no issues other than the chirping synchronizer. After the repair, it ran the same, or even a little better. I noticed the gas mileage improving.

A couple of days later, I sat down with wire brushes and brake cleaner to find any markings on the harmonic balancer. I found them. And cleaned them. I then figured I would double check the setting of the camshaft synchronizer. Maybe it would be a few degrees out at most. So, I took the CPS off again and rotated the engine until the tool from the TK01 kit fit properly on the synchronizer.

Yeah. It was WAY out! As in 'on the A for ATC' markings out. Remember, engine runs fine, good power, no CEL. I figured the harmonic balancer outer ring had shifted. I ordered the necessary parts.


Fast forward to today. I removed the old balancer and front seal from the timing cover. New seal and installed the new balancer. I installed an ATP/Graywerks 102140 balancer assembly and Mahle 46293 front cover seal. For good measure, I installed a new BWD 1802-304400 crankshaft position sensor and bracket.

Before installation, I compared the old and new balancers. They were disturbingly similar. In that the positions of the markings in relation to the keyway was the same.

Well...NOTHING CHANGED! With the TK01 tool on the camshaft synchronizer, the pointer on the crankshaft position sensor pointed at the A in ATC. The same place as the old one.

For those of you still reading...now what? The ATC mark on the balancer is some 20 degrees past the TDC mark. If the CPS were that far out, I would think it would set a code and light the CEL.

Do I turn the crank until the TDC marking lines up with the pointer on the crankshaft position sensor, then repositon the camshaft synchronizer?

Do I live with it?

I am open to suggestion...

Thanks!
Seth K. Pyle


I apologize for the lack of photos. Since photobucket went stupid and wants $400 to allow me to post photos, I am without a host. Here is a link to an album I have created on my google account:

Sign in - Google Accounts

EDIT: Never mind about the google album, I figured it out. See next post.

***

 

[skpyle]

TK01 tool on top of the old camshaft synchronizer. Ignore the mottled appearance. I discovered that the tool is NOT resistant to brake cleaner.

Old synchronizer on the left, new Motorcraft synchronizer on the right.

Comparing the sensor flags, old on left, new on right.

New Motorcraft camshaft synchronizer and new Standard Motor Products CPS.

Top view of TK01 5.0L sensor alignment tool.

Front view of TK01 tool, showing cut outs to line up with slots in camshaft synchronizer.

Underside of TK01 tool, showing alignment casting for the sensor flag in the synchronizer housing.

New sensor mounted on new synchronizer, in same place as old ones. Yes, I know the new sensor is pointing slightly to the left of dead straight. Moving it one tooth back made it point slightly to the right of dead straight. I chose left for better access to the CPS in the future.

New harmonic balancer assembly.

Part number for balancer.

New BWD crankshaft position sensor and bracket with OEM Ford parts, new on left, old on right.

New crankshaft sensor bracket, pointing at 'A' in ATC on old harmonic balancer. Note, old crankshaft sensor bracket pointed at the same place.

Comparing balancers, old on left, new on right.

Same.

Same. Note timing markings, relatively clear on new balancer, very faint on OEM balancer.

Note missing tooth on reluctor wheel for crankshaft position sensor is aligned with the keyway on both balancers.

New crankshaft position sensor bracket pointing at 'A' in ATC on the new harmonic balancer. That tells me the old balancer ring had not shifted. And I wasted my time...

 

[skpyle]

Tomorrow morning, I will pull #1 spark plug and find TDC through the plug hole, then see where the balancer is.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

unless you had a vibration in the motor, the outer ring on the balancer should be fine (and you would know if you had one). that and i never trust the timing marks on the blanacer. i always go TDC and make sure the motor is in the center of the rock. when i find that, i then make my own mark on the damper. i have had one fail me, and that was due to a aftermarket (oem replacement) water pump hitting the damper and moving the outer ring. that cost me a rebuilt balancer from damper dudes (i have a 28 oz balancer with a explorer reluctor wheel pinned to the back of it), and new crank, bearings and rebalance.....over a 100 dollar water pump that was cast incorrectly.

 

[CDW6212R]

It sounds like the synchronizer is off a tooth. Do like Tim suggested, find TDC closely and then reset the cam synch with the tool.

Each tooth off is about 22 degrees, which is close to where you say it points on the balancer.

Get the crank to a place before it's reaching TDC, and with a finger on the #1 plug hole, turn the crank towards TDC on the balancer. If there is pressure pushing the finger out, you are on the compression stroke, and can then move the crank to point at TDC. Then use the tool to set the cam synch. If the sensor points too far to one direction, then it's off at least one tooth.

