Ford didn't take advice from their own engineers - I will and YOU should too | Ford Explorer Forums - Serious Explorations

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Ford didn't take advice from their own engineers - I will and YOU should too

ExploreHudson

Active Member
Joined
May 21, 2018
Messages
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City, State
San Antonio, TX
Year, Model & Trim Level
'91 Explorer Sport 2D
We have all heard of the Ford vs. Firestone lawsuits and issues with tire separation and Ford Explorers rolling over. Well I'm not here to get into the details; but in short, they both had issues that were valid. I did not look further into the tire issue, because I do not own those specific tires. I do however own a 1991 Ford Explorer, so I have now informed myself of some of the design flaws of the UN46 that were carried over from the Bronco II. Although some flaws were fixed, others were exaggerated. In the months before the release of the 1st gen Ford Explorer, a Ford engineer suggested a few design changes to decrease the chances of a rollover during a high speed J turn maneuver.

Ford didn't take that advice, and many people have lost their lives as a result. Please take the time to read the following and consider the following mods to make your 1st gen Ford Explorer much safer!

  • Widen the track by ~2". You can do this with different wheels or with HIGH QUALITY (do not cheap out here) bolt on hubcentric wheel spacers (70.5mm centerbore, 5x4.5 lug pattern). - - This moves the "trip point" outward from the center of gravity.
  • Lower the car some amount. You can do this with lowering springs from the Ford ranger and rear leaf spring blocks. Or you can run a smaller size tire on the original wheels. The smaller size stated in the owner's manual works well. Most people opt for the bigger tires because they fill up the wheel well better, but bigger is not better in this case. - - This lowers the center of gravity.
  • Stiffer sway bars. - - Reduces chassis roll.
I hope everyone takes some of this advice, it might save your life some day!

Much of the information here came from this document. It's a little long at 26 pages, but its full of pictures and a good read that I recommend to any Ford Explorer owner.

https://www.ammonslaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/ford_explorer_rollover.pdf
 



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You do realize that link is to a document created by a law firm, and its about a 1998 Explorer? First Gen's are from 1991-1994. That entire document is written with dollar signs in mind. I have owned a 1994 Explorer since late 1994, and I had a 1992 for two years before that. I never once thought either one was going to roll over on me unless I did something stupid, like a high speed J turn maneuver. Its not a drift car, its a truck based frame vehicle. Smaller diameter tires will cause the occupants to feel more vibration and allow more driver input.
 






J turns are not typically done unless something unpredictable on the road occurs, which happens often. You too can choose to ignore the physics behind it, just saying there is some valid points and just because that is the article I linked, doesnt mean its the only one out there or the only one I read.

Raising your X will only make this problem worse. The roof strength to weight ratio is informative as well, might consider reinforcing the chassis.

My drift car is a 400 HP 1.9L. E85 1994 Miata FWIW
 






Any vehicle can roll over. The Explorer is no more dangerous then any other SUV. I have made evasive maneuvers at highway speeds without issues. This also after I lifted, add much bigger tires, removed the sway bars and disconnected the ABS system. Yet no roll over.
 






Is this a joke? If it is, it's not even remotely funny.

Talk about beating a dead horse! This topic has been regurgitated more times than a hairball. So over it.

High speed J-Turn!!!!!! LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!
 






Gone. Cya. Good luck to all.

I searched the forum for that exact link and it had not yet been posted. If you choose to be naive or ignorant, thats your loss. If you seriously think all SUVs share the same handling characteristics, then may god have mercy on you.
 






Lol its like that old saying... Can lead a horse to water..
 






I had a Bronco II with a 6" lift, 33" tires and no sway bars... let me tell you... my Explorer feels like a Corvette compared to that.

You do what you want and modify whatever you want and we'll do the same... but don't expect anyone to be real friendly to your holier than thou attitude.
 






I'm sorry, you came to enthusiast forum for a car. Then bash and tell everyone there going to die driving it, and we're all idiots for doing so. How did you think this was going to go?

Do you also troll the Pinto forums and warn everyone about there gas tanks?

:dead:
 






Been here for over a year. Didnt bash it. I love my X for what it is. Ive done some unique mods nobody else had done here before. It became obvious that the information I provided was gonna just piss people off instead of informing them. I hope it still helps a few ppl out there.. I drive my X with my wife in the car sometimes, so safety is important to me. Holier than thou began with the GTFO comments directed at me, for sincerely caring for the community. I take my own advide and am installing wheel spacers etc.

Engineering ethics dictate that safety of the public comes first. In my race car, I installed a roll bar and other protection. In this car, I will make other mods. To each their own, but dont come in here bashing ME when all I really have is the best interest for people here, enthusiasts included.

