Oil leak leads to blown motor without warning

[blwnsmoke]

Yes, you got it. Ford wouldn’t think twice about screwing you.

Well I guess some have self respect and morals and others do not. And you are an EF Vendor? Interesting business practices.

 

[Mbrooks420]

Well I guess some have self respect and morals and others do not. And you are an EF Vendor? Interesting business practices.

I’ve got plenty of self respect. Find anyone the least bit dissatisfied with something I sold on the site and I’ll donate $1,000 to the forum.

 

[peelman]

I’ve got plenty of self respect. Find anyone the least bit dissatisfied with something I sold on the site and I’ll donate $1,000 to the forum.

You might just lie if someone would say that they were dissatisfied with whatever you sold on this site.

 

[Mbrooks420]

You might just lie if someone would say that they were dissatisfied with whatever you sold on this site.

Feel free to ask around for yourself. My work is solid, and everything sold is beyond guaranteed.

 

[Turdle]

Feel free to ask around for yourself. My work is solid, and everything sold is beyond guaranteed.

And if anyone can get one from Ford any way they can good on them.

 

[boominXplorer]

Hell if it were me I'd clean up the mess, install a new filter and top it off with some used oil out of one of my other cars so nothing looks suspicious. Then drive the knocker right into the service lane clueless as to why it's making the noise.

Is it right? No it's not but if I was paying a $600+ a month payment for something I wouldn't want to pay to 6-8k to fix it either. I've worked for a dealer long enough to know most customers get screwed one way or another, I wouldn't loose a bit of sleep.

 

[RhinoQuartz]

Well I guess some have self respect and morals and others do not. And you are an EF Vendor? Interesting business practices.

What do morals and self respect have to do with anything?

Ford will do anything they can to get out paying for repairs or making customers whole - see the stickied threads above - water pump failure, CO leaks etc etc. And dealers will bend you over backwards in one way or another.

Fair enough if you wouldn't want to do that, but it's naive to think that acting so is a 2 way street.

 

[VCFP153]

Ford will do anything they can to get out paying for repairs or making customers whole - see the stickied threads above - water pump failure, CO leaks etc etc. And dealers will bend you over backwards in one way or another.

I don't know that I'd put it quite that categorically. In my 27 years of owning Ford products, there has only been one case where they behaved less than admirably, and even then it wasn't a clear-cut case. Dealers have been great.

 

[jade97]

Note that the oil light is for low pressure, not low oil level. If you have low pressure & it's not an oil pump issue, you are most likely out of oil by that time.

 

[RhinoQuartz]

I don't know that I'd put it quite that categorically. In my 27 years of owning Ford products, there has only been one case where they behaved less than admirably, and even then it wasn't a clear-cut case. Dealers have been great.

Fair point, that was hyperbolic now that I think about it. I wouldn't say its TOO far off point, and it's not like most companies wouldn't do the same, but credit where credits due, they wouldn't be the most profitable of the big 3 if they weren't doing something right. I've not been overly impressed with their dealers so far, but then again my experience pales in comparison to yours, so sample size is pretty small.

 

[Drewmcg]

I tell my sons 'till I'm blue in the face they've got to *manually* check the oil every few weeks. That's what dipsticks are for.

I have to fault Costco (where I buy gas) a little, too. They don't have windshield washer squeegees in order to speed up the line. I have the feeling that if customers have the audacity to lift their hoods to check their oil level--they'll get honked at!

Can't estimate how many people I've known or heard about that are shocked when they discover that their oil level is low and that oil life monitor message says that they still have 50% life (or whatever) left on their oil. They can't seem to get it into their heads that the level is independent of the "life". Lots of engines burn too much oil (or, like OP, have gone through faulty oil changes).

End of rant.

 

[Drewmcg]

Could be. I was at highway speeds and had to pass some folks at higher RPMs. Can't remember if that occurred right before failure or not though.

The "rule" is if you see the oil light, its BAD and you should pull over (coast) to the shoulder NOW.

 

[JAPeterson]

I believe that even in the manual it advises you to check your oil weekly or at least every couple of weeks.

If I have a trip coming up I always will check the oil level when I fill the windshield washer reservoir. But there are those out there that have no idea how to do either of those. Not to mention checking air pressure in the tires.

 

[Drewmcg]

. . . Lack of oil alone didn't cause the failure, it's when you drive it with low oil pressure that causes the failure. And if warning lamps are meant to warn you in advance for the very purpose of avoiding these types of things, then they should do so.

Lack of oil pressure due to lack of oil=engine failure due to lack of oil. Your logic is like saying crops didn't fail due to lack of rain, but due to lack of water. Same difference if there's no alternative to hydrating the crops (like irrigation).

The problem here (insofar as we know) is not with Ford or its engineers -- but with your expectation about the oil pressure warning lamp. To your credit, you are asking whether that expectation is reasonable. It is not, and here's why (as others have answered).

Engine is designed/required to have a certain oil pressure at given RPM to achieve necessary lubricity to avoid undue friction/heat/metal wear/failure.Oil pressure sensor is a very cheap (probably less than $3 cost to Ford, as a guess) part that's been around in its basic form for many years, and performs well. It is calibrated for the engine oil channel that its threaded into to trigger a contact that grounds a single wire plugged into the ECM when a certain, range of "normal" oil pressure is achieved. If the engine is on and the pressure falls outside of that range, then either that switch does not (or does, depending on the design) trigger, causing the oil warning lamp to light.

