Discussion in 'Stock 2002 - 2005 Explorers' started by jd4242, July 19, 2016.
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What did he say was wrong with the pistons?
Idk if you remember the pictures i posted but 6 had scuff marks on the skirts and SLIGHT valve contact marks..
The skirts concerned me at first too but many shops said they were ok and i had a shop knock any high spots down and coat the skirts..he also balanced all 8 before coating..2 were brand new and they got the valves first and locked the motor up..
They coating filled all the scuffs and all the ring lands up all looked perfectly fine other than SLIGHT exhaust valve marks..
Let me find pictures
If he said a measurement is off on the pistons, like piston diameter or ring groove clearance etc, then I might believe him until you have time to check them yourself. If he just said they look bad then tell him to go pound sand.
Here was the WORSE one..the rest really didnt have 1/3 of "depth" or marks..he coated this one very thick and once the coating worn down some it would almost be level to the rest of the skirt..he balanced all 8 before coating and check for roundness/size/ring lands of the used 6 used ones..the valve contact you really cant feel but can see when heald at perfect angle..
The worse ones..
And the rest cant even see them..
I would trust the shop who i sent them too way more than my guy..they checked all 6 for roundness, diameter and grooves etc etc..all they build is mod motors and had NOTHING to gian by bs me..
That's what I'd do, find a shop that builds those a lot, and trust their judgment. If your shop owes you something in some way that you want to use them still, contact the owner or highest management, and agree on the condition of the pistons. It sounds like the man who said he wouldn't want those pistons in his build, isn't the head guy. Make an agreement with the right guy, even organizing a talk with an expert on those modular engines, and those pistons.
So unfortunately i went to pick up the stuff and talked with the owner and lead machinists. .i gave in and felt bad for them to a point but definitely expressed i was not happy and this was their last chance..
He had the heads done,block cleaned and parts all layed out..said the crank looks like it has infact been balanced and just needs a polish..he again stressed he doesnt suggest i use the 6 used pistons but said many many have and would..i stressed that each bore needed to be honed to a specific piston to get the correct PTW and he said thats one of the reasons he doesnt suggest i reuse them but would..he stressed that this would take much longer than if all the pistons fell within the same spec..
He also stressed that with all the problems i have had with this motor that he wouldnt use used parts and that im risking it doing so..i just take this as him coving his ass this time by having an excuse to blame problems on since he can't find one with the heads,which he still wants to blame the rings/block even though the owner and lead both saw and agreed oil shouldnt have been running down the guides like it was..he also swear he vacuum tested the ports but that it really would show issues with the guides unless they were extremely bad,which they didnt look to be but cant explain oil running down them..hes put new bronze guides and seals in it..
Said should be done probably Monday given he has to take extra time honning and needs to order main/rod bearings
What kind of guides were in there the last time?
I can understand the CYA syndrome, used parts would probably make anyone nervous.
I'm hoping the problem was minor and this time taken care of, whether it was their fault or a part's. I know you'd like to know what it was, but if it is okay this time, I'd take it as a shame but good karma in the end. Murphy's law kind of applies to tons of things every day. We(I do) just hope that the good evens out with the bad. So fingers crossed, I hope the engine is flawless from now on.
Originally i took the heads to him for the famous bad or lose valve seats..had low compression on #7 ....he did hardened seats,SI SS valves, bronze guide inserts,new seals,deck and valve job..charged me $900ish..it smoked from then on...took heads off and had him check them and said looked good,only did seals..smoked..blamed rings..took heads off,pan off,pistons out,cleaned pistons,honed,new rings and put back together. ..smoked afterwards still..drive the piss outa in and threw 3 rod bearings...
When i took the heads off this time you could clearly see oil running down the guide and on the the exhaust valves only..i honestly think he didn't do guides on the exhaust side,he slipped up when i was talking to him and said ""we done what,seats on all and guides on intake and they all look good"" but said he replaced ""all guides and seals""....why would you replace the guides if they ""looked good""...
