Replace engine or replace truck? SOLVED

[Cstoliker]

2000 Ex XLT 4.0 SOHC 120k
Needs rear timing chain and probably a head replaced. Can’t find a local shop willing/able to do the work. Only replacement engine in area has 150k miles but would come with 3year warranty installed for $3,300.00.
This far exceeds the book value on the truck however, I would be hard pressed to find a replacement for that money that has every thing I need like the 4.10:1 gears and a 5speed that actually works. It has lots of upgrades and new parts listed below.
What it’s got going for it:
2” lift
32”tires
Very nice stereo
Remote starter
Class 5 hitch with proportional brake controller.
Transmission temp gauge.
New leaf springs, shackles ball joint and a couple wheel bearings.
Average rust for upstate NY. Nothing structural yet.
Rated for 5,700lb towing. I tow a 5k trailer with it twice a year.
I’ve owned it. a number of years, it’s registered insured and I trust it.

 

[974X4BLACKSPORT]

Thats exactly where I put my amp!
With all the upgrades you have done, and if the body rust is not that bad, I think it would be best to fix or replace engine as needed.

 

[Cstoliker]

Thats exactly where I put my amp!
With all the upgrades you have done, and if the body rust is not that bad, I think it would be best to fix or replace engine as needed.

The stereo I’m particular proud of, very clean install. All connections soldered and heat shrink insulated. Bought a factory sub box, stuffed a Kicker R8” dvc in it with amp that just fits. Best of all the rear view camera now works as a fish finder in deeper water ;-)

 

[94Eddie]

I am very surprised that it is hard to find that engine since it has been used in so many vehicles and for such a very long time. Have you tried looking into using one from a Mustang, Ranger, newer Explorer etc.? All you would need to do is swap the 2000 Explorer specific parts from your engine to the replacement. The condition of the body would play a big role in whether I would try to save it. If it has any amount of rocker panel, fender well rust then I would let it go. For $3,300 you could find a very decent 3rd gen Explorer with lower miles than the one you currently have.

Lastly, if you need the upgrades you have done to this vehicle then pricing them into a replacement might tip the balance toward replacing the engine.

 

[Cstoliker]

I am very surprised that it is hard to find that engine since it has been used in so many vehicles and for such a very long time. Have you tried looking into using one from a Mustang, Ranger, newer Explorer etc.? All you would need to do is swap the 2000 Explorer specific parts from your engine to the replacement. The condition of the body would play a big role in whether I would try to save it. If it has any amount of rocker panel, fender well rust then I would let it go. For $3,300 you could find a very decent 3rd gen Explorer with lower miles than the one you currently have.

Lastly, if you need the upgrades you have done to this vehicle then pricing them into a replacement might tip the balance toward replacing the engine.

Yea I am surprised too. They are not exactly rare engines. 3 different shops all came back with the same 150k motor available. If I sourced one myself they would not warranty it.
It took me a long time to find this truck. Did not want anything newer then 2nd gen as every subsequent generation got farther and farther away from being actual Trucks and started turning into the minivan for soccer moms we see today.

 

[94Eddie]

Does their warranty cover all the labor if it needs to be replaced? If it does then that is worth a lot. Another option is to find another 2nd gen to buy and then swap your custom parts to it. It you could find one with a 5.0L engine then that would be a great upgrade. Especially since the 5.0L engines last a very long time if properly maintained. Also, repairing them is far less costly since they are pushrod motors.

 

[donalds]

A remanufactured engine =s2500
Had mine installed $1000
Just saying then you know what ya got
And they will deliver it to your house or shop of your choice

 

[RandomNerd2000]

That's a nice truck, I'd fix that even with the cost, these trucks will hold together pretty well rotted in half, and if you trust it, you can't buy that. You also for the price of rebuilding the entire drivetrain won't find anything as good IMO. I've got a 4.0 here I need to put up on the stand and put new guides in, it's got 136K miles on it, nice motor condition wise but no way I'd install it as is. I would say I can be talked out of it but I want to eventually find myself another SOHC truck to just try out.

