2 row radiator vs 1 row

[Luis De La Paz]

I have a 1997 Ford explorer 5.0l v8 with stock 2 row radiator thats no good will it damage my truck if I put 1 row radiator from a 2001 v8 explorer

 

[BrooklynBay]

Welcome to this forum! More rows are more efficient to cool the engine faster since there is more surface area to dissipate heat.

 

[Luis De La Paz]

Welcome to this forum! More rows are more efficient to cool the engine faster since there is more surface area to dissipate heat.

Yes I understand that. 2001 v8 comes 1 row will my 2007 v8 that came with 2 row be ok with 1 row. Deos it nead the 2 row or is 1row ok

 

[974X4BLACKSPORT]

A one row radiator will work in place of a two row when offered originally from the factory. A two row radiator is LESS efficient than a one row, however the additional capacity gives it the ability to remove more heat from the water. Every row added to the core behind the first row in the airstreem will have less cooling ability due to the heated air from the one in front of it.

 

[Luis De La Paz]

Thanks great to be able to ask on the more knowledgeable for help.

 

[BrooklynBay]

Check Rock Auto's website for a list of available radiators. They have a 5% off coupon code if you search online.

 

[koda2000]

I use 1 row radiators. That's what my vehicle came with and I figure that's good enough. I don't tow or climb mountains and I rarely even drive on highways. A 2 row offers additional capacity which is good if you tow a trailer and climb a lot of hills, but as said a 2 row is less efficient than a 1 row.

RA now carries CFS brand radiators. I've installed four 1 row CSF rads and other than one that failed (and was then warrantied) I have had zero problems.

 

[donalds]

I bought a 1 row ..denso.. to replace my factory 2 row factory my truck ran hotter got a spectra premium 2 row and it's back to running cool 190

If the 2 row is less efficient why does it work better?

 

[Luis De La Paz]

I use 1 row radiators. That's what my vehicle came with and I figure that's good enough. I don't tow or climb mountains and I rarely even drive on highways. A 2 row offers additional capacity which is good if you tow a trailer and climb a lot of hills, but as said a 2 row is less efficient than a 1 row.

RA now carries CFS brand radiators. I've installed four 1 row CSF rads and other than one that failed (and was then warrantied) I have had zero problems.

Thanks i reallyreally appreciate the help

 

[imp]

I bought a 1 row ..denso.. to replace my factory 2 row factory my truck ran hotter got a spectra premium 2 row and it's back to running cool 190

If the 2 row is less efficient why does it work better?

@donalds

Efficiency and cooling capacity are two different things. @974X4BLACKSPORT is correct in what he stated, but did not explain the concepts.

For example, let's say a 1-row radiator is 60% efficient. Putting in another row will result in less overall efficiency, say it will then be 50%. BUT, the total amount of heat removed will be GREATER than with the 1 row. It's sort of like declining benefit with increasing cost. BUT, if hot-running, that is, coolant temperatures much above the thermostat's rating is the norm with a 1-row, use of a 2 row may be indicated. Use in very hot climate often proves taxing to original equipment equipped vehicles. I live where the summer temperatures routinely exceed 115 degrees. This taxes many cooling systems, especially those very old, perhaps sludge-lined, where heat transfer is lessened. An added row and cleaning of the system is often seen here.

Heavy-duty usage, like trucks, often "damn" the added original cost, and come with 3 and even 4 row radiators, to ensure acceptable performance. Adding rows of course is not always easy, due to space limitations. Another means of increasing heat removal capacity is going to a BIGGER cross-section radiator, higher or wider, or both, often space-limited, though. Recently, manufacturing techniques have improved, and aluminum radiators are commonly being used by the factory. This lessens weight, one of the mpg worries of the manufacturers. Plastic end tanks have become common, same reason.

Aluminum is nice, looks pretty if unpainted (not a good idea, as BLACK is always desirable), but black paint IMPEDES heat flow. If you want guaranteed effective cooling with a radiator of same size and number of rows as the original, clean and flush the cooling system, and buy a BRASS radiator with BRASS tanks and you will greatly improve the situation. They still make them. Why better than Aluminum? Brass conductivity + 400, Aluminum = 240, you figure it out. Almost double with Brass.

Regarding heavy-duty cooling packages from the factory, like Police Special cooling, in those applications the aim is to be able to stand with engine idling and A/C on High, vehicle standing still, for extended periods; all day, even, if need be, without overheating.

Lastly, INCREASING the air flow volume through any given radiator will increase it's heat removal capacity. This may be done by bigger fans and or faster fans. With fixed blade or clutch-driven fans, pulley diameter changes are the name of the game. Electric fans are a whole 'nother topic, not for here.

NO, I DO NOT SELL RADIATORS! imp

 

[donalds]

@donalds

Efficiency and cooling capacity are two different things. @974X4BLACKSPORT is correct in what he stated, but did not explain the concepts.

For example, let's say a 1-row radiator is 60% efficient. Putting in another row will result in less overall efficiency, say it will then be 50%. BUT, the total amount of heat removed will be GREATER than with the 1 row. It's sort of like declining benefit with increasing cost. BUT, if hot-running, that is, coolant temperatures much above the thermostat's rating is the norm with a 1-row, use of a 2 row may be indicated. Use in very hot climate often proves taxing to original equipment equipped vehicles. I live where the summer temperatures routinely exceed 115 degrees. This taxes many cooling systems, especially those very old, perhaps sludge-lined, where heat transfer is lessened. An added row and cleaning of the system is often seen here.

