97 V8 AWD 88k, Fuel System Issue - Mechanic has given up | Ford Explorer Forums - Serious Explorations

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97 V8 AWD 88k, Fuel System Issue - Mechanic has given up

ELeBlanc

Well-Known Member
Joined
December 12, 2016
Messages
230
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Location
brooklyn ny
City, State
brooklyn, ny
Year, Model & Trim Level
1997 Ford Explorer
Part one of the story - maybe related or not. Started 240 mile trip to friends house. Stopped to get gas. Took some gas then pump kept stopping after shorter and shorter time periods. Then stopped taking any gas - pump immediately shut off. Drove few more miles then went to another gas station and it filled without any issues,

Next day, after 240 mile trip, I drove a mile and stopped briefly. WHen I got back in the vehicle cranked and all elctronics came on but it didn't start. I am not mechanically inclined at all and whatever knowledge I have comes from reading here. So I don't know id the pump was making initial starting noise...

Oh - one other thing. When I bought the vehicle 11 months ago seller told me it had a fuel pump issue and he never had it repaired or registered in the 2 years he owned it. Brought it to my mechanic who said it was just the relay and the pump was fine. Drove without issue for 11 months until what happened in prior paragraphs.

So back to being broekn down 240 miles from home and taking it to a mechanic I did not know. After a day the mechanic said he swapped and reseated the relays. Removed and re-installed the fusebox. He didnt find anything wrong but it was back starting again. I took it, and paid him $140, and drive it for two hours until it konked out in a Walmart parking lot.

Next day I had it towed back to him. I don't know what he did or didnt do but he said to me that there was no powed at the fuel pump (so he concluded issue was not the pump). He mentioned the interia switch which was not in a tripped state.

After spending hours more he found nothing and said I'd need to take it to a dealer. His best guess that it was something in the bundle of wires underneath the fuse box and that the dealer would have some device to test this.

Help. Now I have TWO non-functional 97 5.0 AWDs 240 miles from home. Other one I backed the driver tailight into a pole and it has body issues and there is a leak under the plate by driver side door that protects the drive line. I started it once a month and it starts right up. 130k on that one.

I also tried banging the gas tank (this worked and save me a tow to my mechanic on an earlier explorer). And I took the relay from the body damaged one and put it into the non-starting one.

Next stop dealer but not being able to do repairs myself - this could cost me big bucks including third tow in 2 weeks.

Einar
 



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Sounds like fuel pump itself.

Good luck.
 






I'm from out of the area so I dont know any of the mechanics but this guy has been in business for 30 years and the cab company (yup had to use cabs) told me that he was well thought of as a mechanic.

He told me that there was no power getting to the fuel pump. Can someone with 30 years of experience not know how to tell that?
 






Sounds like a overheating fuel pump to me

Someone put in a cheap pump like airtex or something
 






These fuel pumps often sputter out in a series of intermittent problems.

Your problem is either an odd and obscure electrical power issue, or a fairly common fuel pump failure. These fuel pumps are finicky, so I would resolve the common issue and replace the fuel pump.

I do not what testing this mechanic did, or how he formed his conclusions. Maybe the mechanic is correct(?).

But either way, this is not an easy fix like swapping relays. So you are almost sure to need further mechanic services.

Good luck.
 






Please let us know the conclusion of this “fix.”

And good luck.
 






I feel for you there, fuel pump issues are no fun, the R&R of the pump being the worst case deal.

My new 98 died this past Wednesday at work, just quit running when I stopped at a box. I had it towed home and finally yesterday got to test the fuel pressure. I got zero testing, so moved the car(pushed) to where I can get under it to the pump today.

First, again check the relays, Find the pump relay and the horn relay, tap the horn, then swap those relays. If the relay is fine and it doesn't start, then it might be the wiring terminals underneath which the relay plugs into.

When I get the pump relay out, that's when I will gently(very gently) push down on the individual terminals in the relay connector(PDB-outside fuse box).

The wire terminals each have a tiny plastic tang which holds them in, they are fragile and can be broken(relay pushed in and the terminals catch somehow(bent relay terminal blade etc). If one of those wire terminals is not being connected(broken tang), the pump will run intermittently, or not at all. Fixing that kind of issue is not difficult, but bothersome. The PDB would have to come up and twisted enough to get to the bottom side and the cover off, and find the terminal in question, and put it back in, and RTV the backside of it, and wait for the RTV to cure.

I'll let you know whether mine is the relay, terminal or a pump. Good luck,
 






okay so this is a very simple test
There is an electrical plug on the frame rail just in front of the drivers rear tire. It is grey or black round 8 pin connector.
All the wires from the truck to the fuel pump go through this plug.

