Tow capacity who has pulled at 5,000lbs or more? And what should I do to prep/mod?

[Magus2727]

Is the unibody construction on the Explorer the limiting reason for only 5,000 lbs? When the 3.5l EcoBoost is the same it in a F-150 that has more than 2x the tow capacity?

I am trying to balance a car trailer that can haul a track car (Ford Focus) and possibly a Jeep Cherokee. The 5,000lb "limit" is finding it quite difficult that can handle a enclosed trailer with a 3,500lb vehicle to weigh less than 5,000 lbs.

Most enclosed aluminum trailers weigh in from 2,200 to 2,600 depending on size and options. Open trailers cut about 500lbs but then it's not as multifunctional.

I am interested in the possible reasoning behind the Explorer having the tow capacity it does. Hear those who have towed at or even over the limit.

I live in Utah area so have mountains in all directions when I tow.

I have a 2018 Sport, so comes with the tow package. Are there any other upgrades people would recommend when towing a closer to max capacity? Another extra trans cooler? Larger oil cooler? Different intercooler? Other performance mods? Different hitch than the class 3 from Ford?

Thank you for any and all towing input you can provide.

 

[peterk9]

You will find several articles on towing capacities of vehicles on the Internet. They mention that the towing capacity is set by the manufacturer in order to maintain safety in most cases. Maximum limits are set to avoid unsafe conditions and to prevent possible damage to the vehicle's engine, transmission, wheel bearings and axles and to avoid the possibility of voiding the manufacturer's warranty. Exceeding the established tow limit will also affect braking and handling. There are also possible legal implications that could come into play in case of an accident, etc. Tow Ratings and the Law: Discussing the Limits of Trailer Size
Also, don't forget that the 5000 lbs towing capacity is with the use of a weight distribution hitch.
I believe the 3.5L Ecoboost in the F-150 has 375 HP and 470 ft/lb torque. You really can't compare the Explorer with the F-150 in towing capacity. No matter what you add to the Explorer, the manufacturer's stated maximum towing capacity is what it is.
Sounds like you should have bought an 'F' series truck or rent one when required.

Peter

 

[Magus2727]

Fully understand the legal. I Google searched and have read several articles and other threads on the subject. Needed a 7 passanger vehicle. Wanted a truck and wanted the Raptor but needed a 3rd row.

There are lots of vehicles that are unibody that have higher towing with equal power and tq values. There are also vehicles that are body on frame with less power that can tow more. There are also tow limits different for identical vehicles when you look at tow capacity in Europe vs US. (max 55MPH speed limit set this?)

Regardless I am asking what have people done to the vehicle who regarly tow at or around the 5,000 lbs "limit".

Edit: do manufactures publish test results from the SAE J2807 testing performed?

 

[peterk9]

Check out this thread. Not sure if it will help. Towing: Whats the most weight you have towed?
Don't know about the SAE J2807 testing.

Peter

 

[Magus2727]

That does help. I did a rabbit hole of link after link and found some stuff or at least what other people are towing.

What I have not seen is any long term impacts of recommended updates to the engine or drive train. Example would a upgraded cooler (oil, trans, coolant, etc) be wanted. Would brakes be wanted to upgrade to a better compound (make it clear a fill electric brake controler would be used on trailer)

 

[Ironworker40]

You need a bigger truck! If you want a third row why didn't you buy an Expedition, Navigator,Tahoe, Suburban etc
If I were you a buy a used single cab no frills pickup (with 4.10 gears) to tow race car and let everyone else drive in the explorer. You are going to beet the crap out of the explorer and turn it into a pos.

 

[Magus2727]

^^^ thank you for your thoughts. Not the help I am looking for though. Ford has rated this vehicle for 5,000 lbs. As it stands right now. I am looking for what others have done to ensure that it works well and or even better than it sits now when towing the rated 5,000 lbs. Looking at the fine print I am also suppose to derate a % for every 1,000 feet in elevation. But that appears to be more engine rated. And has been stated in other threads the NA and the EcoBoost are both rated at 5,000 lbs so the chassis is limited and the reduced power at the altitude per fine print would be less applicable for the EcoBoost and should not to need the derating. They also don't specify if any of this is at regular or primium fuel (only premium goes in this vehicle) so has the higher performance timing the stock motor/ecu provides.

