Is this body mount ok?

[eddiev8NZ]

Hi all

I've been trying to track down this issue with my 2005 Explorer. Its hard to explain but it kind of shudders through the whole car when I hit multiple bumps in the road. Seems to handle single bumps ok, reasonably smooth.

Anyway, I replaced all 4 struts, which made the problem much more pronounced. I have reverted back to the old struts.

All the other joints and bushes seem ok, but when I was under there I looked at the body mounts, and they seem a little worse for wear. Does anyone know if body mounts effect the ride in the cabin over bumps, and if they would lose their effectiveness when they start looking like this? I am not sure if this is cosmetic, or indicative of failure throughout the mount. Should I poke it with something? How soft should they be?

Any thoughts would be much appreciated

Thanks guys

 

[shucker1]

That one does not look bad to me.

Washers are intact and the rubber has not disintegrated.

How about the rest of the mounts?

 

[domct203]

Agreed, that mount looks fine.

FYI- the body mount bolts are a major PITA to remove, especially trying to hold the threaded part from spinning. I had one bolt break in the mount when doing my body lift. If that is the worse of the 10 body mounts I would move on from them and look elsewhere.

Have you positively eliminated all ball joints front and rear? How about wheel bearings?

Do you feel this ‘shudder’ in the steering wheel, or just in the seat/body?

 

[974X4BLACKSPORT]

Rubber body mounts deteriorate with age, even if they look "ok", the rubber is not the same as it was when new. I have changed body bushings on various vehicles before even though the originals looked ok, the ride on the old ones was horrible, but with the new ones in place, NVH is reduced!

 

[swshawaii]

^ Agree. OP's top bushing appears to be the orange colored MCU foam commonly used on 2001-03 two door Sports and 2001-05 Sport Tracs. If you look at the pics linked below, the foam tends to compress and shrink with time causing issues. I'm confused because I thought 2002-05 four doors used only rubber body mounts in all ten locations. New Zealand model?
Body Mount Shrinkage and Compression

Dorman aftermarket rubber replacements are the only non OE mounts available. Have not seen Prothane or Daystar polyurethane kits for the 2002-05 Gen 3.
2005 FORD EXPLORER 4.0L V6 Body Mount | RockAuto

 

[mountaineer2004]

That's something else I need to do but probably won't.
Sounds like a big job for minimal benefit (to me).

 

[974X4BLACKSPORT]

New body to frame mount bushings can make a huge improvement in the ride quality to an older vehicle.

 

[mountaineer2004]

True, but so can an extra seat cushion lol.

 

[eddiev8NZ]

Hi everything, thank you for all the replies and discussion! Sorry for the delay have been away for the weekend.

So from what I can tell, some think it looks fine, and others say they deteriorate over time anyway. I have checks the ball joints and wheel bearings, the only issue I could find was play in the rack ends which were replaced. The shudder does not seem to be in the steering wheel, more through the whole car.

The rest of the mounts are in similar or better condition. I poked a couple with my finger, and some seem to have a bit of give, whereas others are hard to indent with my finger. None actually disintegrated when I tried this so there must be some integrity there. Should they all be totally solid, is this "give" an indication the mount is going, going gone?

They do look like orange foam inside, and from what I have read if I do go ahead I would go for the same factory rubber ones rather than the harder type. This car I think made its way to NZ via Japan from North America.. It is a four door 4 x 4 Eddie Bauer V8.

As some have mentioned, its does seem a big job fraught with pitfalls so I would only want to take it on if I was confident they needed doing. I appreciate that new mounts should improve NVH but is this a mileage or age thing? The car has only done 72k miles....

Any other suggestions would be much appreciated. I only latched onto this as I read about the issues with the Sport trac mounts, I don't really see what else it can be, I have ruled out the shocks by changing them (which included all the hardware being the complete strut), I have replaced sway bar links and rack ends, which must just leave control arm bushes, wheel bearings and these mounts.....or am I missing something obvious?

 

[swshawaii]

Difficult to tell if the body mounts are OK without loosening them and checking for cab movement on the sheet metal. IF you plan on using OE Ford replacement mounts be prepared for sticker shock, especially in New Zealand. Linked dealer below has some of the lowest prices you will find on line. Also pretty sure the OE replacement mounts will be the same material. This is why I suggested the aftermarket Dorman rubber replacements. Although still expensive, they cost much less than the OE Ford mounts. Keep in mind the Ford parts are for individual upper or lower mounts, whereas Dorman includes the upper and lower with hardware. Good luck.

Use VIN for parts accuracy. Hopefully yours is a North America model.
Frame Components for 2005 Ford Explorer | Auto Nation Ford White Bear Lake

 

[eddiev8NZ]

Hi SWS, thank very much for that. Sorry my mistake I meant to say I would replace with rubber mounts rather than polyurethane to get the same ride as OEM mounts. Your right about the sticker shock, they were several hundred (each) from ford here in NZ. I looked up your link but unfortunately they don't ship internationally, shame seem like great prices. I can however get the Dorman rubber ones exported to NZ. Plus I like the idea of getting all the hardware as well, in case I have issues when removing the old ones and have to cut them out.

