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Car Service, ESP to rescue!

DeLeSaAZ

Beasley, the chauffeur of my previous Edge.
Joined
December 18, 2016
Messages
125
Reaction score
15
Location
Phoenix AZ Metro Area
City, State
Queen Creek, AZ
Year, Model & Trim Level
2016 Explorer Limited
I recently took my car into the dealer for regular maintenance (oil change, etc) and to have a door seal replaced that my dog tore up getting out of the car and to have that exhaust service done there was a bulletin about (not a recall).

San Tan Ford called me the next day (I did a night-drop) and said I had both an oil AND transmission fluid leak and they would have to drop the transmission to fix (either one or the other or both), and that it would take a week to fix. They offered to set up a rental (is that normal? A rental instead of a loaner?) but I'm on Disability and rarely drive (10k miles in 2.5 years!) so I didn't need a replacement - and said that both leaks would be covered by my ESP (that's why I buy them - ONLINE - with the big discount!). They also said they wouldn't charge me labor on the door seal replacement AND they'd replace the battery in my remote for free (BONUS!).

One week later, I got the car back. For "The Works" oil change package and door seal, I paid about $225 or so - all the rest was covered (the exhaust thing by Ford, the leak repairs by ESP).

Aside from the obviously new door seal, the only difference I noticed was a Sync update (it leaves the driver's side seat on A/C when I start the car - even if I hadn't used it before)

So, 2 questions. How can I have an oil and transmission fluid leak without noticing such a thing? My car is parked in my driveway for maybe 5 days of the week without moving - and there are no fluid-leak stains on the driveway. Second question is, how exactly does an ESP work at the dealer? I'm not doubting there were leaks (even though I never noticed them) - I'm just curious exactly how the dealer is reimbursed. Does the Ford ESP pay the dealer - or do they eat the repair? If they have to eat the cost, I wouldn't think they'd want to voluntarily fix something that I didn't mention - so they must get paid for their labor by the ESP (or Ford)? Actually, 3 questions - not that I'm complaining, but why would they offer to install the door seal and remote battery for no labor charge?
 



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Works just like a regular warranty repair. Ford pays them for it. Unless you have 1st day rental coverage, you automatically get a rental the next day for free for up to 10 days paid by Ford.
 






I doubt that it takes much time to install a door seal. They could likely easily have buried any associated cost in the warranty work.
The A/C coming ON at startup doesn't sound right. Have you turned it OFF and then checked to see if it comes ON again at startup? If you have the Climate Control set to 'Auto' it could be coming ON due to the temperature.

Peter
 






So, 2 questions. How can I have an oil and transmission fluid leak without noticing such a thing? My car is parked in my driveway for maybe 5 days of the week without moving - and there are no fluid-leak stains on the driveway.

I had an oil leak that was repaired under warranty. The oil leak never made it to the garage floor. Instead it would seep down the engine, and then get dispersed / blown off while driving. The only way to see it was if you were under the car looking up.

Front Engine Cover Oil Leak on Explorer Sport

My suspicion is that many eXplorers have a similar leak, but the owners just have not noticed yet. A mechanic told me there are different types of metal that make up the engine (some steel, some aluminum) and they heat up at different rates. He thought that might be why they are seeing oil seepage on the engines.


As far as the dealer noticing it and repairing it that's great service. Maybe the service techs were not fully utilized that week and so they were looking for more work. The reimbursement rate from Ford is less than what they would charge you for out of warranty work (retail price) but if the techs were just sitting idle I'm sure they'd rather have something than nothing.
 






I had an oil leak that was repaired under warranty. The oil leak never made it to the garage floor. Instead it would seep down the engine, and then get dispersed / blown off while driving. The only way to see it was if you were under the car looking up.

Front Engine Cover Oil Leak on Explorer Sport

My suspicion is that many eXplorers have a similar leak, but the owners just have not noticed yet. A mechanic told me there are different types of metal that make up the engine (some steel, some aluminum) and they heat up at different rates. He thought that might be why they are seeing oil seepage on the engines.


As far as the dealer noticing it and repairing it that's great service. Maybe the service techs were not fully utilized that week and so they were looking for more work. The reimbursement rate from Ford is less than what they would charge you for out of warranty work (retail price) but if the techs were just sitting idle I'm sure they'd rather have something than nothing.

This depends on the dealership. My dealership gets paid same rate for warranty.
 






Thanks for all the replies, I just wondered how it all worked.