I have my vehicles for life, so don't worry about what I do with the vehicle to turn it into a "POS" as you put it as it will never see the market. But since I have them for life I put the time and money into them to take care of them and not damage them. For Reference the Ford Edge has a US tow capacity of 3,500lbs and the UK rating is 2000kg (4400lbs). So simply towing at or around capacity involves a huge number of things and does not mean it will distroy the vehicle... If done correctly. Thus my question.

Looking for recommendations like you should upgrade the brake pads to the Hawk LTS for towing, or get x for cooling, or get y for a tune, or z for what ever.

 

[Ironworker40]

Don't forget to add up the combined weight of your vehicle ,trailer, passengers, and cargo. You have a 10,400 lb limit. Also frontal area of trailer limit is 40 sq ft. If you have a 8 ft wide trailer and its 6 ft high thats 48 sq ft so your over the recommended limit and you have to derate the maximum trailer weight.
I have towed with everything from a 1976 Thunderbird to a double 28 ft tractor trailer. I owned a towing busness and drove tow trucks for ten years. I tow to Florida and South Dakota at least twice a year for the last 32 years with all types of vehicles and trailer combinations.
You can do what you want but I towed an empty 3000 lbs 8 1/2 ft x 16ft enclosed trailer with my Explorer 190 miles out of the Catskill Mountains in NY and I would not want to tow that at 5000 lbs with an Explorer. I never have been to Utah but I have been as far west as Wyoming and the Mountains out west are way bigger than the ones in NY. Good Luck

 

[KayGee]

You need to take the gross maximum combined vehicle weight rating and subtract from it the total weight of the tow vehicle plus any payload in vehicle and whatever is left is what you can actually tow. Most people suggest not trying to tow the full amount either and tend to shoot for 75-80%.

Just to get you started, the GCWR for 2018 Explorer Sport is 10,400 lbs according to ford brochure and the vehicle itself weighs right around 4900 lbs according to the internets. If you subtract the two, I think you'll see the 5000 lb tow rating is more or less a marketing gimmick as it's going to be hard to tow 5000 lbs if you have anything more than a driver in the explorer.

Looking for recommendations like you should upgrade the brake pads to the Hawk LTS for towing, or get x for cooling, or get y for a tune, or z for what ever.

My recommendation would be "z" - to do your darnedest not to injure/kill anyone. If you do, I recommend a very good lawyer or flee the country to somewhere with no extradition...

 

[Magus2727]

Thank you for the additional input. I am looking at a wedge nose aluminum enclosed trailer that's 20' to 24'. The total length then ends up at 25' to 28' feet in length.

For weight if the curb weight of the trailer is 2,500
Lbs and my car is around 2,200 once in its final configuration leaves a few hundred pounds to be. In trailer (wheels, fuel, and tool box and spare parts).

Total weight of the vehicle is 4, 900 so leaves 500 lbs for passanger and internal. People at 300 lbs leaves 200 lbs of luggage or other. So everything should be just within the published limits.

Depending on how much room and features I want to add for trailer weight. Granted as I go bigger it starts to weigh more and great I got more space but cant fill it with anything due to already at weight. The extra space will be a place to crash and sleep when on the road or at the track. Or to Put stuff from the vehicle in the trailer.

The wedge nose helps with the frontal area right? How do you calculate the frontal area of a wedge? I am guessing that there is some scale or angle ratio that you can use?

Mountains are high and get up to 9k feet. Salt Lake is at 4,200 feet ABSL. But most are reasonable incline and declines. 6-7% are the worst. Looking at the SAE J2807 there is a hill climb in AZ that they do in the middle of summer. Thus why I am looking at upgrading any cooling features to larger or addtional coolers. That trip would only be a 1-3 times a year. Most trips will be much more local and be less than a few hundred miles.

 

[Ironworker40]

I don't know what the formula would be to determine the frontal area on a v nose. The trailer I pulled with my explorer was also a v nose. I have owned many trailers, some v and some flat nose. I even had a deep v 24 ft snowmobile trailer. I will tell you that I got no better fuel milage with a v nose so I don't personally think it helps much. The only thing that helps is if the tow vehicle is larger than the trailer. Like a pickup with a cap or a full size van or a motorhome. The bigger the more air they cut for the trailer.
A e250 or e350 van would be ideal for you. Lots of room to hang out in or sleep in. The tow great. Just my opinion. Have fun

 

[KayGee]

Only way to know for sure is to get everything on a scale and see what you are really dealing with.

