Proving Oil Changes?

[bkhiatt]

Hi Helpful Folks,

Last Saturday the CEL comes on in my Wife's 2014 Sport. We drive home and park it, I pull codes - Its a P0016. I read about that code here and decide I'm not messing with it. I do not clear the code.

The car sits all weekend and Monday we drive it to the dealership. It has 97k miles, but we have the extended warranty until 150k miles. Get to the dealership, they start it up, no CEL anymore. I tell them about the P0016 and they write it down.

Tuesday they call back and say the oil is really dirty and it needs an oil change. I think "humm, that's odd, I just gave it an oil change about 6 or 8 weeks ago and the oil life is around 40% according to the computer." But I tell them fine, I'll spend 42 bucks for an oil change, but it that doesn't fix it its on you.

Thursday they call back saying I need a new engine (no other details on the voice mail) and that they need my receipts for all my oil changes.

Now here's my "problem".....

I change my own oil. I have no receipts from quicky lube or such. I buy oil (Mobil 1 synthetic 5w30) by the case, multiple cases at a time when its on sale. I by Motocraft oil filters in big batches (to match the number of oil changes I can get out of the cases of oil I bought) either at the parts store down the street or from Amazon when the parts store is out.

I change the oil when the car tells me to. Once or twice the change oil light has been on for a week until I could get to it due to life, work kids, etc, but that's a few hundred miles over at most.

Before I call back the dealership, any ideas on how I present evidence that I've changed the oil in the Explorer?

And before you ask... No, I don't have a log book of oil changes. When I needed to track mileage between them I did on previous cars, but with this car and the smart oil life monitor, I just moved to changing it when it told me. But assuming I did, would Ford accept that?

Thanks in Advance,
Brian

 

[peterk9]

Hi Brian. Without receipts I don't know how you can prove that you did regular oil changes. That is one of the problems of doing it your self. I guess you don't have receipts for the filters either? I know there are owners who like to do their own maintenance but personally for the small cost of having the dealer do it and dispose of the old oil and have a record of it, I just don't feel it's worth it.
Did you by chance buy the items on a credit card? If so, it should be on the statements. Hopefully others may have a solution.
The bigger question is why does the engine need replacing? P0016 code; replace the crankshaft position sensor on the front bank.

Peter

 

[bkhiatt]

Well at $50 something US each at the dealership, I can change my oil for a lot less buying in bulk when its on sale. And that money adds up. And I'm not loaded. I hate paying for something I can do myself in general. Besides, I get a certain satisfaction on fixing things on my own. It also lets me teach my son how to work on stuff (just like my Dad did with me).

I think I got lucky in that I found my Amazon and O'Reilly's purchase history online for the FL-820S filters and have that printed off, and the local Costco is pulling my purchase history for all Mobil-1 5w30 purchased since Jan 2016 (when I got the car). Hopefully that does it. If not I'm sure I'll be back asking for more tips on dealing with them.

As for the P0016 - Its not a bad sensor, the cam is really out of position they claim. They claim its the phaser, but for the phaser the dealership is telling me Ford Warranty doesn't replace the phaser, they just replace the engine. They also claim the phaser is getting low oil pressure which is why its not operating properly. I asked them what the oil pressure was, and was it a bad oil pump or a clogged oil galley or what and they didn't know because the low phaser oil pressure was just what the computer was telling them.

Not to turn this into a rant against the dealer, but this is what I hate about dealer service. They just tell me what the computer says, they really don't do any "mechanic" things and look for physical problems. But I am also stuck talking to the service adviser who I'm pretty sure has never worked on an engine before. I'd love to talk directly with the person turning the wrenches but that never happens.

Thanks,
Brian

 

[peterk9]

Well with the info you were able to obtain your chances have certainly improved. Do you have a warranty on the vehicle? At my dealership there are no problems speaking with the mechanics or anyone else from the manager on down. In fact the manager says hello every time I go in for service and we sometimes have a bit of a conversation about different things. The service manager also knows me. It has been a small family run Ford/Lincoln dealership for 67 years.

Peter

 

[blwnsmoke]

@peterk9 - 1st post, warranty till 150k

@bkhiatt - is this genuine Ford ESP? I have never been asked for receipts for any claim (granted never had an engine failure). However I do use my manual for date/mileage and keep my receipts. Pretty sure this is the 1st time Inhave read someone posting that the dealer is asking for all receipts. Makes me think it is a 3rd party warranty which are disasters in itself (which is why I asked).

 

[bkhiatt]

@blwnsmoke - Yes. This is genuine Ford ESP. Purchased from the dealer we bought the car from used (not this dealer, bought the car 400 miles away). Up until now they have been good about fixing other small issues and one large one with the warranty previously (sunroof shade issue, gears on the folding mirrors (TSB), ABS light related to rear BLIS seatbelt wiring (TSB - actually did this one twice), hose on turbo that cracked and was leaking oil, PTO/Transfer case that failed, etc)

I'm not sure how this escalates to an engine change either. When I ask basic questions like, how much oil pressure does the engine have, they can't answer. If I was working on a car and suspected an oil pressure issue (see comment above about phaser having low oil pressure) the first thing I'd do is hook up my mechanical oil pressure gauge and see what the oil pump was putting out (but I haven't gone that deep on an engine since my 5.0 and 351C days). Now it just seems they repeat to me what IDS is telling them.

Let me see what these receipts/proof of purchase on the oil and filters gets me. If not, its time to talk to the district manager. This is not a family dealership, its a corporate one with many locations (welcome to big city California) and I don't have time to mess with layers of management.