 

[Turdle]

Place a piece of tape around the balancer. Using a piston stop ( you can make one) rotate the engine by hand slowly clockwise until it hits, and make a mark on the tape which lines up with the timing mark. Now, rotate the engine counterclockwise slowly, until it stops again, and make another mark. Using a flexible tape measure ( sewing tape measure) find the center of those 2 marks. This will be your true TDC. Make a good mark there-

Now, once you have determined you are on the compression stroke, rotate the engine clockwise, slowly, to 10 degrees past your new mark, then go counterclockwise slowly back to your mark ( takes slack out of timing chain) and drop in your CPS with the tool on top,

 

[CDW6212R]

Great extra knowledge there from Turdle. Knowing where the actual TDC is takes away any manufacturing error of the balancer, and checks that it is still good too. I have a piston stop, but I've only used it once. Everyone should have access to one for really working on an engine right.

 

[Turdle]

Home made piston stop. Brass fitting tapped for the bolt,

and a locking nut to hold it in place

 

[skpyle]

unless you had a vibration in the motor, the outer ring on the balancer should be fine (and you would know if you had one). that and i never trust the timing marks on the blanacer. i always go TDC and make sure the motor is in the center of the rock. when i find that, i then make my own mark on the damper. i have had one fail me, and that was due to a aftermarket (oem replacement) water pump hitting the damper and moving the outer ring. that cost me a rebuilt balancer from damper dudes (i have a 28 oz balancer with a explorer reluctor wheel pinned to the back of it), and new crank, bearings and rebalance.....over a 100 dollar water pump that was cast incorrectly.

Good points, vroomzoomboom. No, I had no vibrations, the 5.0L engine runs quite well. I ASSumed the outer ring moved because of the timing discrepancy I was seeing. I naively thought to trust the markings on the balancer.
I will take your advice and find true TDC via the spark plug hole.
Ouch, that hurt. To my knowledge, a custom balancer for a stroker motor is not cheap.
Thanks!

It sounds like the synchronizer is off a tooth. Do like Tim suggested, find TDC closely and then reset the cam synch with the tool.

Each tooth off is about 22 degrees, which is close to where you say it points on the balancer.


Get the crank to a place before it's reaching TDC, and with a finger on the #1 plug hole, turn the crank towards TDC on the balancer. If there is pressure pushing the finger out, you are on the compression stroke, and can then move the crank to point at TDC. Then use the tool to set the cam synch. If the sensor points too far to one direction, then it's off at least one tooth.

OK, I will to as you say CDW6212R. I will find TDC via the spark plug hole. The timing discrepancy is messing with me because it has been like this for years. I have owned this Explorer for just about 5 years, and I know the PO, who had it since 2003. I didn't see anything regarding the CPS or synchronizer in any of the service history.
Very good point about being 1 tooth off. I am going to fix this.

Place a piece of tape around the balancer. Using a piston stop ( you can make one) rotate the engine by hand slowly clockwise until it hits, and make a mark on the tape which lines up with the timing mark. Now, rotate the engine counterclockwise slowly, until it stops again, and make another mark. Using a flexible tape measure ( sewing tape measure) find the center of those 2 marks. This will be your true TDC. Make a good mark there-

Now, once you have determined you are on the compression stroke, rotate the engine clockwise, slowly, to 10 degrees past your new mark, then go counterclockwise slowly back to your mark ( takes slack out of timing chain) and drop in your CPS with the tool on top,

Great extra knowledge there from Turdle. Knowing where the actual TDC is takes away any manufacturing error of the balancer, and checks that it is still good too. I have a piston stop, but I've only used it once. Everyone should have access to one for really working on an engine right.

Excellent idea Turdle! I think I have what I need to fabricate a piston stop. I am going to start off by doing a straw in the plug hole to get a rough idea of where TDC is, and go from there.


Gentlemen, thank you very much for your ideas! I am heading out to start working on my Explorer after finishing morning chores. I will report back with what I find.

Question, though: any idea why I have never seen a code for the CPS with mine being so far out of time?

Seth K. Pyle

 

[CDW6212R]

The computer doesn't know where TDC is, that is, it uses the crank sensor for that(assumes the balancer is accurate). So it bases timing and fuel by the two sensors, which is what you are trying to be sure are accurate.

 

[skpyle]

Grrr...this has been alot harder than it should have been. After a few hours of frustration, I believe I have found TDC, and the markings on the balancer match. I tried to make a piston stop, but I don't have an M14 x 1.25 die. I tried filing the threads on a brass 1/4NPT bushing, but I could never get them to start in the threads in the cylinder head. I had screwed a 1/8NPT close nipple into the bushing, then tapped M8 x 1.25 threads for a tap bolt that I have that I thought would have been long enough.
But, that didn't work.

