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1st gen Batch Fire Injection to Sequential electronic injection swap

Discussion in 'Modified 1991-1994 Explorers' started by jd4242, October 1, 2014.

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  1. 2000StreetRod

    2000StreetRod Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    AFR meter?

    Do you have an AFR meter? If so, then you should see the AFR cycling back and forth from slightly rich to slightly lean at idle and when at a constant vehicle speed on level terrain. That's an indication that the PCM is in closed loop.

    I agree with Carguy3J that EGR is a good thing - lower maximum combustion chamber temperatures and improved fuel economy. But I also dislike the buildup left in the intake system from the exhaust gases. I wish I could purchase or build a compact, effective particle trap for EGR. Perhaps the buildup on the M90 rotors will replace their worn coating and increase my boost.
     
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  3. jd4242

    jd4242 Explorer Addict

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    Yea ive got a wideband.

    On gm m90 its introduced after the charger..pre-charger isnt a good thing..it increases heat in the charger and that build up on the blades causes friction. ..also if you have an intercooler it can clog the fins...:thumbdwn:
     
  4. 2000StreetRod

    2000StreetRod Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    post charger

    That's very interesting and I would like to learn more about the implementation. I wonder what happens during boost. If the boost pressure exceeds the EGR back pressure is there airflow in the opposite direction? I guess that could be prevented by adjusting the tune to close the EGR valve at an ECM computed load that corresponds to boost. Or there could be a check valve that prevents airflow in the opposite direction.
     
  5. 2000StreetRod

    2000StreetRod Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    10 pin connector

    That looks like a nice watertight connector and the price is cheap but I wouldn't be willing to wait 3 weeks for it to come from the Philippines.
     
  6. jd4242

    jd4242 Explorer Addict

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    :JP:
    Well carguy has scared me so now I think ill plan to do the SEFI swap the week before I do the engine/trans swap..so it wont take place for probably a month or so..
     
  7. malohnes

    malohnes Active Member

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    JD,
    If you have a sideband o2, then you can easily monitor your A/F and know for certain whats happening in your situation with your mods. Much of this is classroom academics vs in the field operation and we all know sometimes they are not always the same. I just can't see a catastrophic failure happening here. What I can see is reduced power, economy or possibly drivability issues.

    I wouldn't say that EGR is bad, but it does introduce certain complexities that we don't have much experience with considering our computers are not as clever as in newer vehicles. This can be advantageous.

    I'm going to try and go this route soon, myself. But my engine is nowhere near your level of mods.
     
    Last edited: October 5, 2014
  8. jd4242

    jd4242 Explorer Addict

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    Ill post some info after I do it and let you know.I dont plan to put egr on and run with the cel on for a week
     
  9. Carguy3J

    Carguy3J Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes, by the time you see an indication of a problem, its too late. Damage may already be done. Also, a wideband o2 does nothing to monitor timing changes in real time; which can be just as dangerous or more so, then an improper a/f ratio.

    You are partially correct, in that theory does not always pan out in actual practice. That is not really the case here. Yes, there are some unknowns, which I don't have the answer to; such as whether or not an EGR related failure code triggers a "limp" mode condition in this particular ecm/strategy. I don't know the answer, but there are people who do. It is very much worth finding out, before risking a perfectly good, expensive, engine.
    Further, there isn't a whole lot of unresolved "mystery" in how EGR functions. Its pretty much a known, long since "proven", theory. It is also known what other changes must be made, in the real world, when EGR is implemented. (Which I understand JD doesn't intend to use. However, until tuned, his "new" ecm will be expecting it to be there, and will "act" accordingly.)

    Then you fail to "see" how EGR functions, and how a number of other engine parameters are related to it. EGR gas replaces fresh air/fuel charge in the cylinder. So, the greater the EGR flow, the less fuel is injected. Also, more EGR = more timing. So, if the ecm is expecting egr flow for a given driving condition, but doesn't actually get it, then the a/f ratio can go extremely lean. At the same time, timing will be substantially advanced. This will = BOOM in a hurry. It depends on how the ecm reacts to an egr failure. If its "smart" enough to realize there is no EGR flow, and adjusts accordingly, then fine. Everything will be good; life will go on as scheduled. If not, and it continues to supply fuel and spark as though the non-existent EGR was still there and functioning, then things will go bad, fast.

    Also, so-called "driveability" issues are not something to be ignored. Just "living with" supposedly minor issues can quickly lead to not only sever engine damage, but possible damage to other systems.
     
  10. jd4242

    jd4242 Explorer Addict

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    Well just got bad news from my tuner....he doesnt have the program code to tune the ecm code YAM1.he contacted SCT and they dont have it either...

    He suggested I switch to a earlier ecm like what was in my explorer. .why in the word would he want me to go back to a batch fire, single O2 system. .....having two O2s, cam sensor and sefi all make for easier tuning and safer system. .just doesnt make sense SCT wouldnt have the code..:( I dont know what to do now...

    Anyone know what ecm or what code the 94 4.0 manual ranger uses?? So I can check if he even has the code for whats in it now..
     
  11. malohnes

    malohnes Active Member

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    Well met Carguy.

    Forgive me if I have minimized your knowledge and experience as it is not intended.

    Well, you are correct, I do have limited experience with EGR systems. You've got good points considering JD has boost and other mods that all ready test the stock ECM system.