It is normal (and acceptable) for oil pressure to be lower at lower RPMs; and higher at higher RPMs. So the light cannot trigger at the low end of the range without generating a lot of false positives. Unfortunately, if you're traveling at highway speeds (and higher RPMs), the oil light won't come on until your pressure falls below the low end of the range--when in fact the proper pressure would be closer to the high end of the range.

So instead of "warn[ing] you in advance" (your words), i.e., predicting, that your oil pressure is going to fall too low, the idiot light (at least @ high RPMs) is more of a delayed response.

You might respond: "Well, why don't they come up with a more sophisticated system to predict low oil pressure?" In a word, because its not cost-effective to do so. Imagine the cost of installing an elaborate, electronic, algorithm-driven system on hundreds of thousands of new cars, at, say $50 per car. Compare that to the cost (zero) of using the current system and having people do what they have done for a hundred years: check the oil level with a $1 dip stick, with a $3 idiot light as a last line of defense, and to not put a cracked filter (how could you crack an oil filter, anyway? nevermind) on @ regular oil change!

I would argue that the last time they came up with an algorithmic, computer-involved oil monitoring system (the oil life monitor), it actually caused more premature engine failures--because tens of thousands of customers (wrongly) thought it was somehow telling them something that it wasn't about the oil level, instead--so they checked their oil level manually less! In the case of the early Chevy Equinox/GMC Terrain engines that burned absurd amounts of oil, that combo caused lots of engine failures. So much for progress!

 

[ChadR_07]

The "rule" is if you see the oil light, its BAD and you should pull over (coast) to the shoulder NOW.

Totally agree @Drewmcg. But in my case, it went into limp mode (loss of power), started knocking, (I then immediately let off the gas and pulled over), during the pull over, the oil light flashed briefly...in that order.

 

[ChadR_07]

I believe that even in the manual it advises you to check your oil weekly or at least every couple of weeks.

If I have a trip coming up I always will check the oil level when I fill the windshield washer reservoir. But there are those out there that have no idea how to do either of those. Not to mention checking air pressure in the tires.

I totally agree @JAPeterson, I did all of those and more (replaced air filter, topped off coolant tank and brake fluid). This loss happened during a long stretch of driving (12 hour drive).

 

[613GT500]

This thread has become quite interesting

Not going to lie, I would also cover the mistake and bring it back to Ford demand a fix via warranty for selling me a POS!

 

[Mutineer]

Having been through a warranty issue both as a customer and as a Mechanic at Ford, I can tell you that Ford will not cover this and rightly so. I agree with many of the reasons stated above, on both sides.

That oil light ONLY comes on if there is a lack of oil pressure. by then its too damn late. Damage is done.

Probably the reason it went into "Limp mode" is because the oil pressure runs the timing actuators that adjust the Cam timing on the fly, and some have even got Timing Chain Tensioners that run on Oil Pressure. So that "Limp mode" was your engine falling out of time, and I would not be surprised if there is extensive damage caused by this. Then it died.

First they'll have you pay to have me teardown the engine partly to check wear and clearances, or heat damage, or scoring on bearings and oil pump. Then if that goes your way, you'll have to pay for me to tear it down a little more, and then again. By the time they say they'll cover it (if they do) you've spent 1000 bucks just getting it checked out.

By then they will have found the damage to the Main Bearings and the cam lobes from lack of oil pressure at high RPM (even for a few seconds, we will know!) if not a bent valve or broken chain tensioner, and the slightest imperfection will kill your case.

I agree that to get one over on Ford would be gratifying. There's a reason I don't work for dealerships anymore.

If you think you can do it I say go for it. Just dont be dissapointed when it doesn't work.

 

[VCFP153]

L
You might respond: "Well, why don't they come up with a more sophisticated system to predict low oil pressure?" In a word, because its not cost-effective to do so. Imagine the cost of installing an elaborate, electronic, algorithm-driven system on hundreds of thousands of new cars, at, say $50 per car. Compare that to the cost (zero) of using the current system and having people do what they have done for a hundred years: check the oil level with a $1 dip stick, with a $3 idiot light as a last line of defense, and to not put a cracked filter (how could you crack an oil filter, anyway? nevermind) on @ regular oil change!

I would argue that the last time they came up with an algorithmic, computer-involved oil monitoring system (the oil life monitor), it actually caused more premature engine failures--because tens of thousands of customers (wrongly) thought it was somehow telling them something that it wasn't about the oil level, instead--so they checked their oil level manually less! In the case of the early Chevy Equinox/GMC Terrain engines that burned absurd amounts of oil, that combo caused lots of engine failures. So much for progress!

I would argue they could just use an oil pressure gauge. Like my '96 Explorer had nearly a quarter of a century ago. No need to predict anything, just real-time readout.

 

[Drewmcg]

Except that the "gauge" you reference wasn't really a gauge at all. It was a one-wire system like the one I described. If the pressure was in range, it pegged the guage in the middle of the dial. If not, it shows zero and the red light came on (NB, this assumes it was the same as my '97 Explorer). That was dumb and I'm glad they got rid of it. They probably moved to it to avoid concerns by customers about the needle jumping around.

I think the best fix would be if a manufacturer of luxury German cars developed a reliable system to trigger a dashboard amber warning "check oil" light, to illuminate at next startup, if the oil level measured 5 minutes after engine shutoff is below a certain level. After a few years the system could migrate to more mainstream vehicles (assuming internal combustion engines are still around). I vote for BMW, since their engines are reputed to burn a lot of oil!