Dismiss Notice



Register Today It's free! This box and some ads will disappear once registered!

4.0 V6 chain rattle - Percentage

Discussion in 'Stock 2002 - 2005 Explorers' started by bogart219, December 2, 2017.

^^Searches ExplorerForum.com^^



Do Not Sell My Personal Information



  1. bogart219

    bogart219 New Member

    Joined:
    September 11, 2010
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    2004 ford ranger edge
    Hello. Just curious. I've been reading about the 4.0 chain rattle, broken guides, replacing tensioners, etc on this board for over a year. I had a slight rattle on start up that went away after a short time. I replaced the tensioners and this seemed to fix the problem. My question is does ALL 4.0 v6's have or is going to have this problem around the 130K to the 170k mile range? What percentage of explorer's with this engine with proper oil changes and maintenance not have this problem?
    There are million of these engines out there .Are they all doomed to this failure? Thanks!!
     
  2. Support EF

    Join the Elite Explorers for $20.

    Explorer Forum has probably saved you that much already, and will continue to save you money as you learn how to diagnose fix problems yourself and learn which modifications work without having to experiment on your own. Elite Explorer members see practically no advertisements, can add their own profile photo, upload photo attachments in all forums, and Media Gallery, create more private Conversations, and more. Join Today. Your support is greatly appreciated.



  3. Tech By Trade

    Tech By Trade Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2012
    Messages:
    2,542
    Likes Received:
    161
    Trophy Points:
    83
    City, State:
    Your mom's house
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    07 Sport Trac
    0.0%. the life expectancy of plastic in hot oil is not very good.
     
  4. nathan mayden

    nathan mayden Member

    Joined:
    January 22, 2017
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    18
    City, State:
    springdale, ar
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    1999 ford explorer sport
    Every 4.0 sohc ever built will suffer timing chain failure. It's not if, it's when.
     
  5. saewoody

    saewoody Active Member

    Joined:
    June 11, 2007
    Messages:
    123
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    City, State:
    CT
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    1997 XLT (RIP)
    2003 XLT
    I ran synthetic in my truck from 36,000 on and started getting the rattle at probably 180,000. I finally pulled the motor at 205,000 and did the job. The engine was incredibly clean inside. The ending was well maintained. There was no way the problem could have been avoided.
     
  6. bogart219

    bogart219 New Member

    Joined:
    September 11, 2010
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    2004 ford ranger edge
    Thanks for the replies fellows. Guess I will sell it .
     
  7. doug625

    doug625 Active Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2012
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Michigan
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    2002 XLS, 2007 XLT
    Mines rattled since 60,000 miles, I'm at 186,000 now, sounds like I'm one of the few lucky ones.
     
  8. bogart219

    bogart219 New Member

    Joined:
    September 11, 2010
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    2004 ford ranger edge
    Doug, interesting. That sort of was my question.There is got to be millions upon million of these engines out there. Are they all going to need timing chain work because of plastic cassettes?
    Doug, did you ever replace the tensioners to see if that would help?

    A few other questions if anyone can answer:
    1) From what I have read on here the plastic cassettes is the main problem. The material was updated a few times. The model years were 2000 to 2005. Is this correct?
    2) From 2006 on, is this 4.0 v6 still being used but with different cassettes or was a new redesigned 4.0 introduced?
    3) So this engine, 4.0 V6, from 2000 to 2005 is a problem in any Ford or Mercury vehicle during these years?
    4) Being they "upgraded" the plastic a few years would later models during this time frame have a better chance of surviving this calamity?

    Thanks for any info!
     
  9. Tech By Trade

    Tech By Trade Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2012
    Messages:
    2,542
    Likes Received:
    161
    Trophy Points:
    83
    City, State:
    Your mom's house
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    07 Sport Trac
    they changed the pin in the front one so you could split it to change it without pulling the head. I did the chains on my 07 at 190000 kms after the cassettes completely fell apart. I got lucky and the chains didn't go. I bought it at around 120000 if I remember right. Not sure of the previous owners maintenance but mine gets synthetic changes when the computer tells me it's due. The block is the same from 97 to 2010, the heads had some minor ergonomic changes. For some reason the mustang doesn't seem to be as hard on cassettes.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. doug625

    doug625 Active Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2012
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Michigan
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    2002 XLS, 2007 XLT
    I don't know how each year is different, I'm sure it's probably discussed somewhere on this site. Everything is all original on mine, I've had the rattle at start up and during acceleration around 2300-2800 rpms for the last 125,000 miles, it hasn't got any worse that entire time, but I've always felt I was driving on borrowed time since hearing all these stories. Mines an early 2002 with a March 2001 build date.
     
  11. bogart219

    bogart219 New Member

    Joined:
    September 11, 2010
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    2004 ford ranger edge
    I've had a slight rattle at start up. I changed the tensioners and that seemed to take care of it.(132K miles) You have to assume that your cassettes are not busted as it drives fine any other time. Maybe your tensioners just need changed? I don't know.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. scott9050

    scott9050 New Member

    Joined:
    January 23, 2016
    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    City, State:
    Virginia
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    1999
    2002 with 106K, no rattle yet. Since it is being retired to sporadic hauling duty around town it may be a while.
     
