New Appreciation for 5th Gens - Newbie in the Market

[PotatoExplorer]

Hi 5th gen thread guys,

I know a lot of people hate these "What do I need to look out for X gen Explorer?" but I'm going to do it anyways and tell my story. If you can help answer one, a few, or all the questions I might have, I will really appreciate it - Seriously, I know how much these threads are a PITA, so thank you in advance.

I currently own a 4th gen (2008 Limited V8 4x4) and am fairly OK with it. Capable little bugger but is also extremely quirky. I've done my fair share of maintenance on it, more than I'd like to admit (I did buy it with 119k miles, so was expecting some), but it does everything I thought I wanted in a vehicle. It's RWD, body on frame, V8, off-road capable with true 4x4, 3 rows, decent aftermarket support, and more than reasonable safety features for my family. I always viewed 5th gens as fake Explorers, the loser child of the Explorer world if you will.



A few weeks ago I had a chance to visit the beautiful state of Colorado. The family and I got to rent a 2019 Ford Explorer Sport with the 3.5L twin turbo Ecoboost. I'm not going to lie, I was a little excited to open up the 365hp. Right from the start I was extremely impressed by how it DIDN'T drive like a truck. The throttle response was so much more... well... responsive. It was easier and quicker to accelerate through the stop and go traffic of Denver's highways (lower end torque, wahoo!). The suspension felt good in tighter turns, even the electronic steering I thought was nice. These were originally all the ideas that I thought I would personally hate about this generation. My experience wasn't limited to highway use, I drove it through hilly mountain passes, up to the very top of Pikes Peak (14k+ feet of elevation) and back down using "Sport" mode to lock in gears for engine braking, down long stretches of unpaved dirt/sand/gravel/pothole roads, even drove down around 10k feet of elevation on steep slushy roads after a summer snow storm near Cripple Creek.



We logged just under 1k miles during our week trip. Besides the ample power and driving qualities, I thought the interior was actually a very nice place to be. The leather seats felt good and were pretty comfortable, getting my son's car seat in and out was super easy, and plenty of cargo room in the back, even with the 3rd row up.



I averaged around 18mpg but that was also with me doing WOT more than a few occasions and driving it a bit more aggressively than I normally drive. Nothing like my current 11mpg even when I try to drive it very lightly.

A few weeks have passed and I'm really starting to think about heading down the path of purchasing one of these older Sport models. I'm staying away from anything pre-2016 due to not being a huge fan on the design. Is there anything I should specifically look for on the 2016 models? I've been reading up on this section of the forum for a few weeks now and it seems like the hood paint is 1 issue. Anything mechanically from the 3.5L? Isn't the water pump a huge problem? One of my major worried spots for these vehicles before was that they are all direct injected and left me very worrisome about the eventual gunk build up in the ports. Anyone with a higher mileage Explorer run into this problem?

There's a white, 1-owner, 2016 nearby that's listed for $25,000 but has 90k miles. The dealer wants an additional $3k for a 3 year/35k extended warranty. The higher miles do worry me a little bit... what do you guys think?

Anyways, this is way too long and winded, but I was severely impressed by the 5th generation Explorer. I had for the longest time thought that this gen was lame in comparison to all the others but it is actually quite the opposite.

 

[Ironworker40]

I'm glad you liked it. I came out of a 1993 F-350 8ft bed crew cab, so I am pleased with it's car like feel also. They corner excelant for a SUV and the ride is great. I think that's to much money. I bought mine in August of 2017, its a 2015, it had 18000 miles and was certified pre owned. I paid $30000. With the new 2020 coming I would look for a unit with lower miles a lot of people will be trading them in. Good Luck

 

[Crates]

Find the lowest mileage unit you can afford.

Inspect every body panel carefully for signs of any paint repair.

Look underneath for any signs of oil leaks from the engine, trans, and differentials.

Take the oil fill cap off and look at the underside and inside the engine for any signs of sludge. If you find any, walk away.

Don’t be in a hurry to buy - eventually deals do come up. I found my ‘14 Limited at a dealer near Toronto who had a lot so full of cars there was barely any place to park. They were eager to move inventory and I saved over $3k off any other comparable Ex in the area. They agreed to put all new brakes on it, repair a leaky rear diff seal and fix a rear folding seat issue. The icing on the cake was the engine is super-clean inside, the vehicle had a lengthy history of maintenance in the car-proof report, and the body is perfect other than a couple of small door dings. Made the deal that day and have been really happy with it so far.

My 2 Canadian cents..

