P0741

[Yataku]

Hello everyone i have a problem with my Ford Explorer 2010 and i would be really grateful if you could help me

the car is showing 2 warning lights other than the low pressure warning

i went to check on these lights and i got this as a result

i understood everything beside the last one code: P0741 my mechanic told me it's something in the transmission gearbox but he said he doesn't know what it's specifically i tried to read on the internet to understand what it's but it's not clear it could be a number of many problems

when i start the car this light warning is not present until i drive at a speed faster than 80km/h which is around 50miles/h it pops up immediately
if you could help me understand what's the problem and what's the solution i would be really thankful

 

[michael loibl]

The torque converter is a fluid coupling normally allowing slippage in the transmission to provide a smooth driving experience, but it is designed to lock up much like a manual transmission clutch once steady cruising speeds are reached in order to increase fuel economy and reduce heat generation in the transmission fluid.

For some reason, it appears yours is not engaging lock up mode. I am in no way an expert on this problem, but a few possible causes include: bad torque converter, lock up solenoid, speed sensors, control module, or related wiring.

 

[Yataku]

The torque converter is a fluid coupling normally allowing slippage in the transmission to provide a smooth driving experience, but it is designed to lock up much like a manual transmission clutch once steady cruising speeds are reached in order to increase fuel economy and reduce heat generation in the transmission fluid.

For some reason, it appears yours is not engaging lock up mode. I am in no way an expert on this problem, but a few possible causes include: bad torque converter, lock up solenoid, speed sensors, control module, or related wiring.

Is there a way to know which of these is causing the error code. ? Because fixing and replacing all of these will cost a lot what should i do in my situation ?
Thank you

 

[michael loibl]

Hopefully someone more familiar with the problem will chime in soon, but in the meantime it would help to know which motor and therefore which transmission you have.

I recall reading that some other forum members had to replace torque converter but I’m not sure which transmission that was on, and what the symptoms were.

 

[Yataku]

Hopefully someone more familiar with the problem will chime in soon, but in the meantime it would help to know which motor and therefore which transmission you have.

I recall reading that some other forum members had to replace torque converter but I’m not sure which transmission that was on, and what the symptoms were.

i have the 4L V6 motor with the 5 gears transmission i think it's called 5R55S or something like that
thanks for the help and sorry for the late reply

 

[imp]

i have the 4L V6 motor with the 5 gears transmission i think it's called 5R55S or something like that
thanks for the help and sorry for the late reply

@Yataku OK. @michael loibl said: "a few possible causes include: bad torque converter, lock up solenoid, speed sensors, control module, or related wiring."

The last code specifically calls out the Torque Converter CLUTCH Solenoid as not operating. Rule out the Torque Converter or it's clutch, speed sensors (which have their own fault codes), control module, but keep wiring in the back of your mind.

The clutch (TCC) is the last thing to engage after reaching 5th. gear (or OD). A simple test can be done after that light comes on: increase gas pedal pressure very slightly while watching tachometer. If the needle jumps up a bit, the clutch is slipping, not ENGAGED. The Solenoid brings about Engagement/disengagement electrically.

MOST LIKELY, the solenoid has failed. Correct, transmission is 5R55S. The solenoid is located inside the transmission attached to the underside of the Control Valve Body. Removal of the transmission oil pan allows access to it. The solenoid is part of a group of 8 solenoids, all part of a "module", and cannot be replaced separately. There are a variety of tests performable to assure 100% that the solenoid is faulty; I will not go into them because: the tests are not simple, way beyond your mechanic's level of expertise, and if it were my vehicle I would replace the solenoid module. They may be bought new for under $200. Here is a rebuilt one:

'04-Up 5R55S - Ford Explorer / Mercury Mountaineer Solenoid Pack- 24 Mo Warranty | eBay

See Ebay for new: '04-Up 5R55S - Ford Explorer / Mercury Mountaineer Solenoid Pack- 24 Mo Warranty | eBay

The job should be done by one experienced enough to note any evidence of metal shavings or other debris in the oil pan or on/around the valve body or solenoid package. If such evidence exists, a complete drain and flush including a new in-line fluid filter is recommended. imp

 

[Yataku]

@Yataku OK. @michael loibl said: "a few possible causes include: bad torque converter, lock up solenoid, speed sensors, control module, or related wiring."