  13. Tech By Trade

    Tech By Trade Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2012
    Messages:
    2,542
    Likes Received:
    161
    Trophy Points:
    83
    City, State:
    Your mom's house
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    07 Sport Trac
    I did read a theory that the 2000 rpm rattle may not be the cassettes, but the spring tensioners on the primary jack shaft chain, or the balance shaft, in which case shouldn't be catastrophic, as the traction side already runs on large thick plastic runner.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  14. imp

    imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    November 12, 2009
    Messages:
    4,398
    Likes Received:
    455
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Location:
    West-Central AZ along the Colorado River
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    59 Ranchero F250 D'Line
    The "gist" of all of this is that as the multitude of connecting, moving, power-transmitting links in a chain each wear a little bit, the total change in apparent chain length, commonly called "stretch", becomes enough to alter valve timing events. In an effort to overcome this, the designers added "tensioners" to take up chain slack due to wear. That idea works.

    The wearing away of chain guides, supports, etc., is another matter altogether. Plastic is cheap for OEM. Metal to metal needs constant lubrication. So, if every chain working between two sprockets like the old familiar "timing chain" on V-8s, were conceptually used on OHC engines, without concern for "timing change" due to chain "stretch", we'd be home free.

    We live with it, and work with it, and cuss and despise some of it. imp
     
  15. imp

    imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    November 12, 2009
    Messages:
    4,398
    Likes Received:
    455
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Location:
    West-Central AZ along the Colorado River
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    59 Ranchero F250 D'Line
    The "gist" of all of this is that as the multitude of connecting, moving, power-transmitting links in a chain each wear a little bit, the total change in apparent chain length, commonly called "stretch", becomes enough to alter valve timing events. In an effort to overcome this, the designers added "tensioners" to take up chain slack due to wear. That idea works.

    The wearing away of chain guides, supports, etc., is another matter altogether. Plastic is cheap for OEM. Metal to metal needs constant lubrication. So, if every chain working between two sprockets like the old familiar "timing chain" on V-8s, were conceptually used on OHC engines, without concern for "timing change" due to chain "stretch", we'd be home free.

    We live with it, and work with it, and cuss and despise some of it. imp
     
  16. chefduane

    chefduane Texas Elite Explorer Elite Explorer

    Joined:
    January 22, 2013
    Messages:
    1,346
    Likes Received:
    72
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Location:
    TEXAS!
    City, State:
    Plano, TX.
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    None: SOLD 9/16
    I got 213k out of mine before I sold it with the rattle. With some more TLC it probably would have gone 250k but the person I sold it to abused it and it let go finally at about 230k.
     
  17. bogart219

    bogart219 New Member

    Joined:
    September 11, 2010
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    2004 ford ranger edge

    Well said Imp. Some more questions. Wouldn't you think that the engineers who designed this engine were aware of all that? Or was this just a case of "planned obsolescence"?

    Does/did no other car maker besides Ford use this design (chain guides)? If they did wouldn't they have the same issues?

    This 4.0 is a interference correct? , where if the chain broke it could destroy the engine. Why design something like this? "planned obsolescence" again?

    Someone on here said a while back that the plastic material used for the guides were improved 2 or 3 times during 2000 and 2005 I believe. This is what I was referring to as far s percentage.
    Each improvement should of increase the percentage that these guides would last longer. I would think. Hell I don't know.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Tech By Trade

    Tech By Trade Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2012
    Messages:
    2,542
    Likes Received:
    161
    Trophy Points:
    83
    City, State:
    Your mom's house
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    07 Sport Trac
    I think in the end, it all comes down to the almighty dollar. You have to remember that they basically are using a 50 year old engine design. The block and heads in the SOHC are almost identical to the OHV that has been around since the 60's. All they did was pull out the camshaft and fill in the rod holes. They threw a jackshaft in the place of the cam, added a space to run the chains up to the front and back of the heads and threw in an overhead cam. The overhead cam got rid of the valve float over 5000 rpm so they adjusted the cams to create more power at higher rpm. A look at the power curves of the 2 versions of the engine will show this. In order to have the gears at the size they are, a longer chain had to be used, and therefore constant tension was required. With all those extra moving parts something has to give, and it was the number of links in the chains. Im sure the reason for using plastic came down to money, and maybe a small amount to engine noise, and planned obsolescence. Im sure the bean counters had the cost of failure calculated to the last dime. The upgrade to the front guide allowing it to be removed without pulling the head did nothing but put more money in the bank in warranty repairs. I doubt longevity came into the puzzle at all. In the end I'm sure they made a fortune dragging this technology out as long as they did. I mean, they are the only domestic that didn't have to take a bailout in 07, so they must be doing something right. And you don't get rich writing a lot of cheques.
     
    Last edited: December 16, 2017
    • Like Like x 1
  19. swshawaii

    swshawaii Elite Explorer

    Joined:
    April 3, 2009
    Messages:
    9,449
    Likes Received:
    377
    Trophy Points:
    93
    City, State:
    Kailua-Oahu, Hawaii
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    '05 Sport Trac XLS (RWD)
  20. bogart219

    bogart219 New Member

    Joined:
    September 11, 2010
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    2004 ford ranger edge
  21. Sweersa

    Sweersa Active Member

    Joined:
    September 1, 2014
    Messages:
    204
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    28
    City, State:
    Marne, MI
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    2005 Ford Explorer XLT
    I noticed my timing chain rattle a few years ago, not certain on mileage. I have 222,000+ miles now, and the chains are loud but no kaboom yet! I change oil every 3,000 miles or less and add STP engine treatment, which I believe has helped postpone the inevitable.

    2005 4.0 SOHC Flex
     
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page







We Support Our Troops!