With a multimeter or test light you want to see if there is 12V being sent to the pump when you turn the key.
The pump power wires are larger then the other wires in the plug. Usually the pump is black/white ground and yellow is power
If there is 12V when you turn the key then that rules out the issue being the FUSE, Relay, Intertia switch and PCM
If no power then its time to check the truck side of things and find out why there is no power.
Start at the PCM and check wiring fuel pump signal wire
The PCM triggers the relay
The relay is powered by the fuse
The power goes through the interia switch

Now the next step is to feed the fuel pump with 12V. You can use some long wires and your cars battery, you can use a jumper box, or a spare battery whatever. basically you want to send 12V to the fuel pump and see if the pump comes on. If the pump comes on how does it sound? Does it sound healthy? Is it abnormally loud? How much PSI is it making at the fuel rail when cold.

This test will tell you
A if the truck has power to the pump
B if the pump runs when powered

Your mechanic says the issue is on the truck side of things, under/inside the power dist box. This may be the case, since the signal wire from the PCM, the fuse power and relay power are all inside the power dist box.
Inspect the blades where the fuse and relay connect. All wires present? Corrosion? Any pins pressed in too far? wires missing?

When fuel pumps get older they can sometimes work adequate while cold, but once they start to heat up they will not be able to keep up with demand and te truck will eventually stop running and be hard to re start. When it dies you should check fuel pressure at the rail
Wait for a while, the pump cools, the truck will start right up. Again now check fuel psi at the rail, This is a good way to pinpoint a weak pump.
Listen to the pump, remove the gas filler cap and put your ear to the filler hose, you can hear the pump really well this way
Fun fact, the fuel in the fuel tank is what cools your fuel pump. So if you continually drive around with 1/8 tank of fuel your pump will not last as long as somebody who keeps their tank full
Also USE BOSCH OEM pumps ONLY! Dropping the fuel tank and replacing the pump is the expensive part, the labor. Parts are CHEAP in comparison. Crappy auto parts store pumps have cost Explorer owners TONS of grief and $$$$$$$$$$

Now the "other" 97 5.0 with 130K and a bad tail light. Why are you not driving this one home? Body damage? Your post is not clear.....
 






Didn't someone ask "what is this relay for" a while back?
HMMMM no power to pump. Where did he measure voltage?
 






Bad fuel pump. Every one of the 6 Explorer/Mountaineer/Sport Trac fuel pumps I've replaced demonstrated intermittent starting problems before they crapped out. One went for years like this and would only cause a problem maybe once a year or so. When replacing the fuel pump be sure to also replace the fuel filter and in-tank strainer sock.

For the person that asked what the relay is for... try researching why relays are used in any electrical circuits. They transfer power and reduce amperage at switches.
 






I feel for you there, fuel pump issues are no fun, the R&R of the pump being the worst case deal.

My new 98 died this past Wednesday at work, just quit running when I stopped at a box. I had it towed home and finally yesterday got to test the fuel pressure. I got zero testing, so moved the car(pushed) to where I can get under it to the pump today.

First, again check the relays, Find the pump relay and the horn relay, tap the horn, then swap those relays. If the relay is fine and it doesn't start, then it might be the wiring terminals underneath which the relay plugs into.

When I get the pump relay out, that's when I will gently(very gently) push down on the individual terminals in the relay connector(PDB-outside fuse box).

The wire terminals each have a tiny plastic tang which holds them in, they are fragile and can be broken(relay pushed in and the terminals catch somehow(bent relay terminal blade etc). If one of those wire terminals is not being connected(broken tang), the pump will run intermittently, or not at all. Fixing that kind of issue is not difficult, but bothersome. The PDB would have to come up and twisted enough to get to the bottom side and the cover off, and find the terminal in question, and put it back in, and RTV the backside of it, and wait for the RTV to cure.

I'll let you know whether mine is the relay, terminal or a pump. Good luck,

What does RTV stand for?
 






room temperature vulcanizing silicone
 






My truck ended up being the fuel pump, and what was in it looked like a whole assembly, the hose clamps were a pinched type. The pump looked identical to my new Bosch pump, except for a different number on one surface, "34" instead of "33."

Now though after running for a couple of minutes, it began running very rough. The engine is vibrating a bunch left to right, one or more cylinders aren't firing right. I hope it didn't run lean for a time and hurt the cats, I'm hoping it's a spark plug or something else minor like that. The EGR pipe leak was minor in sound before, now that is fairly loud, the hole is no bigger though. So that suggest the issue is on the right side at the least.
 