    Based on what I have experienced in my truck, on a stock and then increasingly modified engine, the wideband sensor I have reacts immediately to changes in engine running condition. That was the whole point to having it. Another diagnostic tool to watch for engine related issues. I don't have a scanner with real time abilities, and a tool like Scangauge doesn't work with OBD1. But, I have watched my wideband show all sorts of interesting conditions in the A/F that I would not have known without it. For example, when I had a vacuum leak at vacuum tree due, a misfire due to swapped plug wires, forgetting to plug in MAS sensor. Every time I had these issues the wideband reflected a response that helped me to locate the remedy. This is not to say that the wideband o2 is the only gauge to watch, but this is part of tuning engine performance in general and monitoring for potential issues, just like other gauges.

    Again, you bring very strong points to consider. And I will be very mindful personally when I begin this trek with my truck. I'm keenly following this thread.
     
  12. jd4242

    jd4242 Explorer Addict

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    Found the code..its HAG0 (<<thats a zero) its on the fender fyi..

    He has emailed me back and told me no other code will work or comes close to (YAM1) besides the cali codes and he cant use them..I emailed him back with the stock code of HAG0 to see if he even has that one, he better !!!:(

    Ps looks like ill have a 94 explorer ECM for sale if anyone wants it:(

    Location of the code
    [​IMG]
     
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  13. jd4242

    jd4242 Explorer Addict

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    He has the program to tune HAG0, the current ecm..he wants me to leave it in and said the differences in having sefi/cam sensor and not having it compared to current ecm, is NOT worth it in my case..he said it wouldn't make any real differences at higher rpms and really over all because of how I drive and use it for..

    Hate to start a thread and NOT finish it..ill post the wiring for the 93 explorer and pin lay out/pin differences when I have a chance to sit down and compare them..this way atleast some with a 90-93 explorer can do this..this swap can still be done to either vehicle but cant be tuned by SCT..all the benefits are there for a stock swap, especially if you use egr..;)
     
  14. 2000StreetRod

    2000StreetRod Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    best laid plans

    I hate it that your best laid plans can't be implemented due to lack of support. I guess we're lucky that there are any custom tunes available since technically they are only for off-road vehicles.
    I anticipate that eventually South Carolina will have annual emissions inspections. I hope that the state will implement them like at least one other state in the Northeast and exempt vehicles beyond a certain age and by then my 2000 Explorer will meet the criteria.
     
  15. jd4242

    jd4242 Explorer Addict

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    Well good new for me...he emailed back and said the current tunes on my SCT chip WILL work with my current ecm no problems...this saves me a ton of MONEY! !!;)

    EDIT...
    now he is confusing me!!! He has said yes three times now but just sent this ...

    ""Yes, as long as you use the same computer that was tuned for the blower. So T2Z1. ""

    T2Z1 is my OLD EXPLORER CODE NOT RANGER!!:(
     
    Last edited: October 8, 2014
  16. Carguy3J

    Carguy3J Well-Known Member

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    I'm confused. Does this mean you are going to be able to run an ecm that supports SEFI? If not, why wouldn't the tune you already have work with the ecm you already have? Or are you using a different ecm? If so, why are you changing ecm's if you already have a working one?
     
  17. jd4242

    jd4242 Explorer Addict

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    I edited it..

    No both my old 92 explorer (T2Z1) and current 94 ranger(HAG0) are both batch fire, only difference is the ranger (HAG0) has a second O2... I was only switching to a 94 explorer (YAM1) to get SEFI but he cant tune it..

    So now the question to him was will the tunes on the chip(tuned for ecm T2Z1) would work on my current ecm (HAG0) or would all new tunes need to be made...there is a big price difference in adjusting the tune if it would swap over or having to write all new tunes..
     
  18. Carguy3J

    Carguy3J Well-Known Member

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    Oh.... Makes more sense now.

    That seems a little ridiculous that SCT can't provide a stock strategy for the SEFI code. Seems to me they should offer to just go ahead and read one off an ecm, and make it available. They clearly have the in house capability to do so. I guess, in your case, having a tuner in the middle, you're kind of limited in your "leverage" If it was me, and I had shelled out the money for a pro-racer package, I would be on the phone all day, every day, demanding it be made available (to SCT, not the tuner).

    What about ditching SCT and a Ford ecm altogether, and going to a stand alone Mega-Squirt ecm? Its supposed to be much more flexible, and has an open architecture, with tons of user/community support. With the mega squirt, you could not only run SEFI, you could even set timing for individual cylinders. Given the inherent design limitations, coupled with the addition of forced induction it was never designed for, you could very easily find that different cylinders want different fuel/timing.
     
  19. jd4242

    jd4242 Explorer Addict

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    I AGREE:mad:

    Originally I was going to do MS.I changed because SCT just was easier at the time..now I have the chip(think i paid $300ish) and like $700 in tunes(it was tuned twice for use of two different pulleys), I would like to keep them but its looking like a $350 complete retune is coming. .a adjustment tune I believe was $150 per hour..
     
  20. jd4242

    jd4242 Explorer Addict

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    Here is the 94 explorer YAM1 ecm if anyone is interested

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  21. malohnes

    malohnes Active Member

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    I have water/meth injection and it seems to help with intake build-up. I only use it on drives after completely warmed up and drive outside the city stop and go traffic. I pulled my upper plenum after 8 months of use and its very clean, unlike pre W/M.
     

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