2011 - 2018 Explorer Power Steering Issue

[peterk9]

Welcome to the Forum TBrooks.
Good to know everyone is okay.

Peter

 

[TBrooks]

Wow. Did you have the recall performed to prevent that issue from occurring? Not sure if 2015s were part of that or not.

Nope, 2015's weren't part of it, which is odd because if they did recall it for 2011-2013 they continued to use the same EPAS.

Rear Toe Link -
Year: 2015 Make: FORD Model: Explorer
Number of Open Recalls: 1

NHTSA Recall Number: opens new window takes away from VIN lookup section>19V435Recall Date: June 10, 2019
Manufacturer Recall Number: 19S17
SUMMARY:
VEHICLES THAT ARE EXPOSED TO FREQUENT FULL REAR SUSPENSION ARTICULATION (JOUNCE AND REBOUND) MAY EXPERIENCE A FRACTURED REAR SUSPENSION TOE LINK.
SAFETY RISK:
A FRACTURE OF A REAR TOE LINK SIGNIFICANTLY DIMINISHES STEERING CONTROL, INCREASING THE RISK OF A CRASH.

 

[TBrooks]

@TBrooks sorry to hear. I have experienced some bad sounding noises and the occasional "weirdness" from my steering also, however, you need to be aware that there is a mechanical connection between the steering wheel and the tires. Even if the EPAS fails, the vehicle is not undrivable. You should be able to safely direct it to the side of the road or highway or onto a safer road. Coincidently the faster you are going the easier it will be to steer. Without EPAS, the steering will act much like an old truck with a manual box where it is much easier to steer at speed and much more difficult and heavy to steer at low speeds, as far as I know it will not "lock up" but it will become heavy and require effort to steer including using force to come out of a turn (can't let it free spin back). Also the vehicle is not Christine and did not attempt to kill your family. It had a failure of a feature. There has been no mandatory recall / replacement of the system because the NHTSA has concluded that the vehicle can be safely controlled in the event of a failure. There is an existing program covering the EPAS and that information would be available on owner.ford.com if it covers your model. I would take it to the dealership and have them pull diagnostic codes. Because you drove it again, they may have cleared those codes, but it is worth a visit to see if they have latched or if there is updated software. If this happens again, take it immediately to a dealer to have them pull the codes.

Looking at your pictures though I can't be certain that it is even EPAS. It may be a failure with the traction control or other system. Thanks for posting though, it is good to be aware with potential issues of newer vehicles.

Information you are talking about only covers model year 2011-2013.

There have been no sounds/weirdness regular or irregular to provide an indication that anything is wrong.

Theory and practice are two different things. In heory pilots can override all electronics when they disable autopilot. You blame the pilots.

Who is christine? The feature failure could have been fatal, it would not have been a result of driver negligence but an electronic/failsafe issue. The fault of the vehicle or a feature on the vehicle.

I don't believe the NHTSA recall process works as fast as you. The rear toe link that financially is significantly less in comparison took 4 years to come up with a recall.

The codes cleared immediately when the vehicle was restarted. I would hope that the ECU keeps some type of history if not- the only way to keep the codes is to leave the vehicle running the entire time as it can't be driven. A tow truck driver isn't going a running vehicle on the bed or hook. We're not keeping the vehicle but theoretically - Assuming the next time it happened the vehicle can be safely stopped -How do you suggest I get a truck that can't be driven with the engine running to the shop?

 

[peterk9]

You should still be able to drive it, although it will be manual, not power steering. Others have managed it with some difficulty.

Peter

 

[03WIExplorerLtd]

You should still be able to drive it, although it will be manual, not power steering. Others have managed it with some difficulty.

Peter

I believe that was the pcm recall I spoke of

 

[TBrooks]

You should still be able to drive it, although it will be manual, not power steering. Others have managed it with some difficulty.

Peter

Not around here. Maybe in the hills of Canada or open Wyoming where you can drive a 5000lb missile and not have to worry about hitting anything.D riving the vehicle knowing the issue... There are numerous posts on here with similar experiences and accidents as a result. Driving this thing is like knowingly telling a guy that is RuPaul wasted its safe for him to drive home.

 

[peterk9]

There was only 1 accident posted that I'm aware of and that was a couple years ago.

Peter

 

[Flying68]

Information you are talking about only covers model year 2011-2013.