 

[Michael Lopour]

If you liked the Sync 3 you had in the 2019, you're going to need to look at '17 or newer. Check whether or not the vehicle had or needed the exhaust-in-cabin TSB (there's a big pinned thread on this).

 

[PotatoExplorer]

Thanks guys! Michael Lopour, I did very much like Sync 3. I've been doing a little research and it seems like you can upgrade the 2016-2017 to Sync 3 by buying a 3rd party bundle? Downside is that it costs a few grand but it would be something I could upgrade in the future.

How would I or could I check visually to see if the exhaust TSB was taken care of really quickly? I'm sure it would come up on a CarFax report but it would be nice to know quickly when combing over the car in a visual inspection.

NADA seems to place a similarly spec'ed 2016 Ex as described in my first post it says it should be somewhere around $28k in my area. Does seem awfully high though. Any idea when the 2020s are going to start dropping?

 

[RhinoQuartz]

Thanks guys! Michael Lopour, I did very much like Sync 3. I've been doing a little research and it seems like you can upgrade the 2016-2017 to Sync 3 by buying a 3rd party bundle? Downside is that it costs a few grand but it would be something I could upgrade in the future.

How would I or could I check visually to see if the exhaust TSB was taken care of really quickly? I'm sure it would come up on a CarFax report but it would be nice to know quickly when combing over the car in a visual inspection.

NADA seems to place a similarly spec'ed 2016 Ex as described in my first post it says it should be somewhere around $28k in my area. Does seem awfully high though. Any idea when the 2020s are going to start dropping?

17N03 is the CO recall. First step is reflective tape above exhaust tips on the bottom of the bumper.

They also resealed the rear hatch and HVAC will have been reprogrammed to turn... off? I think, under WOT.

Next step was turned down exhaust tips - however, they also seemed to have implemented those tips wholesale for retail Explorers of 19MY.

 

[Michael Lopour]

I don't know for sure but I would guess that the spread between buying a used '16 or '17 is going to be less than the upgrade cost and hassle. Are you not looking at '17s? I was finding '17 Platinums in the low to high $30s six months ago, more expensive than Sports for sure.

 

[RhinoQuartz]

I don't know for sure but I would guess that the spread between buying a used '16 or '17 is going to be less than the upgrade cost and hassle. Are you not looking at '17s? I was finding '17 Platinums in the low to high $30s six months ago, more expensive than Sports for sure.

Well they retail for more than a Sport, so the higher used price isn't quite as surprising

 

[PotatoExplorer]

I don't know for sure but I would guess that the spread between buying a used '16 or '17 is going to be less than the upgrade cost and hassle. Are you not looking at '17s? I was finding '17 Platinums in the low to high $30s six months ago, more expensive than Sports for sure.

I'm looking at everything '16+ but it's more of my budget that hinders my search. Ideally I'm trying to stick somewhere in the $24-27,000 range. Most "lower" mileage Explorer Sports (usually around 50k miles) are pushing between $28-31,000+ in this area. Once I factor in the taxes/fees and extended warranties, that adds an additional $5,000 roughly. I really do like the Platinums (that gauge cluster is beautiful... I wonder if it's possible to switch that out in the Sport... can it??) and one of my buddies has one, but I thought the Sport added a little extra to my liking with the stiffer suspension, quicker throttle response and whatnot.

I've been eying up a newer car for the last 6ish years and was really set on purchasing a "newer" Dodge Charger, the generation right before the newer refreshed front end design. I swore that once the new designs started to hit showroom floors that the older design would have a significant, if not noticeable price drop, but it never did happen. That was several years ago and they still seem to be holding out around the same price they were back then.

I am slightly urgent in purchasing a new(er) vehicle due to the fact that my wife and I are expecting our 2nd child at the end of the year. I would like to pass over the 4th gen to her since she currently drives a 99 Taurus and I feel like she should be in something a little better (I guess that's up to debate). I'd ideally like to hammer out a new vehicle purchase before the new set of chaos is mixed into our lives. I'll have the 4th gen fully paid off in September but do plan on expediting this if I can align the right deal.

 

[blwnsmoke]

We just got rid of ours with 145k on it. Although it was pretty solid when I sold it, If I were you, I'd worry about the water pump issues on something that has 90k. And a 3/35k warranty is not a Ford warranty. I would stat away from aftermarket warrantees.

Is this at a Ford dealer? If so, you can buy a Ford used ESP which is the only way I would go. You could do a 3 or 4 yr for far less then $3k.

When I renewed mine at 119k, I did a 3yr/36k and the cost was under $1,800. I can get you hooked up with the pricing if you decide to go through with it.