The last code specifically calls out the Torque Converter CLUTCH Solenoid as not operating. Rule out the Torque Converter or it's clutch, speed sensors (which have their own fault codes), control module, but keep wiring in the back of your mind.

The clutch (TCC) is the last thing to engage after reaching 5th. gear (or OD). A simple test can be done after that light comes on: increase gas pedal pressure very slightly while watching tachometer. If the needle jumps up a bit, the clutch is slipping, not ENGAGED. The Solenoid brings about Engagement/disengagement electrically.

MOST LIKELY, the solenoid has failed. Correct, transmission is 5R55S. The solenoid is located inside the transmission attached to the underside of the Control Valve Body. Removal of the transmission oil pan allows access to it. The solenoid is part of a group of 8 solenoids, all part of a "module", and cannot be replaced separately. There are a variety of tests performable to assure 100% that the solenoid is faulty; I will not go into them because: the tests are not simple, way beyond your mechanic's level of expertise, and if it were my vehicle I would replace the solenoid module. They may be bought new for under $200. Here is a rebuilt one:

'04-Up 5R55S - Ford Explorer / Mercury Mountaineer Solenoid Pack- 24 Mo Warranty | eBay

See Ebay for new: '04-Up 5R55S - Ford Explorer / Mercury Mountaineer Solenoid Pack- 24 Mo Warranty | eBay

The job should be done by one experienced enough to note any evidence of metal shavings or other debris in the oil pan or on/around the valve body or solenoid package. If such evidence exists, a complete drain and flush including a new in-line fluid filter is recommended. imp

Thank you very much for the help i really appreciate it
i was going to try test the solenoid using a multimeter and a battery to see if it's faulty or not but as you said they are inside the transmission so it's hard to test them doable but still hard
I need to also check the wiring cause it might be the problem but i really don't know how to check it and i took the car to 3 mechanics and all they had in mind is changing the wires for the transmission they said it can't be tested in any other way , the only way is to change the wires with new ones

i tried driving the car with OD off and when i reached 80km/h it got turned on again and the light for the error code came on in the same time
thanks again for helping me

 

[imp]

Thank you very much for the help i really appreciate it
i was going to try test the solenoid using a multimeter and a battery to see if it's faulty or not but as you said they are inside the transmission so it's hard to test them doable but still hard
I need to also check the wiring cause it might be the problem but i really don't know how to check it and i took the car to 3 mechanics and all they had in mind is changing the wires for the transmission they said it can't be tested in any other way , the only way is to change the wires with new ones

i tried driving the car with OD off and when i reached 80km/h it got turned on again and the light for the error code came on in the same time
thanks again for helping me

@Yataku

Keep in mind that the OD, which is 5th. gear, is not related to the Converter Clutch. IOW, even if OD is manually switched OFF, the transmission may still operate with the clutch engaged while in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gears; this depends on vehicle speed and throttle position. Those decisions are carried out by the computer (PCM).

Ford service manuals state that the solenoids may be heard to "click" audibly from outside the transmission as a test of their operability. This is done by applying 12 volts to the appropriate wire entering the transmission, at the connector on the side, and grounding the other wire leading to each solenoid (there are 8 of them). To do this requires knowledge of which connection is which at the connector. I can provide this if you ask. The click testing I have not personally done, though others have said it works. If you choose to attempt this, it would be wise to measure the TCC solenoid's electrical resistance characteristics at the same time, using an Ohmmeter. It's coil resistance specification is 9 to 16 Ohms. Resistance between either coil conductor and GROUND should be immeasurably high- millions of ohms; if low, a coil short to ground exists. It is doubtful, IMO, that the solenoid plunger would "click" if the coil properties were out of spec. In the case of a short to ground, the fuse feeding the solenoid would very likely be open (blown).

