2nd gen Explorer V8 headers

i am frustrated with Bob of TMH. i have been trying to get him to build me a set of his newest edition, the 1-1/2 to 1-5/8 stepped headers for my Mounty. we have talked on numerous occasions over the last 4 months and i still have no real date. communication is terrible. he has never called me back and 1 out of 10 times i try to call, he picks up. to his credit, he told me he wouldnt take a penny or promise shipment until he had a perfect set of headers. but i am putting my new engine in in 1 month and i need some friggin headers and the standard TM's won't flow enough.

well, necessity is the mother of invention, so i decided to come up with my own design. i did this before on my 351w based mounty project and it turned out well, so i thought i would give it a go with the 302 engine. so, i started by measuring and building the engine and engine bay obstructions in CAD. then, i designed my headers in 3D. gotta say they are pretty nice! i used a 1-5/8 primary to a 4 in 1 collector with a 2-1/2 exit, 2 bolt flange and a ball flange gasket donut. they exit near where the stockers do, but without a set of stockers in hand, measuring through the wheel well openings is the best i could do. doesn't really matter, because to take advantage of these headers, i will need a custom 2-1/2 y-pipe. the pipes all run down from the head flange. none of this up and over crap and no 2 piece bolt together primaries.

i am very satisfied with the clearances around parts and there are no kinks around the steering shaft. the DS header should go in easy enough with only disconnecting the steering shaft from the column and swinging it out. the PS header may be more difficult. hard to tell without actually trying it. it may have to go in from below by removing the starter, which wouldnt be so bad. the only sticky point is i dont think the dipstick will route through its normal path, but a SN95 mustang dipstick might work. easy enough to mess with after the fact.

ok, so my question here is would anyone be interested in buying a set of these for their 2nd gen? it would be nice to have an alternative to TMH, but i won't put in the extra effort to test, productionize and have them professionally built if there aren't any takers. this isn't a call for money or commitment, just an indication of potential customers. i will do my best to keep prices in line with the competition, so plan on 700-800 for a set with all the hardware and gaskets. maybe even a new dipstick and tube if needed. 1 size will fit all for these head flanges...same as every other aftermarket mustang header on the market. i think even the bung for EGR would be there regardless. i would just sell a longer flexible EGR tube separately (since the location would be farther away than the stocker).

here are some teaser pics of the model...

 

[CDW6212R]

That was wise thinking to avoid the 98 computer. If you read any of the swap threads here, we have been figuring out how many changes occurred in each model. People trying to swap a 98-01 Explorer PCM into a non Explorer have had a hell of a time. The VSS signal and different ABS modules themselves, sensors, all involve special 98-01 wiring. That is all besides the PATS issues people are familiar with.


You may be able to use a late 97 PCM to keep using the elbow etc, that you already had to use. I've started to research part numbers to see which computers were used in the 97 Explorers, and if they may be able to run either EGR system, the different sensors etc.

Before the recent swap threads began discussing the problems in certain vehicles, it wasn't clear how much is different in the 96/97 computers, from the later PCM's with PATS.

 

[Spas]

I'm clearly the slowest here to get anything done to my truck

*Ahem* I believe I hold that record, dear Going on 7 years now and my 347 is slowly rusting itself to death on its stand

i got the engine and trans in yesterday. i have most of the engine bay back together. its so nice to be working with new parts (i replaced every hose, line, the radiator, every component of the a/c system, etc). i had been spending some time trying to mimic the vac lines from the explorer upper on my systemax upper. it turned out pretty well and the upper is attached. next, i need to work on the intake elbow. i made one for the 408 that gives a 75mm ID to match my 75mm TB. it was for the 98 mounty and this is an early 97, so the egr is different. i havent decided whether to remake it or modify it for the internal EGR plumbing (not that any exhaust will flow through it anyhow...the heads don't have the ports).

Puffer, would do you have any pictures of your vac line setup? I have a systemax as well, I'd be very curious to see what you came up with. As far as the 28oz balancer, I'm sincerely hoping they got this right for my motor/charger combo because it is stupid heavy.

I'd be really interested in a set of headers if you made them, although I'd prefer to use a 3" exhaust system. I have a RideTech parallel 4 link w/ panhard for my ass end and the gas tank, carbon canister and etc are all being relocated and/or modified, so I suppose I'm one of the rare ones who isn't staying mostly stock underneath. If 2.5" is what you choose, I can deal though. I contacted TMH yeeeeeears ago about headers for a stroker and got the same answer you did. The biggest concern I have is making headers work with the kickouts on my Kevko oil pan (I have a bad feeling it's going to be mission impossible and I'll end up having to get a different style pan)

Please keep us updated, I'm looking forward to what you come up with!