 

[PotatoExplorer]

We just got rid of ours with 145k on it. Although it was pretty solid when I sold it, If I were you, I'd worry about the water pump issues on something that has 90k. And a 3/35k warranty is not a Ford warranty. I would stat away from aftermarket warrantees.

Is this at a Ford dealer? If so, you can buy a Ford used ESP which is the only way I would go. You could do a 3 or 4 yr for far less then $3k.

When I renewed mine at 119k, I did a 3yr/36k and the cost was under $1,800. I can get you hooked up with the pricing if you decide to go through with it.

Yes, this is through a local Ford dealer. I told the salesman to highball ballpark me a figure for about 5k miles a year driving and that's when he came back with the $3,000 for 3 years/35k miles figure for the extended warranty. I'm guessing the warranties are dependent on what they cover? I'd presume that he gave me a quote for the highest amount of coverage. Is this not right? I'd certainly try to leverage (maybe not on this exact Explorer) warranty price into the final out the door price.

 

[RhinoQuartz]

Yes, this is through a local Ford dealer. I told the salesman to highball ballpark me a figure for about 5k miles a year driving and that's when he came back with the $3,000 for 3 years/35k miles figure for the extended warranty. I'm guessing the warranties are dependent on what they cover? I'd presume that he gave me a quote for the highest amount of coverage. Is this not right? I'd certainly try to leverage (maybe not on this exact Explorer) warranty price into the final out the door price.

Here is a thread that goes into extended warranties a bit for pricing for forum members - Ford ESP at dealer cost to forum members

Here is a link to more detailed info about ESPs in general - Ford Protect Extended Service and MaintenanceFord Protect Extended Service and Maintenance

The consensus here is that if one is purchasing an extended warranty to go for the 'Premiumcare with enhanced 1st day rental coverage'.

 

[blwnsmoke]

Yes, this is through a local Ford dealer. I told the salesman to highball ballpark me a figure for about 5k miles a year driving and that's when he came back with the $3,000 for 3 years/35k miles figure for the extended warranty. I'm guessing the warranties are dependent on what they cover? I'd presume that he gave me a quote for the highest amount of coverage. Is this not right? I'd certainly try to leverage (maybe not on this exact Explorer) warranty price into the final out the door price.

These are not dealer cost.. and there is a guy who sells them to forum members as cost so the pricing would be cheaper. Base care would cover powertrain (engine, trans and ptu) and power steering. These were the major downfalls (ptu and epas) and both cost close to $2,000 for a replacement. That's if the water pump goes and does t blow your motor.

You can go up to 5 years and 48k for $1,800 (cheaper through our contact). The 48k starts at the time you buy it.. so if you bought it at 91,248, you would be covered for 5 yrs or 139,248.

This just gives you some ideas.. and shows how overpriced that $3k is. Also there are other things needed in order to buy one. A used vehicle inspection is required and the vehicle must pass that. Upon passing and faxing the form to our contact (Joel), there is a 30 day grace period before coverage starts. This is based on a 90k odometer. Lower mileage may open up more coverage. Also, I'd highly recommend going for a 2017 with sync 3 over MFT (2011-2016).

 

[PotatoExplorer]

Wow, all great information. Thank you very much. I knew about the ptu issue but didn't realize about the epas. For future reference, could I have the dealership that I would purchase from perform the used vehicle inspection? Do I need to initiate communication with Joel to obtain the form first? Or do I get that from you when I PM you? The 30 day grace period would be alright I think since most used vehicles come with the 3 month/3k mile warranty.

Side question, are the water pumps on these those dreaded internal ones? What would be signs externally that I could visually see or hear?

 

[blwnsmoke]

Wow, all great information. Thank you very much. I knew about the ptu issue but didn't realize about the epas. For future reference, could I have the dealership that I would purchase from perform the used vehicle inspection? Do I need to initiate communication with Joel to obtain the form first? Or do I get that from you when I PM you? The 30 day grace period would be alright I think since most used vehicles come with the 3 month/3k mile warranty.

Side question, are the water pumps on these those dreaded internal ones? What would be signs externally that I could visually see or hear?

Yes, internal.. 12 hours of labor to usually pull motor out to change it. Leaks internally, engine blows, leaks externally, $2k repair.

This is the form that dealer needs to fill out. I'd negotiate the inspection into the deal so you dont have to pay for it.

 

[Michael Lopour]

@RhinoQuartz I was aware the Sport would be cheaper than the Platinum, but I wasn't looking at a Sport so couldn't speak to that pricing.