There have been no sounds/weirdness regular or irregular to provide an indication that anything is wrong.

Theory and practice are two different things. In heory pilots can override all electronics when they disable autopilot. You blame the pilots.

Who is christine? The feature failure could have been fatal, it would not have been a result of driver negligence but an electronic/failsafe issue. The fault of the vehicle or a feature on the vehicle.

I don't believe the NHTSA recall process works as fast as you. The rear toe link that financially is significantly less in comparison took 4 years to come up with a recall.

The codes cleared immediately when the vehicle was restarted. I would hope that the ECU keeps some type of history if not- the only way to keep the codes is to leave the vehicle running the entire time as it can't be driven. A tow truck driver isn't going a running vehicle on the bed or hook. We're not keeping the vehicle but theoretically - Assuming the next time it happened the vehicle can be safely stopped -How do you suggest I get a truck that can't be driven with the engine running to the shop?

1st Christine is the possessed 1953 Plymouth Fury in the Stephen King novel/movie that goes around killing people.

We are not being dismissive but your 1st post is to complain that the car will kill you, but it managed not to in a dangerous situation, which basically confirmed what we said that an EPAS failure renders the steering assist inoperative but it is still controllable with a much greater effort. There have been a lot of complaints, but NHTSA found only 15 related accidents in its investigation. All resulted in either no or minor damage. As yours is post 2013 the EPAS should have the updated software and should retain any codes. However the picture you took doesn't indicate EPAS, the warning was for Advance Track failure which is only traction control. In any case it needs to go to a dealer for proper diagnostics to be run.

And please don't bring in aircraft into this debate. The safety standards are different and so is the operator training.

In any case if you would like to contribute to the knowledge base of the board, please report back with the determination of the problem from the dealer.

Have a good day.

 

[blwnsmoke]

Not around here. Maybe in the hills of Canada or open Wyoming where you can drive a 5000lb missile and not have to worry about hitting anything.D riving the vehicle knowing the issue... There are numerous posts on here with similar experiences and accidents as a result. Driving this thing is like knowingly telling a guy that is RuPaul wasted its safe for him to drive home.

I have personally driven a failed EPAS on many occasions from the tight windy back roads, onto the highway and navigated through the city streets, tight turns and parking lots to my dealership.

It can be done as it was stated, there is a direct connection from the steering wheel to the front axle to manually turn the wheels. It is much more difficult but there is no "lock up".

There are not numerous posts on here of accidents. There are numerous posts on here of failures and majority were the early years where Ford found the defect in the manufacturing and extended the warranty to those owners.

A blown out tire, a failed water pump, a failed alternator, a dropped valve all could stop the engine immediately and you would be without power steering. One must always be prepared for any type of emergency when driving.

And your car did NOT attempt to kill your family. It is comments like these when one exaggerates that makes people have less sympathy for them.

 

[KayGee]

Whatever. The guy's wife was driving the vehicle with a young child in the backseat on a busy freeway when the power assist went out. It can be a scary and nerve wracking experience if one has never experienced it and can't get the vehicle safely off the road and out of the flow of traffic.. No sense in trying to mitigate that experience and call him out for a bit of hyperbole.

If you want to call people out for stuff there are plenty of really stupid and asinine posts/threads around here to do that in. I can help you in identifying some if you like. ;-)

 

[Mope]

One does not use hyperbole to joke about the death of their wife and child. Blwnsmoke hit the nail on the head.

If the drivetrain locked up and someone was forced to stop in the middle of highway traffic, it is a catastrophic failure and not this issue. This was nearly the *best* possible driving conditions to lose power assisted steering (straight, dry, speed); she simply was not prepared and didn't handle the situation well. That's not a knock on her; many people would be in the same boat - but the claims being made about the event are just wildly exaggerated.

 

[KayGee]

So now he's using hyperbole to joke about the death of wife and son. That is a real pos thing to say and isn't even factually accurate.

So you don't think someone driving down a freeway that suddenly loses power assist shouldn't be surprised/upset/distraught? I've had cars shed serpentine belts and lose steering assist and dashes light up like a Christmas tree and some can be a handful, especially in traffic. An inexperienced driver that isn't expecting it can easily be overwhelmed. Lots of people drive like assholes and won't give an inch. I wasn't there, but I can understand how some would feel after an experience like that.

 

[TBrooks]

1st Christine is the possessed 1953 Plymouth Fury in the Stephen King novel/movie that goes around killing people.