Thanks,
Brian

 

[03WIExplorerLtd]

Cam phaser? Dirty oil? How.is the coolant? I thought that is a code that can indicate coolant in the oil. Maybe I am wrong, but coolant in the oil can throw a Cel

 

[Flying68]

@bkhiatt This site will be helpful. You may need to go back and construct your own records, including approximate mileage when each oil change occurred.
Auto Warranties & Routine Maintenance

 

[Ntrain]

Do you have the receipts from where you purchased your oil, etc for each oil change?

 

[KayGee]

For some vehicles I used to buy oil and filter only when I needed to change it so I had a receipt for that oil change. Other times I buy oil and filters in bulk. Either way, I keep a log, with all receipts, and track quantities of bulk filters or oil to a specific oil change date. It isn't all that difficult and I usually have 4-6 vehicles at any given time. I even check oil levels every month and document them and any oil added, if necessary to show a maintenance pattern. If you want, you can do it in a spiral notebook in pen and change up the pens periodically and get oily/dirty fingerprints on it to show usage over time.

The thing that seems odd to me is the comment that you just changed the oil 6 or 8 weeks ago and it's already showing as 40%. How many miles has it been since your last oil change 6 or 8 weeks ago? Mine don't even get down to 40% after 5k miles and 30 weeks. What has your oil change history looked like? Avg mths/miles between oil changes?

Hindsight being 20/20, I would not have let the dealer change the oil unless a sample of the old oil was sent out for analysis to verify it. If there isn't a sample, it is essentially your word against theirs so get your ducks in a row.

I would also ask for more details as to why the engine needs replacing.

 

[peterk9]

Do you have the receipts from where you purchased your oil, etc for each oil change?

No receipts. See post #3.

 

[Michael Lopour]

Random thought - does anybody suspect they are going with the "engine needs replacement" solution in the hopes that the owner can't verify the oil changes and thereby also hoping they aren't responsible for any repairs? Whereas if it's simply a defective engine part (crankshaft sensor or something else) they are on the hook for it and can't argue about routine maintenance? Just seems strange since there isn't yet true justification for engine replacement.

 

[Ntrain]

I think I got lucky in that I found my Amazon and O'Reilly's purchase history online for the FL-820S filters and have that printed off, and the local Costco is pulling my purchase history for all Mobil-1 5w30 purchased since Jan 2016 (when I got the car). Hopefully that does it.

No receipts. See post #3.

Hopefully that works for him.

 

[Flying68]

This is why when I do my own air filter changes (and when I did my own oil changes) I always write the mileage and date on the filter itself and write it in a log book I keep in the car. No questions that way.

 

[jrgoffin]

This thread is a perfect example of why, after buying my '14 Sport new, I've saved every receipt - including oil purchases - and document everything in the manual. Not only that, but at each oil change, I send a sample of oil to Blackstone Labs (same for my Cobra). With the ESP out to 8 years & 100K, I don't want to have any hassles with Ford, especially since these turbocharged engines can be hard on the oil. That being said, in 5 years with 35,000 miles, the vehicle has not been problematic (other than the junk sticking rear brakes which I took care of myself).

 

[blwnsmoke]

This thread is a perfect example of why, after buying my '14 Sport new, I've saved every receipt - including oil purchases - and document everything in the manual. Not only that, but at each oil change, I send a sample of oil to Blackstone Labs (same for my Cobra). With the ESP out to 8 years & 100K, I don't want to have any hassles with Ford, especially since these turbocharged engines can be hard on the oil. That being said, in 5 years with 35,000 miles, the vehicle has not been problematic (other than the junk sticking rear brakes which I took care of myself).

To be fair, this is exactly why there is a maintenance section in the back of the manual. I havent seen 1 dealer ever fill it out or stamp it but I sure use it. I'll be sure to ask my dealer to fill it out for the 1st 3 servicings since they are free and then I'll continue on.

I use Blackstone on my 6.7.. will probably do a couple on the ST just to see where we are at for levels.

 

[jrgoffin]

To be fair, this is exactly why there is a maintenance section in the back of the manual. I havent seen 1 dealer ever fill it out or stamp it but I sure use it. I'll be sure to ask my dealer to fill it out for the 1st 3 servings since they are free and then I'll continue on.

I use Blackstone on my 6.7.. will probably do a couple on the ST just to see where we are at for levels.

A dealer will never bother putting a stamp in the book, which is why it is good to hang on to every receipt. At least with Ford, all that stuff is stored in their computers as well. I always create a binder for each vehicle and save everything anyway. Helps with the re-sale value as well when people see something well cared for.

 

[peterk9]

A dealer will never bother putting a stamp in the book,...........

Mine did when asked, but since I have all the invoices for the oil changes and other maintenance, I don't bother with it anymore. Also having the dealer do it means that there is an official record in their system that any subsequent owner can get info from.

Peter

 

[blwnsmoke]

Mine did when asked, but since I have all the invoices for the oil changes and other maintenance, I don't bother with it anymore. Also having the dealer do it means that there is an official record in their system that any subsequent owner can get info from.

Peter

Only if they visit that particular dealership. Only warranty work is available across the dealer network. Any paid for work stays only in that particular dealers system and no other Ford dealer can see it.

 

[bkhiatt]

Thanks Guys.

I get the log book thing and the records. But I was specifically told that was no good, and I needed RECEIPTS. I've managed to dig up every oil and filter purchase receipt (or get a duplicate), but that doesn't prove that the oil was actually changed. The dealership has accepted what I provided and has now actually started to "tear into the engine" (what that means, the service adviser can't tell me).

I get the oil analysis thing too, and I do that every year or so on my modified mustang and my Model-A, but for my wife's around town kid hauler/grocery getter I don't see the cost/benefit coming out in my favor.

Thanks,
Brian