two solenoids

[damnford]

why are there two of them? wouldn't it be easier if it was one or the other? i go to order a new one and they give me the one on the fender well, said the other one was nonreplaceable. i took my old starter apart and cleaned the crap out of it it is clean now but the brushes are worn, i can buy a rebuild kit for that but they want 55 to 60 bucks for the solenoid. how would i test this solenoid short of putting it on and applying power?

 

[BrooklynBay]

The part on the inner fender side is called a starter relay. The one on the starter is called the starter solenoid. The relay sends 12 volts from the battery terminals to the starter solenoid to throw out the gear.

 

[jmdirk]

The relay is what sends power to the starter assembly, both the motor and the solenoid. The solenoid is there to make the spur gear in the starter engage with the flywheel.

Usually it the starter motor that goes, not the solenoid, but it's not unheard of. Doesn't the starter spin when you crank it? Or do you just hear a click? the click is usually the solenoid. you can take the whole starter out, secure it on a bench and apply 12V to it. (Ground the case and apply 12V to where the heavy gauge wire attaches). You should hear the starter click and the motor should spin which kicks the small gear inside forward. If you hear only a click, the solenoid should be fine, but it may not kick the gear forward much as some of that relies on the rotation of the motor to bring it forward.

 

[BrooklynBay]

A couple of years ago I had an intermittent issue with the starter not turning. I thought that it was the starter or the ignition switch. It turned out that it was the starter relay. You could verify this with a test light. Connect the test light to the starter relay then try to start it. If you don't hear anything from the starter, and don't see the test light illuminating, then it means that no voltage is present at the output terminal of the starter relay. Now connect the test light to the angle boot connector which is on the coil, and try to crank it. If you see that the test light is illuminated, then you know that the ignition switch is good, and the starter relay is defective. The auto parts store sells a starter jumper switch with alligator test clips to test the starter relay if you want to test everything while you're working under the hood.

 

[Roadrunner777]

Why two relays? I don't know why now, but back in the day, some Fords had a starter that didn't have a solenoid attached. The gear was engaged by the magnetic pull of the motor windings. It was kind of elegant really, just one connection to the starter, and there wasn't a solenoid hanging off the starter itself. I will tell you one benefit though... doing it this way means you don't have a hot battery lead going to the starter all the time. So, maybe that's better if you are going over rocks or something, it's better not to have a big constantly hot cable running under the engine?

 

[damnford]

so the upper one turns the motor and the one on the starter kicks the gear out to engage the flywheel? is it because it is a permanent magnet motor to try to save space? how does this motor work? i took mine all apart and cleaned the hell out of it and i think it works now the brush end was full of dirt and rust and the outside was covered with grease and i regreased the planet gears with high temp grease.

 

[BrooklynBay]

Think of the throw out gear as a clutch. You don't want it to be engaged full time like an alternator but only when it's necessary like an A/C compressor clutch. There are some vehicles which use an integrated alternator/starter motor combination. Those vehicles shut the engine off while idling, then restart the engine when you tap on the throttle pedal. This is when that starting set up turns the engine, then acts like an alternator to charge the battery. It saves fuel but is hard on batteries.

 

[roscoe 0202]

there is still a hot wire to the starter with two solenoids the big wire is hot at all times should go to the battery side of relay on fender the little wire makes the bottom solenoid function
roscoe