However, now the car needs to go back into the dealer (1 month later) for a REAL oil leak! As I said, I thought the oil/tranny fluid leaks they found were odd since there were no drips on the driveway. Well, I backed the car out last night - and had to run back inside for something I'd forgotten - and low and behold, there was a big circle of oil (diameter of a basketball) full of dead leaves/dirt blown into it - pile of muck!). I looked under the engine and the tail pipe (exhaust manifold?) was covered in oil. I did check the oil and honestly couldn't read the dipstick (5w oil is really thin, doesn't leave a visible line on the stick), but while driving I could certainly smell the burning oil.

I don't even have 200 miles on the car since it was last in, 5 weeks ago (I really don't drive it much) - so now I'm irritated...they had the car for an entire week for leaks I wasn't aware of, I get it back and now have a big oil stain on my driveway.

Aside from that, the steering felt really sluggish while driving, kept pulling to the left. It honestly felt like I had a flat tire (which I don't). Perhaps it's just my imagination, since after seeing the oil but things just felt off.

Guess it's a good thing I don't need the car much. I suppose it'll be in for another week now. *sigh* I'll update when I hear from service.
 






I doubt that it takes much time to install a door seal. They could likely easily have buried any associated cost in the warranty work.
The A/C coming ON at startup doesn't sound right. Have you turned it OFF and then checked to see if it comes ON again at startup? If you have the Climate Control set to 'Auto' it could be coming ON due to the temperature.

Peter

The drivers-side seat blower (A/C or heat) has never turned on at start-up before, regardless of prior setting (which really annoyed me because I wanted it to default to it's prior usage, like all other HVAC settings). Now, sometimes it's on, sometimes it's not. Quirky.
 






When they 'repaired' the oil leak the first time, what was the actual item they repaired?
 






Okay, got the car back today. I was told the leak from the first fix 5 weeks ago was a patch. Oil leak from ? (Doesn't clearly say), transmission fluid leak from transfer case (repaired, reinstalled).

When I took it back Tues night, I said it was leaking oil, didn't "drive/feel/sound" right, sluggish, and steering pulled to the left.

Repair slip says: installed power take off assembly; trans fluid leaking from right axle seal near PTU, removed right axle, PTU replaced (not repaired) and they did a toe alignment.

I don't really know what any of that means. I looked it up and both PTA and PTU seem to be VERY common problems with several Ford models. Looks like it would have cost around $3k but was covered "under warranty" - don't know if that means the original Powertrain or my ESP.

It does drive normally again. Thankfully I've got another 3.5 years on the ESP.
 






Probably covered under the 5yr/60k mile Powertrain Warranty. Glad to hear everything is working as it should.

Peter
 






I'm curious; what engine do you have in your 2016 Explorer, that is having the leakage issues?
 






I'm curious; what engine do you have in your 2016 Explorer, that is having the leakage issues?

Version/Series SEEF FORD SERIES
Plant of Manufacture AAGAD CHICAGO PLANT BUILD
Engine ENKX 3.5L Cyclone V6 Petrol TIVCT
Transmission TRWJ 6 Speed Auto Transmission 6F50 (IND=A)
Drive Type DR0F 4 WHL L/H FULL TIME DRIVE
 






When they 'repaired' the oil leak the first time, what was the actual item they repaired?

Sorry, took me a bit to get things together! From the actual repair slips from Ford:

FIRST TIME IN: (No leaks of any kind noticed by me)
Installed: Seal Assembly - Crankshaft Oil
Found Oil Dye coming from the left seam of the Front Cover. R&I both Valve Covers, Upper Intake and Front Cover. Reseal Front Cover, replace gaskets.
Transfer Case Leak Diagnosis: Leaking Transfer Case, Repaired and reinstalled Transfer Case

Transmission Fluid Leak: Found fluid leak at PTU right axle seal, remove right axle, remove/replace leaking axle seal, reassemble.

SECOND TIME IN: (Basketball-sized oil leak in driveway)
Installed: Power Take Off Assembly
Verify fluid leak from Right Axle Seal at PTU area, remove Right Axle, inspect Sealing Surface of PTU found Rough resulting in the Axle Seal, Remove PTU, Disassemble found signs of excessive heat, cost to repair exceeds cost to replace, install new PTU Assembly

So, on the second time in, the oil leak in my driveway must not have been Engine Oil, but oil from PTU? Was that true on the first time in, when I didn't notice any leaks? The slip from the first time says "Engine Has An Oil Leak" and also that "The Vehicle Is Leaking Transmission Fluid". But the 2nd repair slip doesn't say anything about Transmission Fluid, just Oil from PTU area. I'm stupid when it comes to engines. I vaguely understood how a plain V8 engine worked back in the 70s, before fuel injection and catalytic converters and computers...you know, back when we had Regular gas!!! I also don't know what the diff is between a PTU (which I watched YouTube videos about so I kind of get them) and a Power Take Off Assembly.
 