We are not being dismissive but your 1st post is to complain that the car will kill you, but it managed not to in a dangerous situation, which basically confirmed what we said that an EPAS failure renders the steering assist inoperative but it is still controllable with a much greater effort. There have been a lot of complaints, but NHTSA found only 15 related accidents in its investigation. All resulted in either no or minor damage. As yours is post 2013 the EPAS should have the updated software and should retain any codes. However the picture you took doesn't indicate EPAS, the warning was for Advance Track failure which is only traction control. In any case it needs to go to a dealer for proper diagnostics to be run.

And please don't bring in aircraft into this debate. The safety standards are different and so is the operator training.

In any case if you would like to contribute to the knowledge base of the board, please report back with the determination of the problem from the dealer.

Have a good day.

You are correct, when I mentioned the dealer response I mentioned only that they offered to purchase the vehicle. I should have made that clear the option was $2,700 to replace rack/pinion, work was not completed. The tie rod recall was completed.

NHTSA Statistics-

2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee had 20 out of 520 complaints related to steering. 4%
2015 GMC Yukon had 19 out of 309 complaints related to steering. 3%
2015 Dodge Durango had 3 out of 196 complaints related to steering. <1%
2015 Mazda CX-9 had 1 out of 13 complaints related to steering. <1%
2015 Ford Explorer had 127 out of 686 complaints related to steering 19%
2014 Ford Explorer 124 of 700 17%
2016 Ford Explorer 129 of 781 17%

The majority of the first few pages all appear to be the same problem or at least the same symptoms, loss of ability to steer/control the vehicle.
It shouldn't require the driver to have an accident to be a cause for concern, there is a fault that is being ignored.

It is documentation of an event. She stated she could turn the wheel half CM, perhaps she was wrong but the vehicle hardly moved leaving her in the highway. The turbo is inches away from the electrical components that control the system, there is no guarantee even if replaced it won't fail again. I don't believe you should be required to be bear hands strong to drive a family vehicle that you can power through, that is an opinion.

 

[03WIExplorerLtd]

Nobody got hurt, that's all that matters.

 

[jskatt21]

I just received the error message “Power Steering Assist Fault” and I have to say it scared the hell out of me. Luckily I was able to pull over and restart the car and it resolved itself. Is this the same issue others are speaking of and if so what if any options do I have if my VIN doesn’t show any active recalls for this issue?

 

[blwnsmoke]

I just received the error message “Power Steering Assist Fault” and I have to say it scared the hell out of me. Luckily I was able to pull over and restart the car and it resolved itself. Is this the same issue others are speaking of and if so what if any options do I have if my VIN doesn’t show any active recalls for this issue?

Same issue, will probably get worse. I'd go to an independent and supply the part. If you dont have the parallel parking feature, the part is about $680 from a discount for parts site and a couple hours of labor, plus alignment and Ford will need to program it once installed.

 

[peterk9]

I just received the error message “Power Steering Assist Fault” and I have to say it scared the hell out of me. Luckily I was able to pull over and restart the car and it resolved itself. Is this the same issue others are speaking of and if so what if any options do I have if my VIN doesn’t show any active recalls for this issue?

Is this on your 2000 Explorer? I'm guessing the steering system is likely different than the 5th gen.

Peter

 

[jskatt21]

Is this on your 2000 Explorer? I'm guessing the steering system is likely different than the 5th gen.

Peter

Sorry, no, this is my 2011 Ford Explorer. I have to update my profile.

 

[jskatt21]

Same issue, will probably get worse. I'd go to an independent and supply the part. If you dont have the parallel parking feature, the part is about $680 from a discount for parts site and a couple hours of labor, plus alignment and Ford will need to program it once installed.

When you say Ford will need to program this, is that something they would do if not installed by them? And if so, does that mean I would have to drive to them after it’s installed without power steering?

 

[blwnsmoke]

When you say Ford will need to program this, is that something they would do if not installed by them? And if so, does that mean I would have to drive to them after it’s installed without power steering?

They will reflash it for you but I am sure will charge you an hour of labor. May want to see what they would charge for install first if you supply it. You can get them far cheaper online than a dealer will charge you unless they bbn are willing to price match.

From my understanding, the EPAS will not function till programmed for the vehicle. Could an independent do it, possibly if they have the proper software.