I tried a straw, different screw drivers, even my USB borescope camera to look in the plug hole and feel/watch the piston motion for #1.
The straw was too flimsy. The screwdrivers kept felt like they were getting stuck. IE, I would push the screw driver into the hole, slowly turn the crank, and the screwdriver would feel like it was bound up. I had visions of the screw driver caught under a valve head...
The borescope just didn't show me enough detail to make a good decision.

I eventually drilled out an adapter from my leak down kit to allow a long M8 bolt to pass. I used the adapter as a guide bushing so the bolt would be straight into the hole. By futzing with that over and over, I got a sense of when the piston stopped moving up. That point coincided with TDC on the balancer.

Note, I did rotate the crank several times and felt the air 'poof' out of the plug hole to verify I was on the compression stroke.

So, I am now going to reposition the camshaft synchronizer, and will check back in later.

 

[CDW6212R]

Good work Seth, it is very tedious to work out a task with odd things at hand.

 

[skpyle]

Thank you, Don!

I am no stranger to 'making it up as I go.'

I am reassembling everything else now, fitting new radiator hoses, etc...
Silly question: should I disconnect the battery so the PCM can 'relearn' due to the new position of the CPS?

Thanks,
Seth

 

[CDW6212R]

The battery should be unplugged for anything that might have a main power cable touched by accident, but not for the CPS or minor things like that. These PCM's are good enough that they set baselines for things like the TPS idle signal, and the CPS etc. It sounds like you're on the last of the project, and won't be shorting the battery cables. I'd leave it connected, sorry to be long winded, just being thorough.

 

[skpyle]

Don, you are not long winded, I appreciate the thoroughness.
Yep, I am mixing coolant now, hope to start it soon!

 

[skpyle]

Alright, it runs!!! However, it scared the bejezzus outta me. As soon as the engine fired, I heard a continuous 'Tak - tak - tak...'
I immediately shut it off and checked my pants for fecal matter.
I started the engine back up and searched all over. Fan, accessory drive, etc... all looked and sounded OK. 'Tak'-ing noise appeared to be coming from the passenger side valve cover, front. Cylinder 1. Where I had been shoving a screwdriver into the plug hole and rotating the crank.
I had visions of a messed up valve, rocker arm, pushrod, whatever.
I crawled under, noise was not magnified. Did not sound like a bottom end knock.
Back up top, I tried to use a long screwdriver as a sounding rod. Did not sound like it was coming from the CPS or camshaft synchronizer.
I had my tablet on running Torque Pro. I noticed the sound diminishing somewhat as the engine came up to temp. I let it continue to run.
All vital signs looked good on Torque Pro: vacuum, coolant temp, trans temp, RPM, voltage, spark advance all looked normal. The CEL was not illuminated, and scanning for fault codes with Torque Pro found none.

For what it is worth, there have been NO noises from this engine for the 80,000 miles I have owned it. This is the first.

After about 15 minutes of idling, the sound was completely gone. Gently rev'ing the engine showed no noise. I am going to hope it was a stuck lifter or something to that effect. I am about to go on a 30 mile round trip drive to return the rental harmonic balancer installer tool kit. We shall see how she runs.

On a side note, replacing the upper and lower radiator hoses, bypass hose, front heater hose, thermostat, and gasket appears to have taken care of the annoying coolant leak I have been dealing with for quite some time. I suspect the bypass hose...


Seth K. Pyle

Piston stop I attempted to fabricate on top, and leak down tester adapter I used as a guide for a bolt to find TDC through the spark plug hole at bottom.

Balancer at TDC.

Camshaft synchronizer flag now misaligned with the balancer at TDC.

Adjusted the camshaft synchronizer to realign the flag with the balancer at TDC.

CPS is pointing quite a bit to the passenger's side. I chose to just move the housing to align it. I wanted to make sure everything would run right first. Later, when I get in there again, I will pull the synchronizer and set it so the sensor points dead front.

All back together and ready for a test drive.

 

[skpyle]

Successful test drive!

Engine ran smooth the whole way, vitals looked good via Torque Pro. No CEL. And fuel mileage was improving.

Big load off my mind.

Thank you all very much for your help and advice!

Seth K. Pyle

 

[CDW6212R]

Well done, now enjoy it for a while.

 

[skpyle]

Yep, back to daily driving. And I can get back to work on my Porsche 928S as seen in the photo in post #2.

 

[skpyle]

After a few days of daily driving, I can say all is well with the balancer, synchronizer, and CPS. Engine runs like a top, no CEL,and fuel mileage is better by 1-2MPG than before.
Too bad the coolant leak is back, though not as bad. Looking closer at the photos of the balancer replacement, it looks like there is dried coolant crud on the underside of the water pump bearing snout. Might be water pump time soon.
And then I will decide if I want to tackle the timing chain or not.
Good times.