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06 Mountaineer No Spark after changing Gaskets..

Discussion in 'Stock 2006 -2010 Explorers' started by Thafisher, February 17, 2019.

^^Searches ExplorerForum.com^^





  1. Thafisher

    Thafisher Active Member

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    So it all started with what I believed to be a vacuum leak. Although I couldn't seem to find it anywhere, then I came across lots of people saying that it was common for the Intake Manifold Gaskets to leak and cause a vacuum leak. So that's what I set out to change.

    After hours of actually getting to the gaskets I got them changed and good to go. I put it all back together very carefully to make sure I didn't miss a thing. (Which I've since checked over multiple times) Now all of the sudden it won't start. It cranks, but won't start at all.

    I've tried starting it with starter fluid to no avail, so I figured it was a spark issue. I checked for spark on both sides and don't seem to be getting any spark at all. Any ideas?

    Before you give your opinions, consider the fact that it started 3 days ago just fine, every single time I cranked it. It just ran very, very poorly.
    I've been told a few different things. All by working mechanics.
    One told me it could be the Cam Synchronizer, other said it could be my VCT sensor, (Don't think so).
    From my own research I'm leaning towards Crankshaft Position Sensor, although I didn't work ANYWHERE near it, so how would me changing the gaskets do anything to the CKS?
    Thanks!


    This has been fixed. The spark wasn't present because of a coil on plug fuse was blown. Now there's a new problem. New Problem Post
     
    Last edited: March 10, 2019
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  3. Thafisher

    Thafisher Active Member

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    Now I've changed the Crank Position Sensor and it still won't start. Any Ideas?
     
  4. D Hook

    D Hook Elite Explorer

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    Any kind of after-market alarm installed?
     
  5. boominXplorer

    boominXplorer Elite Ranger Elite Explorer

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    What codes did you have before?

    Since you mentioned vct I assume you have the V8. If you sprayed starter fluid and it didn't cough like it wanted to start your either missing ignition or throttle body isn't opening. Check both cam sensors and both throttle body plugs. Most importantly I want the codes you had before.
     
  6. Thafisher

    Thafisher Active Member

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    No and I've made sure the security system hasn't been tripped..
     
  7. Thafisher

    Thafisher Active Member

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    I've tried to start it with starter fluid and it didn't do anything. I've realized that I'm not getting any spark to any of the coils/plugs. So it's a no spark condition. How would I go about checking the cam sensors? Just making sure they're connected properly? Or is there a way to actually check them.
    Also, here are the codes I had before.

    IMG_20190302_180734052.jpg
     
  8. CharlieK9

    CharlieK9 New Member

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    The crankshaft position and both camshaft positions are required for the PCM to trigger a spark. You can at least check the connector to the new sensor for broken wires etc. As your original codes were related to that sensor, I would concentrate on it. I have an OBDLINK MX bluetooth OBD adapter for my phone. The OBDLINK software has extra features available for Fords @ $9.99. Or the Forescan app is free, both can probably let you check those sensors, both the value and the state, I'll try to look for them on my 2010XLT.
     
  9. Thafisher

    Thafisher Active Member

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    Ok so being the fact that I already changed the Crank Sensor, could it possibly be cam sensors? Also, I have 2 cam sensors, what are the odds they both quit? Or do they stop functioning when one does?
    The engine wouldn't start after pulling the top intake manifold gasket off. I shouldn't have interfered with the wires going to the Crank sensor, even though I changed it a few days ago anyways. The wires seemed fine. I'm leaning away from Crank Sensor now.
    What do you recommend? I don't have an OBD adapter/scanner on hand at the moment.
     
  10. CharlieK9

    CharlieK9 New Member

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    Sorry, I had DOHC on my mind. Only one cam sensor. What I meant by checking the connector is to check that power +5V and Ground are present on the connector. You can use a volt meter or a test lamp. The signal will be a frequency when the shaft is turning, if you meter supports frequency you might see it there. Try to find some videos on youtube for testing sensor, all the wires go back to the Power Control Module so it is important to verify. Same with the crankshaft position sensor. I think that I would start there. These are critical signals for spark and fuel injection. It could just be a pre-existing or coincidence... Good luck.

    The codes may actually indicate a timing chain problem. One or more may have skipped a tooth.
    I hope this is not the case. Have you heard any rattling from the TC?


    Screenshot_20190302-201037.jpg
     
    Last edited: March 2, 2019
  11. Thafisher

    Thafisher Active Member

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    Yea I thought it could've possibly been a timing issue. But the reason I was leaning away from that is because it would start just fine every time, up until I changed the intake manifold gaskets. But no, I haven't heard a chain rattling noise. So I'm hoping it's not that.
    I'm gonna check for power to the connectors. I'll post the results.
     
  12. CharlieK9

    CharlieK9 New Member

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    On the thought of timing, It would be easy to check the two hydraulic timing chain tensioners. On startup they rely on an internal spring until oil pressure builds. One could be stuck. I think it is a 22mm wrench.
     
  13. Thafisher

    Thafisher Active Member

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    Ok I will have to pull the valve covers off, then I can at least see if there's any slack in the chain. But before we jump to checking that, do you think that one bad cam sensor would stop spark? Being the fact that there's two of them I wouldn't think so but I have no idea.
    I'm tempted to just go grab a cam sensor or 2 being only 20$ and a quick swap. Here's my thoughts:
    The truck ran with symptoms that almost pointed to a failing cam sensor. (Loss of Acceleration, Loss of MPG, etc.) Then after I pull it all apart and change the intake manifold gaskets it will no longer start. (No spark) So could it be possible that I just finished off one of the sensors by bumping it or something? Or maybe even when I pulled the wire harness to allow room to pull of the intake manifold.
    I don't want to look at timing just yet, just because of the way it happened.
    What do you think?
     