 

[Cstoliker]

I would love to do the v8 swap but I don’t think it’s a realistic possibility.if I could get that done for under 4K I’d be all over it.
The used motor replacement does come with parts & labor warranty. I will need to go talk to the shop in person and make sure before I tow it down there (if I decide to)
The truck is not rust free (not by a long shot) the body panels do have rust but it has not yet progressed past the plastic trim so it effectively invisible for the time being. But cancer only spreads.

Some of you may have noticed a red LED above the 4wd shift knob. It is connected to the TCC through a 12v zener diode. When the “brown wire” get close to 12v it will light up allowing me to see in real time when the transfer case locks when In 4wd auto.

 

[Stic-o]

You could do a V8 swap for under 4k if you did it yourself. But it's a time and skill set thing. I just swapped a 2000 SOHC into a 1991. Most people think I'm crazy, but it only has a 103k on the motor and runs great. I would have done a V8, but I had the a full SOHC donor with a totaled body, so why not. Plus I know just made a V8 swap easy in the future. Just need the engine wiring harness, computer, and drivetrain. Plug and play.

 

[Cstoliker]

You could do a V8 swap for under 4k if you did it yourself. But it's a time and skill set thing. I just swapped a 2000 SOHC into a 1991. Most people think I'm crazy, but it only has a 103k on the motor and runs great. I would have done a V8, but I had the a full SOHC donor with a totaled body, so why not. Plus I know just made a V8 swap easy in the future. Just need the engine wiring harness, computer, and drivetrain. Plug and play.

It’s the drivetrain that scares me. Also it’s about 5 degrees (f) with 2.5 feet of snow and I don’t have a garage. :-(

 

[J_C]

I hate to state this now, but it is a situation I've faced with my '98 with the SOHC.

The SOHC, and tranny (which I don't think is nearly as fail as some suggest), caused me not to invest in upgrades. I knew if I did, I would come to this point where you are now.

You stated "only replacement engine in area", well I would either expand the area and pay freight, or since that few miles on this age engine is a rare bird, get a reman engine, or harvest your upgrades and put them into a 5.0L Explorer.

No way would I pay $3300 to put a 150K SOHC engine in. The warranty? Meh if they can't source an engine with less than 150K mi., what would they do to remedy the warranty?

Then again if the choices are what you're facing, I would not be so opposed to a newer generation explorer if you don't need offroading. You have the lift and the tires but didn't really go into that. 3rd and 4th gen explorers are still full framed vehicles so they are trucks, but handle a heck of a lot better due to the independent rear suspension, and don't sacrifice much if anything in towing, though you do have the manual tranny.

Ultimately being someone who also deals with vehicle rust (they salt the roads here as a precaution, sometimes it doesn't even snow, lol), I can't consider it a good candidate to spend thousands of dollars on. I've had my share of fighting rust and don't see 3 years (engine warranty) as enough time to mean anything. That's just 3 years further it rusts and you're back where you started.

I suppose my point is, $3300 for 3 years (unless you're accepting upcoming rust repair with open arms including the frame which may look fine now but WILL need work if you intend to keep towing 5K lbs with it) is a larger $/yr than a newer Explorer or sourcing one from a dryer, warmer climate so you don't have as much rust decay yet.

This is all subject to a number of variables. If you can weld, and you have scrap steel lying around, and/or you don't care if it ends up color matching for exterior body work, there's a lot of latitude in what is possible to make it seem cost effective to keep it running.

However let's step back a moment and consider that if you are needing a 5K7 lb tow vehicle, it is time to stop barely making it and upgrade to a larger SUV (or crew cab/etc pickup). This might be exactly the time to realize that. Your rusting frame isn't getting any stronger.

Never have I heard anyone who tows 5K lbs state "I wish I had a smaller vehicle".