Loooots of info on that article. If any of you took the time to read it, you woulf realize its not just a bunch of legal jargon. And if you really wanna talk $$$, then take a look at Fords profit on these things.

Ill be reading here still, but dont expect much help from me after this.
 






Been here for over a year. Didnt bash it. I love my X for what it is. Ive done some unique mods nobody else had done here before. It became obvious that the information I provided was gonna just piss people off instead of informing them. I hope it still helps a few ppl out there.. I drive my X with my wife in the car sometimes, so safety is important to me. Holier than thou began with the GTFO comments directed at me, for sincerely caring for the community. I take my own advide and am installing wheel spacers etc.

Engineering ethics dictate that safety of the public comes first. In my race car, I installed a roll bar and other protection. In this car, I will make other mods. To each their own, but dont come in here bashing ME when all I really have is the best interest for people here, enthusiasts included.

Loooots of info on that article. If any of you took the time to read it, you woulf realize its not just a bunch of legal jargon. And if you really wanna talk $$$, then take a look at Fords profit on these things.

Ill be reading here still, but dont expect much help from me after this.

Geez,
I carry a fire extiguisher and a bar of soap. How much safer can a guy be?
 






1988 Ford Bronco II Eddie bauer 4x4, V8, 5" custom lift, 9" wider then factory in front, 4" wider then factory in the rear, front wheels pushed forward 1", 35" tires, no RABS, no sway bars, daily driven for over 20 years. I have done it all in this truck include evasive maneuvers at speed, flat tires at speed (while towing), and driving in Colorado winters for 20+ years. This truck straight gets!!! It will lift a tire if you turn sharp enough on pavement, I have done my fair share of 360's in the snow too..

still upright!

Thanks for the tips, I will keep this in mind when driving my beloved bronco "rollover" prone SUV

The title says "engineers", plural, yet in your description here on EF you said "a former engineer" you should change the title, it is misleading.
 






I have done some STUPID driving in my time, in many different vehicles, on and off road + race tracks, I have broken driveshaft, engine mounts, shattered differentials, broken transmissions, NEVER even come close to rolling over. However, I did drive my 1973 NOVA off the I-275 Dr. MLK Jr. overpass in TAMPA FL @ 4am in the morning in 1988. How someone can flip their car (EXPLORER) on a straight road on a bright sun-shining day is with no other traffic is beyond me. I have had two car crashes in my almost 40 years driving, both my fault, and no serious injuries. Take responsibility, admit you "F" up!
 






I hope the OP realizes that the engineers always have something to say about new model vehicles to make them safer, faster, smoother, etc.. It doesn't mean it needs to be implemented, its just what the attorneys in that lawsuit used to go after Ford. What they recommended would make the vehicle handle better, but it's like the Porsche engineers saying that if there is just two pounds more boost thought the turbos, this puppy would go 205 instead of 202.
 






And the OPs point of bringing this up now is???

This asw only towards vehicles between 20-30 years old now. We're practically driving classic trucks at this point. Lots of people still drive old Mustangs with no crumple zones, EFI, fuel shutoff, ABS, airbags, crumple zones, traction control.... Designed by at best by a computer with 1/10th the power of an Atari 2600....and I don't see trolls bringing up lawsuits about those cars from the past.

The problem was always those people who went out to buy an SUV and drove it around like a lower, flatter vehicle. It's no different than an inexperienced lead-foot in a Mustang, or spilling coffee in your lap at McDonalds. People just love to displace and litigate away their personal responsibility. I actually feel safer in my old X than I do lots of newer vehicles....way safer.
 






I've got spacers and 10" wide wheels on my ranger, I'm super safe!!!

Can you guys explain how to install a hand brake so I can do a J-turn at highway speeds? Regular doughnuts and burnouts are getting boring......
 






Ha! When I was younger we convinced my buddy to pull the e-brake in his Cavalier at highway speed... how we did not roll is a mystery but we ended up in the ditch on the opposite side of the road, facing the other direction. Nice big flat spots on the rear tires too. Good times.
 






I did that in a Suzuki Samurai and it didn't roll, just did a few 360's. We used to do ebrake U-turns in the Crown Vic's that had the press on/off ebrakes until the mechanics complained to the Captain because we were wearing out the pads in a few months. One of my beat partners performed a spectacular onto the dirt shoulder ebrake U-turn. The guy he was turning on was looking at him in the mirror and ran off the road.

There is really no reason in regular or emergency evasive driving to ever pull a J turn.
 






Any car can end up in the submissive position if you drive like a douchebag.
 



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Would 300+ lbs of front/rear bumpers lower the center of gravity?
 






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