Let me know if you would like the connector "pin-out". I will scan it tonight. imp

 

[Yataku]

@Yataku

Keep in mind that the OD, which is 5th. gear, is not related to the Converter Clutch. IOW, even if OD is manually switched OFF, the transmission may still operate with the clutch engaged while in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gears; this depends on vehicle speed and throttle position. Those decisions are carried out by the computer (PCM).

Ford service manuals state that the solenoids may be heard to "click" audibly from outside the transmission as a test of their operability. This is done by applying 12 volts to the appropriate wire entering the transmission, at the connector on the side, and grounding the other wire leading to each solenoid (there are 8 of them). To do this requires knowledge of which connection is which at the connector. I can provide this if you ask. The click testing I have not personally done, though others have said it works. If you choose to attempt this, it would be wise to measure the TCC solenoid's electrical resistance characteristics at the same time, using an Ohmmeter. It's coil resistance specification is 9 to 16 Ohms. Resistance between either coil conductor and GROUND should be immeasurably high- millions of ohms; if low, a coil short to ground exists. It is doubtful, IMO, that the solenoid plunger would "click" if the coil properties were out of spec. In the case of a short to ground, the fuse feeding the solenoid would very likely be open (blown).

Let me know if you would like the connector "pin-out". I will scan it tonight. imp

if it's not too much trouble that would be great
i already have a multimeter to check for the resistance of the solenoid i just need to know which wire to check so that would be so helpful
and if you can tell me which fuse goes to the transmission solenoid to check if it's in good shape altho i doubt it because everything in the transmission is working great shifting gears and everything but wouldn't hurt to check it

"IMO, that the solenoid plunger would "click" if the coil properties were out of spec" do you mean that even if the solenoid was faulty and i tested it using a battery it would still make a clicking sound ?

i'm really thankful for all the help

 

[Yataku]

@imp
and i will try your test by driving at cruising speed and then pressing the pedal slightly and watching the tachometer
i will let you know how it will go asap

 

[imp]

if it's not too much trouble that would be great
i already have a multimeter to check for the resistance of the solenoid i just need to know which wire to check so that would be so helpful
and if you can tell me which fuse goes to the transmission solenoid to check if it's in good shape altho i doubt it because everything in the transmission is working great shifting gears and everything but wouldn't hurt to check it

"IMO, that the solenoid plunger would "click" if the coil properties were out of spec" do you mean that even if the solenoid was faulty and i tested it using a battery it would still make a clicking sound ?

i'm really thankful for all the help

@Yataku


Note the pin numbers in the upper table are "looking into" the main harness, disconnected at the PCM. The pin numbers in the solenoid resistance chart below that are with the connector at the transmission disconnected and measurements are taken directly from the solenoids in the transmission. That connector is illustrated at the bottom: Note the pin numbers run 1 - 6 from top right to bottom, and 11 - 16 from top left to bottom.


"do you mean that even if the solenoid was faulty and i tested it using a battery it would still make a clicking sound ?" Probably not, but keep in mind the solenoid is electromechanical. When mine went bad, the plunger bushing, which guides the stem, had crumbled away (bronze). That condition might still have "clicked" even though the plunger was not engaging/disengaging the hydraulic fluid flow. Many ways in which the solenoid might fail. The plunger might become jammed against movement by debris within, then maybe no click.

Ford Dealer uses little brainpower. His diagnostic machine prompts the sensor input, then measures if the desired result occurs (the hydraulic fluid is properly routed, or not). We lack such ability, so must work cleverly forming conclusions ourselves. Good Luck! imp

EDIT: The fuse involved is shown as #37 in the Battery Junction Box under the hood. This may not be correct for all models using 5R55S.