Where are you looking? I see many Sports available in your area (250miles or less) under $30k retail.
https://www.cars.com/for-sale/searc...30031936&yrId=35797618&yrId=36362520&zc=17013

 

[PotatoExplorer]

@RhinoQuartz I was aware the Sport would be cheaper than the Platinum, but I wasn't looking at a Sport so couldn't speak to that pricing.

Where are you looking? I see many Sports available in your area (250miles or less) under $30k retail.
https://www.cars.com/for-sale/searc...30031936&yrId=35797618&yrId=36362520&zc=17013

I'm trying to keep my search radius under 50 miles, preferably less than that if possible. Saw a few nice ones on that list though!

All of these things like internal water pumps, the ptu, epas, hood paint, exhaust leaks and such seem to really start to pile up on this gen but I kind of feel like a lengthy list of trouble spots are common with any modern car now a days.

 

[Michael Lopour]

I'm trying to keep my search radius under 50 miles, preferably less than that if possible. Saw a few nice ones on that list though!

All of these things like internal water pumps, the ptu, epas, hood paint, exhaust leaks and such seem to really start to pile up on this gen but I kind of feel like a lengthy list of trouble spots are common with any modern car now a days.

It does seem like your location is the reason for the higher prices you are seeing. I will say in my opinion the power train is the reason these vehicles stand out. If you don’t want or need the turbo V6 there are probably better or cheaper options out there but not many choices with this kind of power.

 

[PotatoExplorer]

Yes, this area does kind of suck for vehicle purchases. I experienced the same thing when purchasing my 4th gen. The reason I try to stick with a tighter radius is that once I start going beyond that, I start running into vehicles from Philadelphia, Baltimore, New York city, Washington DC, and Pittsburgh. Most of the used vehicles that have spent their lives there are pretty trashed either body or drivetrain.

I had some time to try and digest most of the advice you guys have given me and I do appreciate it all! I've been watching Youtube videos about the internal water pumps on these (why did they even design it this way?!), and those other common failure points. That warranty sounds like a necessary thing to buy with a new vehicle.

I have a few follow up questions about the Ford Protect Premium Maintenance Plan (PMP) -
1) Would they replace the water pump/timing chain/guides at a specific service interval? If not, I wonder if I can haggle this "maintenance" into the out the door price on the purchase of a new used vehicle
2) Do you need to religiously follow the PMP schedule? I guess in other words, like for oil changes, do I need to 100% of the time get the changes done by Ford or am I able to change it myself some times? I'm guessing it needs to be properly documented by Ford so my guess would be it needs to 100% be done by Ford.
3) How does the warranty work? Can I simply tell the Ford dealer that I need my water pump replaced (or that it's simply "broken") or that I need my PTU gear oil serviced (even though Ford says it will last a life time) and they will do it?

 

[Michael Lopour]

Yes, this area does kind of suck for vehicle purchases. I experienced the same thing when purchasing my 4th gen. The reason I try to stick with a tighter radius is that once I start going beyond that, I start running into vehicles from Philadelphia, Baltimore, New York city, Washington DC, and Pittsburgh. Most of the used vehicles that have spent their lives there are pretty trashed either body or drivetrain.

I had some time to try and digest most of the advice you guys have given me and I do appreciate it all! I've been watching Youtube videos about the internal water pumps on these (why did they even design it this way?!), and those other common failure points. That warranty sounds like a necessary thing to buy with a new vehicle.

I have a few follow up questions about the Ford Protect Premium Maintenance Plan (PMP) -
1) Would they replace the water pump/timing chain/guides at a specific service interval? If not, I wonder if I can haggle this "maintenance" into the out the door price on the purchase of a new used vehicle
2) Do you need to religiously follow the PMP schedule? I guess in other words, like for oil changes, do I need to 100% of the time get the changes done by Ford or am I able to change it myself some times? I'm guessing it needs to be properly documented by Ford so my guess would be it needs to 100% be done by Ford.
3) How does the warranty work? Can I simply tell the Ford dealer that I need my water pump replaced (or that it's simply "broken") or that I need my PTU gear oil serviced (even though Ford says it will last a life time) and they will do it?

I'll leave the specific warranty questions to others but I'm almost positive you just have to wait for the pump to leak or replace it yourself and pay yourself. Pump will either brick the engine or not which is why the warranty is important. I think there was no room in the engine bay for an external pump, it wasn't for any other reason. If you didn't have to drop the engine it might be considered a wear item on the maintenance schedule but it's way too expensive to do proactively under warranty. I don't think oil changes on your own are a problem but you had better keep meticulous records and be ready to fight them because if you were them you'd question any maintenance you didn't handle.