Heavy-duty usage, like trucks, often "damn" the added original cost, and come with 3 and even 4 row radiators, to ensure acceptable performance. Adding rows of course is not always easy, due to space limitations. Another means of increasing heat removal capacity is going to a BIGGER cross-section radiator, higher or wider, or both, often space-limited, though. Recently, manufacturing techniques have improved, and aluminum radiators are commonly being used by the factory. This lessens weight, one of the mpg worries of the manufacturers. Plastic end tanks have become common, same reason.

Aluminum is nice, looks pretty if unpainted (not a good idea, as BLACK is always desirable), but black paint IMPEDES heat flow. If you want guaranteed effective cooling with a radiator of same size and number of rows as the original, clean and flush the cooling system, and buy a BRASS radiator with BRASS tanks and you will greatly improve the situation. They still make them. Why better than Aluminum? Brass conductivity + 400, Aluminum = 240, you figure it out. Almost double with Brass.

Regarding heavy-duty cooling packages from the factory, like Police Special cooling, in those applications the aim is to be able to stand with engine idling and A/C on High, vehicle standing still, for extended periods; all day, even, if need be, without overheating.

Lastly, INCREASING the air flow volume through any given radiator will increase it's heat removal capacity. This may be done by bigger fans and or faster fans. With fixed blade or clutch-driven fans, pulley diameter changes are the name of the game. Electric fans are a whole 'nother topic, not for here.

NO, I DO NOT SELL RADIATORS! imp

Thanks now I understand

 

[koda2000]

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120387073105514426

Enter it at checkout in the "How did you hear about us?" box.

 

[J_C]

If you want guaranteed effective cooling with a radiator of same size and number of rows as the original, clean and flush the cooling system, and buy a BRASS radiator with BRASS tanks and you will greatly improve the situation. They still make them. Why better than Aluminum? Brass conductivity + 400, Aluminum = 240, you figure it out. Almost double with Brass.

Not sure where you're getting your data but that +400 compared to 240, looks a lot more like 400 for copper and 240 for aluminum, with brass lower than either in the 100's range. I'd still rather brass because its much easier to braze or solder, but I wouldn't be willing to pay a premium for a 20 y/o vehicle that isn't appreciating in value.

 

[imp]

Not sure where you're getting your data but that +400 compared to 240, looks a lot more like 400 for copper and 240 for aluminum, with brass lower than either in the 100's range. I'd still rather brass because its much easier to braze or solder, but I wouldn't be willing to pay a premium for a 20 y/o vehicle that isn't appreciating in value.

@J_C
I couldn't find a coefficient of specific heat for brass, so used copper. Brass may have as much as 95% copper and 5% zinc, so used copper for comparison. There is no sense splitting hairs, as there are so many variables involved. Where did you determine value for brass? If I'm wrong, I apologize. imp

 

[J_C]

Brass is way lower than copper, surprising given the small alloy change. It's a relative ratio depending on how you measure (express) it and depends on the alloy, but here is one example:

Thermal Conductivity

There are many comparisons and alloys, but brass (practically) always ends up lower thermal conductivity than aluminum.

 

[donalds]

All this talk about brass reminds me of buffalo when I was a kid we took a school trip to the factory ...American brass... super cool seeing the HUGE slabs of red glowing brass getting rolled into thin rolled brass

 

[masospaghetti]

Brass is way lower than copper, surprising given the small alloy change. It's a relative ratio depending on how you measure (express) it and depends on the alloy, but here is one example:

Thermal Conductivity

There are many comparisons and alloys, but brass (practically) always ends up lower thermal conductivity than aluminum.

To heck with brass, aluminum, or even copper. Diamond radiator for the win. 1000 W/m K!

 

[donalds]

 

[imp]

Brass is way lower than copper, surprising given the small alloy change. It's a relative ratio depending on how you measure (express) it and depends on the alloy, but here is one example:

Thermal Conductivity

There are many comparisons and alloys, but brass (practically) always ends up lower thermal conductivity than aluminum.

@J_C

OK, thanks for that! Note in the table, the first column has no entry for brass. I believe we are comparing thermal heat transfer in several different ways here. I used the classic Thermal heat transfer expression Q = mc (Delta t), where Q = quantity of heat transferred, m = the mass of material involved, c = the Specific Heat coefficient of the material, and Delta t is the difference in temperature (or temperature drop) for radiators.

The 2nd. column in your table is involved with a different situation, I think. I am not familiar with several of the terms expressed, but think the second column is concerned with surface thermal qualities while the first uses the Specific Heat C as does the classic formula.

I think I am not really interested in doing a pissing match over it. I CAN tell you this: touching a brass radiator tank which is not too hot to touch comfortably and an aluminum one both having the same temperature coolant in them will convince you the brass transfers more heat. One's feel can tell the difference. I've done it. imp

 

[donalds]

I want a all brass radiator but I'd get a top flow with a sweet brass eagle cap and mount it on the bumper like a 1909 cadillac