 

[pufferfish]

i don't have any pics of my vac setup, but it doesn't matter because i cant post any, since i dropped my "elite" status. if i need to pull the intake off again, i will snap some pics and we can trade emails so i can send them to you.

the headers are coming together ever so slowly. i went gung ho to fab up the pass side on the bench with some drawings. looked killer, but didn't quite fit. i had all 4 tubes running between the block "tang" and the rear upper a-arm mount on the frame. it was narrower than i expected. guess measuring with a tape isn't the best way to do it? so, back to square 1. lucky for you, the exhaust supply house sent me a 3" collector, so i am giving the old college try. going to be tough, but i think its doable. i have been working on design 2 this morning and was just about to go out to the garage to start the fab.

i saw that TMH are back, only sold through the company that actually made them for Bob. looks like a lot of folks are lined up. i thought about being one of them and ending my suffering, but this is a mission. i know TMH's won't flow enough. i know they will cook my a/c box. i know they will cook plug wires. and, i know i can do better. its just going to be the biggest pain in my *%$ to get done, tested and get a fabricator lined up to make them.

 

[CDW6212R]

*Ahem* I believe I hold that record, dear Going on 7 years now and my 347 is slowly rusting itself to death on its stand




Puffer, would do you have any pictures of your vac line setup? I have a systemax as well, I'd be very curious to see what you came up with. As far as the 28oz balancer, I'm sincerely hoping they got this right for my motor/charger combo because it is stupid heavy.

I'd be really interested in a set of headers if you made them, although I'd prefer to use a 3" exhaust system. I have a RideTech parallel 4 link w/ panhard for my ass end and the gas tank, carbon canister and etc are all being relocated and/or modified, so I suppose I'm one of the rare ones who isn't staying mostly stock underneath. If 2.5" is what you choose, I can deal though. I contacted TMH yeeeeeears ago about headers for a stroker and got the same answer you did. The biggest concern I have is making headers work with the kickouts on my Kevko oil pan (I have a bad feeling it's going to be mission impossible and I'll end up having to get a different style pan)

Please keep us updated, I'm looking forward to what you come up with!

That picture worries me, the aluminum trigger wheel welded to the steel adapter etc. I think the last solution to a 28oz balancer was very good. If I had to do it again, I'd try to make one using an SEFI unit from an Australian maker that I believe was virtually like the stock one.

I would like to see a panhard bar under the Explorer, that's one of my to do items for the suspension.

Keep turning the crank on your 347 while it's stored, that's the only way the springs may survive. I do mine every month or so, which still may not be enough.

 

[CDW6212R]

i don't have any pics of my vac setup, but it doesn't matter because i cant post any, since i dropped my "elite" status. if i need to pull the intake off again, i will snap some pics and we can trade emails so i can send them to you.

the headers are coming together ever so slowly. i went gung ho to fab up the pass side on the bench with some drawings. looked killer, but didn't quite fit. i had all 4 tubes running between the block "tang" and the rear upper a-arm mount on the frame. it was narrower than i expected. guess measuring with a tape isn't the best way to do it? so, back to square 1. lucky for you, the exhaust supply house sent me a 3" collector, so i am giving the old college try. going to be tough, but i think its doable. i have been working on design 2 this morning and was just about to go out to the garage to start the fab.

i saw that TMH are back, only sold through the company that actually made them for Bob. looks like a lot of folks are lined up. i thought about being one of them and ending my suffering, but this is a mission. i know TMH's won't flow enough. i know they will cook my a/c box. i know they will cook plug wires. and, i know i can do better. its just going to be the biggest pain in my *%$ to get done, tested and get a fabricator lined up to make them.

I'm glad to know that you are still trying, I've been going back and forth on the possibility of boost. I don't want a centrifugal blower, and a remote turbo is unrealistic. The engine bay is so tight, I doubt the KB blower would fit as I'd want it, to the side with an IC above the intake. I'm wondering if there may be room for a turbo in the bay, that would be the simplest way to do it, next to the centrifugal blower(which is smaller).

For the 3" collector, I was thinking it would mesh with primaries normally(short of course), and be bent and malformed at the output to clear the frame etc. If a turbo could fit, then a smaller log type manifold would be easier to make.