Couple questions, what do you mean checking for cab movement on the sheet metal? Does this mean when the rubber mount has deteriorated/compressed to the point where the metal sleeve inside is contacting the body metal? And if you were to change one, is it sensible to change just position 3 (the one in the photo), or replace the other side one to keep things level, or replace them all down one side, or replace all at the same time (ouch!)

Many thanks again

 

[swshawaii]

I'd be inclined to replace all the mounts at the same time to keep the mount heights consistent. 1/4" height variation between old and new is huge, and the difference between a tight or loose fit. Rubber also has the tendency to compress and retain memory over time. I replaced my "B" and "C" foam mounts directly below the cab with OE replacements in 2014. I was led to believe they were improved over the original foam material but they are showing signs of deterioration in less than five years. Haven't decided if I'll use aftermarket polyurethane or the rubber Dorman replacements when they start making noise.

"Cab movement" meaning there would be "witness marks" on the cab sheet metal if the cab was shifting due to lateral movement and wallowed holes from the mount sleeves. Problem is you would need to remove them all to check and probably wouldn't want to reuse the old mounts anyway. Sure hope body mounts are your shudder problem since you've ruled out almost everything else. I'm puzzled because I haven't read about body mount issues with 2002-05 four doors and wasn't aware Ford used orange foam mounts for Gen 3.

 

[eddiev8NZ]

Hi again SWS, thanks for the reply. I just priced up all the Dorman mounts from Rockauto, $818 US ouch! About $1250 NZ without delivery. However I think the local ford wanted about $400 just for one, so still much cheaper.
I am a but worried now that you have not heard of many problems with these mounts for my car, makes me think I'm barking up the wrong tree. I might need to go back to the control arm bushes but they seem pretty solid.
As you say, if you go to the trouble to pull the body mounts out to check you may as well replace them, but for that price I'm hesitant. I'll have another look and if I do decide to go ahead I post pictures of the mounts and what kind of shape they are in.

Thanks again for all your help

 

[swshawaii]

Take pics of all the mounts on one side. Curious to see how many are MCU foam (orange) vs. rubber (black).

May be hard to tell with the foam mounts. Ford sometimes coated them with a black rubberized material as seen in your pic.

 

[eddiev8NZ]

Right will do this weekend and post them up cheers

 

[eddiev8NZ]

hiya, sorry about the quality, didn't get to check them until I went to load them but for whats it worth here they all are...

 

[mountaineer2004]

They seem passable to me.
Would rusted bolts make the job insanely difficult?

 

[swshawaii]

Black rubber mounts appear OK. Fifth pic is a foam mount. What position on the frame is it? Is it the same one shown in your OP? Replacement can be difficult if you have severe corrosion issues. Easiest way to loosen the bolts is heating the bolt tips from below with a torch to soften the blue threadlock compound. Quite honestly I'd look elsewhere for your body "shudder" issues, but I'm not familiar with the four wheel fully independent suspension used on the 2002-05 Gen 3.

 

[eddiev8NZ]

Hi guys, thanks for the replies. yes the 5th one is the one in the OP. I think the 3rd and 4th photo (same mount) is also a foam one.
I was googling it yesterday and found a video where the guy was saying Ford went from rubber all around, to having foam on the cabin mounts due to better NVH. It appears thats whats happening here, the front one and rear two are rubber, and the two and three position ones under the cab are the foam. This could be why they look deteriorated and the rubber ones seem ok. I can't get back under there until the weekend, but I want to confirm that. I do remember the foam one had a lot more "give" to my finger poking than some of the others.
If true, the Dorman mounts are rubber, so it would seem even if I were to replace position 2 and 3 the ride might not be as good as the foam ones (unless of course the foam are worn out)
Also, while I was under there I got the missus to stand on the step and bounce up and down. The offending foam one had quite a bit of movement in it. I am not sure if this is normal, and I didn't think to check how much movement there was in the rubber ones. Anyone interested if I try and take a video of it for opinions on whether the movement is expected of the mount, or whether it is an indication its ability to absorb shock and vibration has gone?

Thanks again

 

[domct203]

If you decide to change them, be prepared for a fight. As soon as you crack them loose the threaded bottom retainer washer begins to turn, even when using heat. You need a helper and various ways to hold them. If you have a welder, tack on a bar of steel to stop them from turning.

I used vise grips, chisels, steel wedges, etc to wedge the retainers against the frame mounts. On some I used a Dremel to grind notches into them for a better grip. Generous amount of penetrating oil and heat are a must.

The first body mount bolt took us 80 minutes to get out. We almost gave up. There is a link in my signature to the body lift thread and my install. There are a lot of great tips in that thread to dealing with removing the body mounts. The front passenger mount bolt broke, we had to grind the head off to get it out.

Good luck!

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