 

[boominXplorer]

Most of the time it's a valve body or solenoid pack issue but recently I had one that had a bad torque converter. Same deal, no wrench light until 45 mph or so.

 

[Yataku]

@Yataku


Note the pin numbers in the upper table are "looking into" the main harness, disconnected at the PCM. The pin numbers in the solenoid resistance chart below that are with the connector at the transmission disconnected and measurements are taken directly from the solenoids in the transmission. That connector is illustrated at the bottom: Note the pin numbers run 1 - 6 from top right to bottom, and 11 - 16 from top left to bottom.


"do you mean that even if the solenoid was faulty and i tested it using a battery it would still make a clicking sound ?" Probably not, but keep in mind the solenoid is electromechanical. When mine went bad, the plunger bushing, which guides the stem, had crumbled away (bronze). That condition might still have "clicked" even though the plunger was not engaging/disengaging the hydraulic fluid flow. Many ways in which the solenoid might fail. The plunger might become jammed against movement by debris within, then maybe no click.

Ford Dealer uses little brainpower. His diagnostic machine prompts the sensor input, then measures if the desired result occurs (the hydraulic fluid is properly routed, or not). We lack such ability, so must work cleverly forming conclusions ourselves. Good Luck! imp

EDIT: The fuse involved is shown as #37 in the Battery Junction Box under the hood. This may not be correct for all models using 5R55S.

thank you very much i will let you know what the results of the test are

 

[Yataku]

Most of the time it's a valve body or solenoid pack issue but recently I had one that had a bad torque converter. Same deal, no wrench light until 45 mph or so.

i'm really hoping it would be just the solenoid because rebuilding the TC would cost a lot more than just changing the solenoids
sorry to hear about your car , i really hate it when the car just gives up and everything goes bad like 1 thing after the other , hope you get it all fixed and good luck with it

 

[Yataku]

@Yataku OK. @michael loibl said: "a few possible causes include: bad torque converter, lock up solenoid, speed sensors, control module, or related wiring."

The last code specifically calls out the Torque Converter CLUTCH Solenoid as not operating. Rule out the Torque Converter or it's clutch, speed sensors (which have their own fault codes), control module, but keep wiring in the back of your mind.

The clutch (TCC) is the last thing to engage after reaching 5th. gear (or OD). A simple test can be done after that light comes on: increase gas pedal pressure very slightly while watching tachometer. If the needle jumps up a bit, the clutch is slipping, not ENGAGED. The Solenoid brings about Engagement/disengagement electrically.

MOST LIKELY, the solenoid has failed. Correct, transmission is 5R55S. The solenoid is located inside the transmission attached to the underside of the Control Valve Body. Removal of the transmission oil pan allows access to it. The solenoid is part of a group of 8 solenoids, all part of a "module", and cannot be replaced separately. There are a variety of tests performable to assure 100% that the solenoid is faulty; I will not go into them because: the tests are not simple, way beyond your mechanic's level of expertise, and if it were my vehicle I would replace the solenoid module. They may be bought new for under $200. Here is a rebuilt one:

'04-Up 5R55S - Ford Explorer / Mercury Mountaineer Solenoid Pack- 24 Mo Warranty | eBay

See Ebay for new: '04-Up 5R55S - Ford Explorer / Mercury Mountaineer Solenoid Pack- 24 Mo Warranty | eBay

The job should be done by one experienced enough to note any evidence of metal shavings or other debris in the oil pan or on/around the valve body or solenoid package. If such evidence exists, a complete drain and flush including a new in-line fluid filter is recommended. imp

@imp i wanted to ask you a few questions about buying from ebay cause i have no experience whatsoever , i never bought anything from ebay let alone car parts
are these parts original parts ? or are they some kind of cheap replica ?
are they new or refurbished ?
is it good to buy car parts from ebay ?
i'm asking because i went to a few stores to check the price for the Solenoids and it cost around 400 dollars just for the solenoids so i was surprised when i saw the prices on ebay
thank you again for all your help i really appreciate it