Do you have an aftermarket alarm?, if so, sometimes the alarm installer puts the original key tie wrapped to the transponder sensor located at the ignition switch, and make you do a second key to start the truck, doesn't know if its you're case but I had a similar issue and that was my problem, check the alarm light at the dashboard, it should be steady or blinking slowly, if blinking fast, then you face a problem with the alarm, hope it helps.
 






okay so this is a very simple test
There is an electrical plug on the frame rail just in front of the drivers rear tire. It is grey or black round 8 pin connector.
All the wires from the truck to the fuel pump go through this plug.

With a multimeter or test light you want to see if there is 12V being sent to the pump when you turn the key.
The pump power wires are larger then the other wires in the plug. Usually the pump is black/white ground and yellow is power
If there is 12V when you turn the key then that rules out the issue being the FUSE, Relay, Intertia switch and PCM
If no power then its time to check the truck side of things and find out why there is no power.
Start at the PCM and check wiring fuel pump signal wire
The PCM triggers the relay
The relay is powered by the fuse
The power goes through the interia switch

Now the next step is to feed the fuel pump with 12V. You can use some long wires and your cars battery, you can use a jumper box, or a spare battery whatever. basically you want to send 12V to the fuel pump and see if the pump comes on. If the pump comes on how does it sound? Does it sound healthy? Is it abnormally loud? How much PSI is it making at the fuel rail when cold.

This test will tell you
A if the truck has power to the pump
B if the pump runs when powered

Your mechanic says the issue is on the truck side of things, under/inside the power dist box. This may be the case, since the signal wire from the PCM, the fuse power and relay power are all inside the power dist box.
Inspect the blades where the fuse and relay connect. All wires present? Corrosion? Any pins pressed in too far? wires missing?

When fuel pumps get older they can sometimes work adequate while cold, but once they start to heat up they will not be able to keep up with demand and te truck will eventually stop running and be hard to re start. When it dies you should check fuel pressure at the rail
Wait for a while, the pump cools, the truck will start right up. Again now check fuel psi at the rail, This is a good way to pinpoint a weak pump.
Listen to the pump, remove the gas filler cap and put your ear to the filler hose, you can hear the pump really well this way
Fun fact, the fuel in the fuel tank is what cools your fuel pump. So if you continually drive around with 1/8 tank of fuel your pump will not last as long as somebody who keeps their tank full
Also USE BOSCH OEM pumps ONLY! Dropping the fuel tank and replacing the pump is the expensive part, the labor. Parts are CHEAP in comparison. Crappy auto parts store pumps have cost Explorer owners TONS of grief and $$$$$$$$$$

Now the "other" 97 5.0 with 130K and a bad tail light. Why are you not driving this one home? Body damage? Your post is not clear.....


410Fortune: I sent your post to the mechanic. He said "he did all that". Don't know if I believe him. Last he said was there was no power at the relays. Vehicle is now at a Ford dealer. Ford dealer in State College PA has a two week wait for service appointments - yikes.

Other 97 V8 AWD of mine which I backed into a light pole a year ago is still in GF's driveway. I started right away and I put a cardboad box under the metal plate that protects the driveshaft because I though the leak I'd seen recently when I turned it over was from that location... Boy was I wrong.. Box had no leak on it. Lots of green coolant fluid came from the front of the vehicle near the radiator. Not sure exactly where it came from. Any thoughts? Need few more $$$ but soon I want to get this one to that first mechanic so he can tell me whats going on. He also does body work and this needs work back in the driver side rear...

Einar
 






no power at the relay, nice now that he found the issue he should be able to find out why there is no power at the relay........

if coolant is leaking from near the radiator its either a bad radiator or a leaky hose/cap
 






I should have looked underneath but it was 20 degrees out. I don't know for a fact that the leak is from the radiator. All I know is its very far towards the front. If its not the radiator what else is towards the front that. Anythnig that could be leaking coolant that could be expensive?
 






That's a loaded question! Sure it could be a freeze plug in the side of the engine block, it could be the oil cooler sprung a leak, but its most likely a radiator cap or hose, the bypass hose that goes from waterpump to heater pipes are known to burst when you don't want them too, they are about $9 and a real PITA to replace in the truck easily.
 






So this is where I thought you and Koda2000 both provide excellent advice. You outlined the testing procedure to follow to know for sure what the issue is with the truck. Koda2000 said that in terms of likelihood of occurrence, its most likely to be the fuel pump.

Coolant to transmission? Freeze plug I'm guessing is on the possible but low percentage side. No engine issues that I can tell.

Overall, fuel pump vehicle has 80k and backed into pole vehicle has 130k. Both are northeast vehicles so both have frame rust. But need to figure out what I'm going to do with both and what costs might be.
 



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