  14. boominXplorer

    boominXplorer Elite Ranger Elite Explorer

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    With that laundry list of codes I'd check compression on one of the first cylinders on each side. I think you have a least 1 phaser out of time.
     
  15. Thafisher

    Thafisher Active Member

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    I have been meaning to do a compression test for a while actually and I will do that in a few days hopefully. Would that stop it from getting spark though? Because at this point I'm just trying to regain spark to start..
    Also keep in mind that it happened so suddenly. Almost as if I pulled something loose somewhere. Even though I can't find anything..
    I don't know anything about the phasers. But I suppose it being out of time would stop spark.
    The only thing is, it literally stopped starting after I changed the intake manifold gaskets.
     
    Last edited: March 4, 2019
  16. CharlieK9

    CharlieK9 New Member

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    I have been lurking on this forum for 2 years, and you are only my 2nd response, and I have the 4.0 V6 which has a single coil pack.Why did you suspect a vacuum leak? Having said that;
    What engine do you have? New or used?, How many miles? Service history? It may have nothing to do with your work if it was running crappy before,
    Its easy to shoot the messenger (in this case the sensor). But these particular sensors are very simple, but I guess they can fail. The 2nd and 3rd code indicate a timing problem which may have been there before. The timing chain is one component, but the VCT solenoid and phasers are the second. It is actively adjusting the timing as you drive. My Subaru has VCT and I had to deal with it a while back. Also note from the codes it is bank 1 so you can limit it to one side.
    I would recommend you spend $30 to $40 on a cheap OBD reader or $60 to $80 on a good bluetooth OBD adapter like OBDLINK or BlueDriver. This will not be the last time you will use it.
    Also check out these videos on Youtube. Brian does a great job explaining and showing how to work on fords.
    FordTechMakuloco
    Search for Continuous Variable Timing

    Hang in there, you can find it.

    And to answer your question, I do believe there could be an engine protection feature applied under these conditions to suppress spark and fuel. No proof though.
     
    Last edited: March 4, 2019
  17. Thafisher

    Thafisher Active Member

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    Well I appreciate the response a ton! I suspected the vacuum leak because of all the lean codes and misfires, along with the way it was running. I was never able to find a leak though. I ended up finding alot of people having the intake manifold gaskets start leaking after a while and it'll cause a vacuum leak. So in hopes to finally get a little bit of power and acceleration back I replaced the gaskets. I had to pull everything off the top of the manifold, fuel rail, wiring harness, etc. When I put it all back together and went to start it, it just continued to crank, but no start. I immediately checked over everything. I even pulled the manifold back off so I could just go back over everything and double check connections. (Just to give a full understanding)
    I have the 4.6 V8 3V - 2006 Mercury Mountaineer.
    I bought it from someone who neglected it. (spark plugs were loose, some plugs unplugged, all kinds of stuff was ignored)
    About 200,000 miles, and I've never had it serviced in a shop yet.
    It was running terribly before. I didn't even take it on trips further than a few miles, mainly because it nearly wouldn't accelerate at all, and when it would it was really slow. (It recently got that bad) Before it got to that point, it was just sluggish.
    When you say it indicates a timing problem, could that be a failing cam sensor? Or no? Also, bank 1 should be driver side, correct?
    I'm actually thinking before I go ahead and buy the cam sensor I'm just going to order the 60$ OBD MX.
    But if those two timing codes could be from a Cam Sensor then I'd just go ahead and swap it out.

    -Edit-
    Those codes are all from when it was running. Now when I scan it, I get no codes.
     
  18. Thafisher

    Thafisher Active Member

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    Ok, I just was checking it out and have realized I'm not getting power to the cam sensors. I probed them both with a test light while trying to start the car and it doesn't light up. The ground is good though. ?
     
  19. CharlieK9

    CharlieK9 New Member

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    Interesting. I know you said you read no codes, so I assume the PCM has power. To be sure, you should see the check engine light come on for a few seconds when you turn the key on. If not, check the fuses.
    Otherwise have fun chasing the wires, hope it works.
     
  20. Thafisher

    Thafisher Active Member

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    Well, what do ya know.. It was as simple as it could get and right in front of my eyes. Apparently there's a fuse for the coil on plugs and mine was blown. I couldn't believe it, being the fact that I looked over the fuses once. I swapped the fuse and it started right up.
    I drove it around the neighborhood and got it to about 45 once and brought it back home (It was late).
    Today, I wokeup and went to drive it again and got a few roads down from my house and it started stalling. It shut off so I started it back up and drove another few feet where it stalled again. It was stalling almost like a gas issue, but not for sure. After that last few feet it was done, everytime I start it now it will stall after a few seconds. I can delay the stalling a little bit by pressing the gas pedal.
    The only code I'm getting now is a few ignition coil codes and a p0016. I don't think that code is responsible for the stalling being the fact that I've had that code in the past.
    Lights also flicker as it's stalling out, but it has enough battery to start back up no problem.
    Also went and bought a scan tool, it shows freeze frame data so if anyone knows what to look for feel free to let me know.
     
  21. CharlieK9

    CharlieK9 New Member

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    First get that oil cleaner up. Do a long drain, and maybe use something like BG engine restorer and.synthetic oil. It.will take a few.changes.
    Worst case, chunky oil can destroy rod bearings etc. Then its over.
    Clean oil needed for CVT to operate properly.
     

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