 

[imp]

@imp i wanted to ask you a few questions about buying from ebay cause i have no experience whatsoever , i never bought anything from ebay let alone car parts
are these parts original parts ? or are they some kind of cheap replica ?
are they new or refurbished ?
is it good to buy car parts from ebay ?
i'm asking because i went to a few stores to check the price for the Solenoids and it cost around 400 dollars just for the solenoids so i was surprised when i saw the prices on ebay
thank you again for all your help i really appreciate it

@Yataku
A good thing about Ebay is that there are several "fail-safe" factors involved, as well as histories of each seller's length of time there as well as their sales volume. Each vendor has a "reputation" which is developed by the purchasers. The buyer is given an option to write "feed-back" about every single transaction. These feedbacks are continually updated, as sales progress.

Pick a part desired, then view that seller's feedback. Some have sold thousands of items, and maintain feedback of +99% or even better. Dissatisfaction with a transaction is logged as "negative feedback".

Generally, parts listed for sale are shown as to their condition, new, used, or reconditioned. I purchased my solenoid module quite a number of years ago, represented as "New". It came in the original Bosch-made and sealed box, I believe it cost ~ $180.

If you are considering doing this job yourself, I strongly recommend obtaining a copy of the transmission repair manual outlining the 5R55S. Mine is

ATSG- Automatic Transmission Service Group
18635 SW 107th. Avenue
Miami, Florida 33157
(305) 670-4161
800 245-7722

5R55W 5R55S Rebuild Manual ATSG Automatic Transmission Service Overhaul Book Ford Mercury Lincoln

 

[imp]

Most of the time it's a valve body or solenoid pack issue but recently I had one that had a bad torque converter. Same deal, no wrench light until 45 mph or so.

@boominXplorer @Yataku

We need to understand that not all failures are "seeable" by the PCM on a one-to-one basis. The TCC is like that, it can fail itself in one of two ways, neither of which is detectable directly. It can lock-up and refuse to release, or it can remain disengaged and refuse to lock-up when commanded to do so (the solenoid is commanded).

So, given that PCM knows the speed of the engine and TC output at all times (the turbine or transmission input shaft), it commands the solenoid ON, then waits a short time for both engine and turbine speeds to become EQUAL. That means the TC is effectively out of the powerflow picture, power being directed from engine crankshaft directly to the transmission input shaft.

If after command, those speeds remain DIFFERENT, the TCC is SLIPPING, NOT ENGAGED, and a code will be thrown relating to "incorrect shaft speed" or "incorrect gear ratio". These are to differentiate between failure caused by the TCC itself, or the solenoid not working properly. The test I described using the tachometer uses these facts: if the TCC is NOT ENGAGED and the gas pedal is depressed slightly m ore, eng. rpms will jump higher, due to TC slippage. If rpms hold steady, the clutch is engaged. imp

 

[bobditts]

I had the same code. Turned out the transmission valve body needed replacing. Its a messy job, but very easy. Here is my thread about it. I hope it helps

SOLVED 2007 xlt drivetrain wrench light help???

 

[imp]

I had the same code. Turned out the transmission valve body needed replacing. Its a messy job, but very easy. Here is my thread about it. I hope it helps

SOLVED 2007 xlt drivetrain wrench light help???

@bobditts

Was the solenoid module replaced as part of the valve body, or the old solenoids re-used? Reason I ask is, in my case, I never got the "wrench" icon, only the CEL. But, I can see how the valve body could easily cause the TCC malfunction. imp

 

[Chris Lippold]

@bobditts

Was the solenoid module replaced as part of the valve body, or the old solenoids re-used? Reason I ask is, in my case, I never got the "wrench" icon, only the CEL. But, I can see how the valve body could easily cause the TCC malfunction. imp

Did you ever find a solution?