 

[koda2000]

@Cstoliker - I found myself in a similar position with my 180,000 mile '01 SOHC Sport Trac. I bought it almost 5 years ago, for next to nothing, as a non-runner. I installed a new fuel pump and got it running and then the fun began fixing a long (and I mean LONG) list of problems this poor truck had. I finally got everything fixed and drove it as my daily driver for 4+ years, during which time it developed the dreaded "timing chain death rattle". It finally blew a head gasket last winter and I parked it. Today the engine sits in my garage disassembled, awaiting rebuilding. I had to really think about putting cash into this money pit, but in the end I decided to rebuild the engine myself. My decision was heavily weighted in the fact that mine is a Sport Trac and not a common 4-door or Sport. If it wasn't the more valuable Sport Trac I never would have bought a another SOHC Explorer (I've had 2 others) but there was no alternative engine available in the ST in 2001. For me the decision to rebuilt my ST's engine was a coin flip. Either way It's going to cost me $2500 'ish and in the end I'll still have a vehicle with a ticking time bomb of an engine due to the fragile timing chain components. I really don't know if I'm making the right decision putting more money into this vehicle, but I guess I enjoy the challenge. I was going to fix it and give it to my daughter, but I've bought her another vehicle, which she loves, so I don't know what will eventually become of the Sport Trac.

If you just had a run-of-the-mill 4-door I'd say junk it and move on, but because you've invested so much time and effort into your modifications you have to decide whether to replace/rebuild the engine (costs are about the same) or look for something else. My advise would be to look for a V8 and transfer your mods over.

I wouldn't look for a "low mileage" used SOHC replacement engine, because you have no way of knowing what the actual mileage of a used engine is and they all eventually need to have their timing chain components replaced. As stated, a warranty is pretty much meaningless on a used engine.

JMO.

 

[Cstoliker]

Transferring what I have into a V8 is not something I want to do. Let’s not forget the V8 explorers are AWD. Only the v6 came with 4wd.
My truck does go off-road often. It’s seen more air time then the space shuttle. Its been on fire and underwater in the same day. (I dove it in a swamp to put out the fire) so the 4wd is a must.
Thought about upgrading to an Expedition or something but the short wheel base is one of the things that make these so capable off road.
Just talked to the shop in person. The 3 year warranty covers only the Block and heads. Accessory’s like alternator or water pump are not covered.

 

[94Eddie]

No way would I pay $3300 to put a 150K SOHC engine in. The warranty? Meh if they can't source an engine with less than 150K mi., what would they do to remedy the warranty?

The labor cost to install an engine should be around $1,000 to $1,200. This means they are charging $2,000-$2,300 to buy a used engine with 150k miles on it. This is a colossal overcharge for a used engine, IMO. I just checked online and found dozens of 4.0L SOHC engines with around 100k miles for between $700-$1,000 which includes shipping. This would make me be suspect of this shop and seems they are charging $1,000 for a warranty they may, or may not, honor. I would ask them to quote a price for installing a remanufactured engine because for $3,300 this price should cover installation and purchase of a completely rebuilt motor. This engine will have a warranty too and have a much better chance of lasting 150k-200k miles with good maintenance. It would probably outlast the rest of the vehicle.

 

[donalds]

Believe me I understand the want need love you have for the truck
After all I rebuilt mine only because I have a rust free truck
My advice if there is rust just get a new rig of the same gen and transfer your mods
If your gonna have a mechanic do it imo that's a huge risk and cost

If you can't do all the work yourself then shop for a new ride
I don't think he is going to change all the parts like thermostat and it's housing.. hoses ..injector o rings... gaskets..and any other parts that get broken

My last engine lasted 285k miles
If you do fix it install a pre oiler then never worry about timing guilds again

 

[koda2000]

I agree that pre-oilers are a must for these engine.

 

[Cstoliker]

Thanks all. I found another local shop (hidden in the bushes) that’s willing to do the swap for $1k labor plus cost of engine (estimated $1k).
I can justify putting $2k into my $1500.00 rig (it worth more then that to me). Tow truck is on the way (& yes it too is a Ford, I checked)

 

[koda2000]

Thanks all. I found another local shop (hidden in the bushes) that’s willing to do the swap for $1k labor plus cost of engine (estimated $1k).
I can justify putting $2k into my $1500.00 rig (it worth more then that to me). Tow truck is on the way (& yes it too is a Ford, I checked)

I wish you the best of luck with this.

 

[J_C]

Seems more reasonable, though I hope that estimate includes putting new timing chains, guides, tensioners on. Definitely do that even if it's extra.