The 4900 weight was from the internet and didn't specify if it was dry or wet or with what options. My thoughts are dry and no options, so you may find yourself at or even above the GCWR if your vehicle weighs more and you have to account for a full tank of fuel.

I have a 3000lb utility trailer and it's fine on short trips around town, but not something I would enjoy pulling on the highway for any distance with a full load.

 

[VCFP153]

I have a 2018 Sport, so comes with the tow package. Are there any other upgrades people would recommend when towing a closer to max capacity? Another extra trans cooler? Larger oil cooler? Different intercooler? Other performance mods? Different hitch than the class 3 from Ford?

Thank you for any and all towing input you can provide.

You're not going to like my input, but here it is anyway. Keep in mind that at the end of the day our vehicles are basically high-sitting Taurus wagons. There's not much that can be done about that. Now, I myself, when it comes to things like towing, prefer overkill. If I'm towing 5,000lb, the vehicle better be rated for close to 8,000 or so. At that's at sea level.

By the time you load up your Sport with 7 people with a little gear, it's going to be well over 5,000lbs itself. Then you got that 5,000lb trailer. Maybe I'm just overly conservative, but the Explorer just doesn't strike me as 10,000+lbs GCVWR material, and I have a PIU.

You got plenty of dry, rust free F250s in Utah. Grab one of them and tow 10,000lbs without blinking.

 

[peterk9]

You're not going to like my input, but here it is anyway. Keep in mind that at the end of the day our vehicles are basically high-sitting Taurus wagons. There's not much that can be done about that. Now, I myself, when it comes to things like towing, prefer overkill. If I'm towing 5,000lb, the vehicle better be rated for close to 8,000 or so. At that's at sea level.

In my Internet search on how towing capacities are established, I came across a post that said it is a good idea to only load to 80% of the stated towing capacity.

Peter

 

[KayGee]

By the time you load up your Sport with 7 people with a little gear, it's going to be well over 5,000lbs itself.

The vehicle itself is basically 5000 lbs. If you load it up with 7 people and a little gear, it's probably going to be north of 6000 lbs. GVWR is ~6,200 pounds, so if it's fully loaded to GVWR, the towing capacity is basically 0 as the tongue weight would put you over the GVWR.

Maybe I'm just overly conservative, but the Explorer just doesn't strike me as 10,000+lbs GCVWR material, and I have a PIU.

But it is. Both retail and PIU are actually rated at 10,400 GCWR.

 

[Magus2727]

Due to FORD having been required to complete the SAE J2807 testing to validate the 5,000 lb requirement I would think any buffers are already in place. (its a fun read for those who want to read what all they do SAE J2807 Tow Tests - The Standard).

I have no problem going 55MPH on the freeway. The 80% might be for those trying to keep up with the sport compacts up hill climbs? not sure. Seems like all the issues with towing and seeing ratings vs US vs UK vs Europe vs world is in the US we expect to still tow our Giant 35 foot tow hauler 5th wheel and a 30 foot boat behind a truck and still go 80MPH across Montana.

Max vehicle is GVRW is 6200 lbs yes, 1,000 lbs is a lot of weight to put in the car. Unless your moving bags of concrete or bricks from your favorit improvement store.

I weigh in around 150, wife wont let me say what she weighs but we have small kids also so between us as people and our crap in the car we would be less than 400-450 lbs of added weight in the explorer. 4900+450 = 5350 lbs. 5350 - 10400 = 5,050. So as long as I dot get to fat over the holidays we have 50-100 lb wiggle room.

I am looking at the Tekonsha 90195 P3 brake controler as its rated as one of the best to use. The trailer I am looking at would have tandum 5200# Torsion style axles and positioned in a way to level the trailer quite nicely to not have much toung weight. Also looking at options on what is the best weight distributed Hitch is for the Explorer. My mechanical knowledge is tellign me it likely would play some role due to how the Class 3 hitch is bolted into the body on the style of the WDH. Not sure, thoughts? going with a rod style vs a bar style? also would get a sway brake option on the WDH does this act weird with the sway control on the vehcile when you also have a sway brake?

 

[KayGee]

I don't think you fully grasp some of this. If you want to tow at the limit, you need to weigh your stuff and tally it up - you can't just assume/guess and hope for the best.