Idk im just STRESSED
Well guess he got the hint..he called today and said everything was basically done but when he went to gap the rings i supplied which was told were new,were previously gapped..they were new but gapped at like 30 for alot of boost like TT,so he has to order new rings and gap them for my application ..said he'll try to get them overnighted and have it together tomorrow, if not it will be ready monday...
Hopefully he didnt cut any corners and its done right...
That's promising. It seems that the gentle nudging helped. I remember what it was like to try to get a machine shop to finish engine parts. Sometimes the race guys take priority and slow down the average customer.
Well motor is FINALLY done..picking up in the morning. Going to try and test the heads if i can.if they pass ill start putting it back together but if not,its going to be a couple more weeks...
Fingers crossed i can test them and they test good!!!
We're all hoping it's going to be right this time. Crossed fingers,
Some of the valves are not sealing,you can clearly see light through them..also he ise what looks like Vaseline on the guides/valve and im willing to bet it will cause enough seal for me to not be able to pull oil down them..
But the valves need to seal before i can even test that..
Also some of my lifters i can push in with my fingers,swore i read these you shouldnt be able to do that..
First one ''seemed"" ok..held vacuum but leaked down pretty much right away slowly. .15lb leaked in about 10sec
Love your head test setup. Awesome!
Sorry about the results. I hope his block work was better.
Well the block is done by a different guy there..but yea im definitely worried..im gonna pull the caps and at least check the bearing clearances.
I dont have a way to check bore or PTW..the honing looks good though. .
I honestly debating taking the whole thing to this other shop around the corner, they do realy good work but are super pricey ..im taking the heads there in the morning and see what they will charge me to do a good valve job,open up the valve inlets,clean up the casting in the ports,true full bronze guides (not inserts) and deck them a little to raise compression from 9.8-1 to 10.5-1
I'm learning that if a shop is really good, spend the money. Way cheaper in the end.
Yep..just sucks because I've known this guy forever and never had issues with his work EXCEPT on these heads..hes got a new guy that just SUCKS. .he needs to get ride of him before it really hurts his business or name..
Hes lost mine now
Dropped heads off at new shop..guy really knew what he was talking about,knew what i was gonna ask before i asked and knew numbers that took me weeks to find off top of his head
I ran into problems when trying to install the Explorer starter. The housing around the starter teeth interferes with the flexplate. Below are photos of my Explorer type of starter.
The interference with the flexplate occurs at the 2 o'clock to 7 o'clock positions in the above photo. I'm confident that I didn't install the flexplate incorrectly unless the sticker on the flexplate stating "engine side" was on the wrong side. I suspect the problem is due to the thicker flexplate and a different offset. I did some cursory part number comparisons and learned that the Explorer and Aviator starters have the same part numbers. I also learned that the Mustang Mach 1 and GT have the same part numbers but different than the Explorer/Aviator. The photos below show the Mustang starter type.
Both starter types have 12 teeth and rotate clockwise but I need to do more research before buying one to try. I want to confirm the flexplate number of teeth on the Mustangs are the same as my flexplate.
Excellent thank you for the updates
Well my heads are definitely more ****ed up than first thought. .he's shocked any of the valves were seating or sealing. .said looks like he did a valve job with a Dremel ..he said the guides looked like he used a standard old hand drill with twist bit...
He's gonna do a valve job,open up the intake throats to 90%,open up the exhaust to 85% of valve size, clean up the casting, put new full bronze guides and deck the head .020 to bump compression back up to 10.5:1
I did start on the block today,i checked all the clearances and they appear to be within spec. The aluminum block calls for .0010-.0020 and id say im around .0017ish
Im working on getting the gt500 pan gasket/windage tray installed right now.ill post some pics soon
It fit..only thing i needed to do was bend the baffles in the pan down..the boundary pump uses a 3v pickup otherwise i would've had to trim the baffles off the pick up and slightly trim the windage tray..