Ironically, I recently traded-in my top-of-the-line 2015 Ford Edge Sport only because it was on its 3rd oil pan and gasket replacement, which were causing major oil leaks beginning at 18K miles. This was/is a known problem with the 2.7L Turbocharged engines... because they have a PLASTIC oil pan! (Differing expansion and cooling rates, between the aluminum-block engine and the plastic oil pan seem to be the source of the problem, with no real fix or upgrade planned by Ford).

So, when I was considering buying my 2018 Explorer with the 3.5L engine you have, the first thing I did was get under the car to make sure it actually had a METAL oil pan... as there was no way I was going to endure having to make repeated repairs for the same ongoing leakage problem.
 






Ironically, I recently traded-in my top-of-the-line 2015 Ford Edge Sport only because it was on its 3rd oil pan and gasket replacement, which were causing major oil leaks beginning at 18K miles. This was/is a known problem with the 2.7L Turbocharged engines... because they have a PLASTIC oil pan! (Differing expansion and cooling rates, between the aluminum-block engine and the plastic oil pan seem to be the source of the problem, with no real fix or upgrade planned by Ford).

So, when I was considering buying my 2018 Explorer with the 3.5L engine you have, the first thing I did was get under the car to make sure it actually had a METAL oil pan... as there was no way I was going to endure having to make repeated repairs for the same ongoing leakage problem.

One would think that the engineers who design engines would understand contraction rates of different metals/alloys/materials. It's not something that I would ever think of - I'm not incredibly knowledgeable of such things - but just you saying it, it makes complete sense that contraction rates would be different. I would imagine even the same type of material holding a different type of fluid would behave differently. That would be in Mechanic's 101, wouldn't you think?

I have seen the PTU failure mentioned quite a bit, once I started researching - not only in my model/year, but in other Ford vehicles as well, 2x2 or 4x4, over many, many different years. But as I've also seen someone state, of the tens of thousands of cars that come off the line, the one's with reported issues are a minor fraction - which is true, I suppose. I just find it odd that within 5 weeks, my car was in twice for the exact same thing, for a total of 10 days! It's a good thing I don't drive much - I just despise driving our other car, a Scion tC...the floorboard of that car comes up to about the bottom lug-nut of the Explorer tire, my head is at the top of the Explorer's wheel well. I don't like driving laying down - plus I have a really bad back which is why I have a high vehicle to get in/out of! Funny thing is, the '06 Scion (bought brand new), has been in the shop less in 13+ years than my Explorer has in 2!

(I would never think of crawling under a car to see what parts are made of!! Maybe I should do that next purchase - just to make it seem like I know what I'm doing o_O )
 






Up until my EPAS issues that have now seemed to resolve themself, I have never worried about my previous Ex breaking down leaving me stranded. In fact, it never has in the 145,000 miles we put on it.

However, the amount of times it has been into the dealer for STUPID STUFF is amazing. Now, to be fair, I expected a little bit because of the 1st year of a new generation... but to have repeat issues pop up 70,000 miles later (like the shift to park or the Apillar rattle again on the highway) etc.

As my wife's daily driver, she still didn't want to get rid of it... and one of the main reasons we are getting the 2020. She just loves the vehicle. I think if we had to pay out of pocket for all the stuff, we would have sold it a long time ago.

But the fact that we drop it off, leave with a rental, put the mileage on a rental and swap when it is fixed with nothing more then a deductible made it a much easier pill to swallow. I will be getting a 8yr/150k ESP on the 2020 just for that reason (again, 1st year of a new gen). I would have waited a year but the warranty would have been up in 5 months on our 2011 and wasn't gambling on that.
 






ESP is a must after factory warranty is up!
 






I agree... the dealer would have charged me over $1,500 for each of the TWO repair visits for the same leaking plastic oil pan on my now-gone 2015 Edge Sport... plus, I got a huge chunk of my money back on that ESP plan... which I then rolled-over to purchase another new plan for my 2018 Explorer. That worked out well for me!
 






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