2004 ford explorer camber/caster issue

[Brian Carter]

Hello all! I have a little problem. I took my 2004 ford explorer 4.6L v8 AWD to get an alignment m, but they can't do it because they need to install a caster/camber kit. They want to charge over 300 dollars and I don't want to pay that. So I googled how to do it and I couldn't find anything with the upper control arms I have (see pictures). If anyone has any idea how to install a kit, I would greatly appreciate an answer. Thanks in advance.

 

[Brian Carter]

Hello all! I have a little problem. I took my 2004 ford explorer 4.6L v8 AWD to get an alignment m, but they can't do it because they need to install a caster/camber kit. They want to charge over 300 dollars and I don't want to pay that. So I googled how to do it and I couldn't find anything with the upper control arms I have (see pictures). If anyone has any idea how to install a kit, I would greatly appreciate an answer. Thanks in advance.

View attachment 171310

Ok, I'm pretty sure i got the part I need(see image). Next question is how are these installed? I know the go on the upper control arm, but how? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[TechGuru]

Recently had to go though this myself.

Best to buy them from RockAuto, everyone else way over charges for them.

Remove these:

Install these:

Here:

Once I installed them I took it to Ford for the alignment. They were actually the cheapest. $77.53 total.

 

[Brian Carter]

I bought them on amazon. I need it fast. Do you know exactly how they are installed?

 

[TechGuru]

I bought them on amazon. I need it fast. Do you know exactly how they are installed?

See my images above and take a look at this Ford service manual on alignment.

The very first section covers where it goes.

 

[Brian Carter]

Sorry, I didn't see the images you posted until now. Phone is running slow. Thank you, really appreciate it! Just saved me 250 dollars.

 

[kydirtscooter]

Are your caster numbers so far off with the original washers that they can't get the caster in spec?

 

[TechGuru]

Are your caster numbers so far off with the original washers that they can't get the caster in spec?

The original shims (not washers) are fixed and non-adjustable...

You can see the imprint of the space you have to move them once they're removed.

 

[Brian Carter]

Yeah, I saw that. It just amazes me how bad a shop will try to RIP you off. They wanted to charge me almost 400 to do the job plus alignment. So I just ordered then from amazon for 67 dollars for two boxes. It will take me 10 minutes to do each side. Appreciate the help.

 

[Brian Carter]

Are your caster numbers so far off with the original washers that they can't get the caster in spec?

I had to replace one of the upper control arms.

 

[TechGuru]

Yeah, I saw that. It just amazes me how bad a shop will try to RIP you off. They wanted to charge me almost 400 to do the job plus alignment. So I just ordered then from amazon for 67 dollars for two boxes. It will take me 10 minutes to do each side. Appreciate the help.

Would of been about $24 at RockAuto for two boxes...I got mine in 2 days but they shipped in-state from Sugarland TX

Looks like they went up since I bought mine, I got a really good deal.

 

[Brian Carter]

Would of been about $24 at RockAuto for two boxes...I got mine in 2 days but they shipped in-state from Sugarland TX

I honestly didn't even think about it.

 

[kydirtscooter]

I have had these apart many times, I know about the factory shims and their fixed caster specs. What I am curious about is how close or far the actual caster numbers are to being in spec without using an adjustable cam.

I have not had to use anything to get caster in spec which is why I am curious. We always get a readout before and after of camber, caster, toe, and thrust angle. Never been out of spec, that is why I ask.

 

[TechGuru]

I have had these apart many times, I know about the factory shims and their fixed caster specs. What I am curious about is how close or far the actual caster numbers are to being in spec without using an adjustable cam.

I have not had to use anything to get caster in spec which is why I am curious. We always get a readout before and after of camber, caster, toe, and thrust angle. Never been out of spec, that is why I ask.

The cams don't actually add any adjustment, they just allow for fine tuning instead of moving it around in the slot without a shim. There actually is a ford tool to fine adjust it without these cams. BUT EVERY SHOP WILL TRY TO SCAM YOU, so it's best to just install them so no one can make excuses. I brought that ford service manual with me (the PDF I posted) and tried to get a Midas to do it the Ford way of just removing the shims and replacing them with washers and just slide it around to adjust it and they wanted to charge me $75 per side to install f****** washers! and they said it would slip without the cams so they would not honor a warranty.

 

[Brian Carter]

I have no idea how far out of spec they are. I'm learning as I go. I had to do my inner tie rods, both lower ball joints, and one upper control arm. The other one looked good with no play. I'm no mechanic, but I would rather learn and do it myself instead of getting robbed. So please be patient with me as I am new to all of this.

 

[kydirtscooter]

The cams don't actually add any adjustment, they just allow for fine tuning instead of moving it around in the slot without a shim. There actually is a ford tool to fine adjust it without these cams. BUT EVERY SHOP WILL TRY TO SCAM YOU, so it's best to just install them so no one can make excuses. I brought that ford service manual with me (the PDF I posted) and tried to get a Midas to do it the Ford way of just removing the shims and replacing them with washers and just slide it around to adjust it and they wanted to charge me $75 per side to install f****** washers! and they said it would slip without the cams so they would not honor a warranty.

Do these not rotate in the base allowing adjustment? I guess maybe they work different than the ones I have used on Super Duty trucks that you rotate the hex to change alignment. Of course those are top ball jt sleeve but.

These looked to me like the hex rotated and being the bore is offset would change control arm placement and therefore alignment. The factory give you a small range of "adjustment."

If these do not rotate and adjust, I gues I am confused on their purpose unless you lost the original shims...?

 

[kydirtscooter]

I have no idea how far out of spec they are. I'm learning as I go. I had to do my inner tie rods, both lower ball joints, and one upper control arm. The other one looked good with no play. I'm no mechanic, but I would rather learn and do it myself instead of getting robbed. So please be patient with me as I am new to all of this.

No problem, was just surprised to see anything mentioned on the matter since I can laser align all 4 in factory spec with good suspension and steering components sans fancy shims.

Only really seem to have issues with Super Duties and have to change upper ball jt cam occasionally since factory sleeve can get damaged.

 

[kydirtscooter]

The original shims (not washers) are fixed and non-adjustable...

You can see the imprint of the space you have to move them once they're removed.

Typing too fast, yes they are not washers. Replying to a few threads and was talking shims/washers on something else too and flipped words.

 

[TechGuru]

Do these not rotate in the base allowing adjustment? I guess maybe they work different than the ones I have used on Super Duty trucks that you rotate the hex to change alignment. Of course those are top ball jt sleeve but.

These looked to me like the hex rotated and being the bore is offset would change control arm placement and therefore alignment. The factory give you a small range of "adjustment."

If these do not rotate and adjust, I gues I am confused on their purpose unless you lost the original shims...?

Yes they rotate to allow fine adjustment within the factory adjustment slot. They're technically not needed to adjust within the factory slot without shims its just most shops wont do that and will require these before they will adjust it because they're lazy.

 

[kydirtscooter]

Thats what they looked like, and yes 99% of shops are beyond lazy these days. A lot do just toe and go not even caring you can actually tweak quite a bit with these. Just small ranges of movement.

The last alignment I farmed out (customer truck), too busy. Asked for caster correction, center steering wheel and toe. I intentionally set toe in, drag link offset. I marked the fasteners with cross check plus and asked for print outs. Vehicle was picked up and guess what, no print out, only tie rod lock nuts and adj sleeve had been moved, drag link not touched. Needless to say that "alignment" was free.