 

[pufferfish]

i just went out and stuck a magnet on the trigger ring. its steel.

engine bay is defintitely too small for a turbo or 2 with gravity oil return. i don't even like thinking about forced induction on these trucks. no room for anything.

 

[CDW6212R]

That is good, I've thought they were aluminum all along.

Yes the space under hood is almost nothing. The only obvious space available is where the battery, air cleaner, and coolant/windshield bottles are. It's tough to remove or move things that are needed.

 

[pufferfish]

you just cant get to the battery area because the a/c and p.s. are in the way for piping from the headers.

 

[CDW6212R]

What if you remove the PS reservoir, and cut away the portion of the bracket that holds it? Then that space can be for piping to/from the driver's manifold. I wonder if there is space along the top of the radiator where the shroud is, with an electric fan mounted lower.

There is so much needed to fit a turbo in place, something would be left out. I agree unless something isn't being thought of, it isn't feasible. I'm sure that's where the remote turbo idea came from.

 

[pufferfish]

Might as well just pull the electric power steering from the new mustang and ditch the pump all together

Seriously, if you I was hell bent on the TT's I'd be looking at putting them outside the frame rails, just behind the wheel wells. Keeps them as close to the hot exhaust as possible and cuts down on piping.

 

[bronchole]

bronchole - are you guys using them to have the explorer serpentine system or EFI conversions? mostly 302 or 351?

Oops, Sorry, I didn;t see this until now!

The Bronco people typically use this damper when they transplant a 5.0 in to the Early Broncos. They do this if they are using something other than the Explorer accessory system. The damper will even work with V belt pullys. Its mainly popular because there is not allot of other options that will work in the Early Broncos when you change to the 5.0L ballance.

 

[pufferfish]

ok, i am finally making progress! v-2 of the passenger side header is mocked up. 1-5/8 primaries, 3" collector. 3 fingers of clearance between the header and the a/c box! about the same clearance between the nearest tube and the starter, which should help keep it from frying. all 4 spark plugs go in easy and the wires all have room so they won't melt and they wont need sleeves, since all the tubes angle down. and the best part...the header slips in with only removing the plugs and the fender liner! holy shnikeys! i may actually pull this thing off!

now for pics. as i stated previously, the site won't post my pics since dropping the elite status (i promise i will reinstate if this thing goes anywhere). i have all the pics up on image shack. lets see if i can get a link to work.

http://imageshack.us/g/1/10001589/

 

[pufferfish]

yay! it worked!

so, i have to say, the 1-3/4 primary, 3" collector headers i made for the 351 were WAY EASIER!! bringing the heads up with the taller block is way more beneficial to header fitment than the penalty of the block being wider.

 

[pufferfish]

2nd attempt...

 

[pufferfish]

 

[pufferfish]

EURIKA! sometimes my computer illiteracy is astounding!

 

[Turdle]

^^ looks real good. And that is what it will take if you guys even want to flirt with 400hp

The next level. I think there are people holding out, waiting for you to decide, whether or not.

 

[pufferfish]

by the way, i hate the cast tab on the bellhousing! -second to last picture- that ******* single handedly nearly made fitting the 3" collector almost unbearable to the point that it almost got a 2.5"! if it was accessable with a saw of some sort, the install instrcutions would say to cut it off first!

i am looking forward to the driver side. i actually expect LESS trouble. i would trade the dipstick and steering shaft obstructions any day for the crap in the way on the passenger side.

 

[pufferfish]

now that i feel good about what i feel was the harder header to make, i wanted to get some feedback on what it would take to get them manufactured. i don't yet know what it will cost me per set, but i do know they have a 25 pair minimum order for them to justify putting together setup jigs. 100% due up front. thats a lot of money. for me to do this, i would need deposits, so i have some cash and some guarantee that when i put the balance on my credit card, that i can pay it off when the product ships. i would offer it up on my website (wwwdotblowfishracingdotcom) as a pre-order purchase that would send an email to complete the purchase and pay the balance once the product is ready to ship.

i would guess 4-5 weeks to get them done.

does this seem reasonable? of course, as long as the price is competitive. i will know more about that once the DS header is mocked up and i ship them out to cali, where the manufacturer is...and no, its not Al's or whoever it is making the TMH's.

 

[bronchole]

If you need someone to put an eye on the process in CA, let me know. I live in Los Angeles and I am interested in these. I intend to eventually build a nice motor for my Monsterneer.