If you get your vehicle on a scale, I bet it is going to be more like 5000-5100 pounds wet which just blew your wiggle room.

What if your race car weighs more than 2200 lbs? Maybe just me, but that seems light for a focus. A buddy of mine had an early 00s focus he raced that was pretty stripped with a cage and IIRC, it was over 2200 just for the vehicle, not including any spares/tires. The newer one he has now is even heavier. If you add a few extra pounds for spares/tires, you will easily be over GCWR.

GCWR: 5050 exp+450 cargo+2500 trailer+2500 race car/spares= 10500 (right at or just over your max GCWR depending on exact weights)
GVWR: 5050 exp+450 cargo+~500 tongue weight= 6000 (pretty close the your max GVWR of 6200 - 1,000 lbs is NOT a lot of weight to add when trailering and it doesn't need to be bags of concrete or bricks from your favorite improvement store)

Sorry to sound like a broken record, but you need to actually weigh your stuff and not guess/assume.

 

[Magus2727]

^^^ And I will when things are complete.
Focus weighed in at 2,417 lbs with me in the car and 1/2 tank of fuel. However this is not the final configuration of my car. It still had full injterior. That has since been striped and will get a roll cage (adding back some weight). The final weight of the car will be based off dyno numbers so I can fine tune both power and/weight to get right where I want for NASA ST4 or TTD class.

The trailer has not be bought yet, I am researching and asking questions and looking at things. Next time I am at the track I will get the corner weights on the Explorer and see what it really is. Base curb weight is 4901 lbs. This is based of all standard options and a full tank of fuel. (per wiki the EPA requires the base curb weight to include fuel).

I will have hard numbers when it comes time to tow and it will be very close to the 10,400 lbs total GCVW and 5,000 tow weight. That is why I am asking mods or upgrades to the vehicle. So far no suggestions have been provided.

Stock coolers good for this all day long? Per the testing it would indicate so. Have people. Upgraded them anyway? Do you run a differnt oil or just change it more often? Do you add a transmission temp Guage or extra cooler?

 

[KayGee]

Base curb weight is 4901 lbs. This is based of all standard options and a full tank of fuel. (per wiki the EPA requires the base curb weight to include fuel).

Why rely on wikis when we can go right to the CFR (40 CFR 86.1803-01 - Definitions and 40 CFR 86.1832-01 - Optional equipment and air conditioning for test vehicles.) Definition is "Curb weight means the actual or the manufacturer's estimated weight of the vehicle in operational status with all standard equipment, and weight of fuel at nominal tank capacity..." Note the word "estimated". I think the highest actual weight I saw was with 401A and moonroof, but when you want to play around at the limits, you have to confirm weight, not assume.

I will have hard numbers when it comes time to tow and it will be very close to the 10,400 lbs total GCVW and 5,000 tow weight. That is why I am asking mods or upgrades to the vehicle. So far no suggestions have been provided.

Stock coolers good for this all day long? Per the testing it would indicate so. Have people. Upgraded them anyway? Do you run a differnt oil or just change it more often? Do you add a transmission temp Guage or extra cooler?

Conventional wisdom is to spec/purchase your trailer first and then spec/purchase a vehicle that can tow it (and leave yourself some margin for error as peter said, many like to use the 80% rule). Anyway, according to Ford, you are good to go up to the numbers they provided. I'm sure you can find more than a few people that will recommend royal purple or similar oil and trans fluid, probably even a larger cooler as I'm sure your trans temps are going to be high. But, you have a 2018 vehicle under warranty. Why would you want to change something and risk a potential warranty issue? I would probably just weigh the vehicle and trailer periodically and keep the receipts to prove I was within the limits in case something ever happened to the vehicle. You can add a gauge or just get trans temp info from scan tools/scan tool apps and a bluetooth OBD dongle.

 

[peterk9]

I don't think you fully grasp some of this. If you want to tow at the limit, you need to weigh your stuff and tally it up - you can't just assume/guess and hope for the best.

If you get your vehicle on a scale, I bet it is going to be more like 5000-5100 pounds wet which just blew your wiggle room..........................

I regularly take yard waste to the local recycling depot and have to go over the scales each time. The reading is usually 2380 kg which is 5246 lbs. If you subtract my weight (approx. 246) that brings it to 5000 lbs and I doubt the load comes to more than 20 - 30 lbs or so. Each time I have had more than 1/2 a tank of gas.

Peter