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5.0L Swap in Sport Trac Questions

Discussion in '2001-2005 Explorer Sport Trac' started by CodiBroney, June 3, 2019.

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  1. CodiBroney

    CodiBroney New Member

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    Does anyone know if i can get my keys and PATS system in my trac working if i take it to a ford dealer? or do i either need to delete or swap the PATS from the donor?

    05 Sport Trac
    00 Explorer 5.0L
     
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  3. Mbrooks420

    Mbrooks420 High Voltage. Elite Explorer EF Vendor

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    Pretty sure those trucks have 2 entirely different versions of PATS. You could have it deleted with a tune, or swap in all of the 5.0 components and make some wiring reconfiguration.

    I highly doubt a Ford dealer would Harlow you, especially since you are putting an older motor in a newer vehicle (big emissions no no)

    I’m sure someone with better info will chime in .
     
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  4. CDW6212R

    CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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    Yes, depending on where you are with emissions laws, they may not pass it with an older engine in it.

    Past that though, the computer will have to be the 302 PCM, thus only that 99-01 PATS module can work with it. So you'll have to decide if it's feasible to make the wiring changes to install the older PATS, or else delete it in a tune, which means you can leave out the older PATS module and its wiring.

    Aftermarket alarms are very good and come with many more features than OEM. I'd go that route instead of dealing with swapping PATS.
     
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  5. koda2000

    koda2000 Explorer Addict

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    I'd have PATS turned off with a tune rather than going through the trouble and expense of trying to get it to work.
     
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  6. CodiBroney

    CodiBroney New Member

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    Ok thanks for all the replies. does anyone know of which tuner is the best to go for cost and effectiveness?
     
  7. COtoMI

    COtoMI New Member

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    I just finished this same swap ('05 trac with '99 5.0) a couple months back (write up to come). Swapping pats was actually one of the smaller headaches. You need the pats module and transceiver from the 5.0, swap the transceivers, mount the pats module (I mounted mine in the same location as RangerSVT), then just splice in the pats modules SCP + and - to the OBDII SCP + and - under the dash and supply power and ground. From there, you will need a dealer level scan tool (I used a snap on model). You need to clear the stored pats keys and clear the ECU memory and then program in the correct pats style key cut to your cylinder. It took a little fooling around with the scan tool to get everything to talk correctly, but mine now works without any issues. Also if you have the 5.0 key and cylinder, you can swap out the cylinders to get it running without any programming.
     
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  8. 410Fortune

    410Fortune River season Staff Member Moderator

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    A COtoMI just said:

    If you have the entire donor truck with the pats module, pcm, and pats key, then you just swap it all into the 05.
    There are 7 wires, everyone is always afraid of the PATS in these conversions. It is not that bad to wire the whole pats system into your patient
    PATS wiring:
    SCP bus + (avail at OBD2 port)
    SCP bus - (avail at OBD2 port)
    ground
    constant power (avail behind dash/stereo bezel)
    ACC or switched power (behind dash/stereo bezel)
    Sometimes a second switched power wire (same)
    theft light (avail at instrument cluster)
    and the wires that go from pats module (behind pass airbag) to the ignition switch halo (steering column) are plug and play

    The fun part is finishing the conversion factory style, and swapping over the sport track drivers/pass door lock cylinders and tailgate lock to match the new ignition key.

    Now that is completing your conversion in style.
    (IE Don't crush the donor until you pull of its locks)
     
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  9. fastpakr

    fastpakr Elite Explorer

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    You can also skip the trip to the dealer for programming your keys. Forscan plus a decent Bluetooth OBD2 module and a laptop will get you going on that end for about $20-30.
     
  10. mic98xlt

    mic98xlt Elite Explorer

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    Just curious since I am thinking about doing the same thing with a '01 5.0 V8 Mounty into a '05 Sport Trac. How do you handle the speedometer cluster wiring in the '04 and '05 which have a digital odometer display which depends on the '04 and '05 pcm's for display info. It's completely different from the earlier non digital speedometer clusters of '96-'01 that came in the v8's. The only thing I can think of is to swap the speedometer cluster in from the earlier '96 -'01 along with the wiring. @COtoMI and @410Fortune how did you Guys handle this please. Thanks! Great info here regarding the PATS already provided by you two!!
     
  11. CDW6212R

    CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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    The VSS signal goes from the ABS to the speedometer in the 2nd gens, and the 05 Sport Trac is the similar platform. The signal your speedometer needs should be the same, but where to get it from in the 01 system, I'm not sure about that.

    Your 2005 is likely receiving the VSS directly from the PCM(from the transmission or the rear ABS), and the 2001 it comes from the ABS, to both the PCM and the speedometer.
     
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  12. COtoMI

    COtoMI New Member

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    The speedometer was the larger headache. The '04 and '05 tracs use SCP multiplexing to send the tach, speed and I think temperature outputs to the hybrid cluster. I tried, swapping the abs modules, wiring in the G-force sensor and wiring the speed output from the abs to the PCM hoping the PCM and cluster would communicate the speed and tach info through the SCP, but that did not work. With that config, I had no speed, no tach and no odometer, but the engine temp worked which I thought was strange. The PCM was also receiving the speed and tach, as it read correctly on the scan tool through the OBD II, but nothing on the cluster. This setup also threw abs codes which I couldn't get rid of. My theory is that the speed and tach signals go through some further conditioning at the PCM so as to be output on the cluster or that the cluster and PCM have to match in order to it to work as a way to safeguard against odometer tampering, but that's only a guess. Another possibility which I did not try was to dig into the cluster programming to see if it could be reset or reprogrammed to make it work.

    My solution was to keep the '05 abs unit as is, use a Dakota Digital SGI-5E for the speed signal conversion, swap out the clusters and wire in the '99 GEM module (I actually used a '03 trac cluster i got off ebay as I liked the look better). This was a pain and I lost auto headlights along with a couple other bugs I'm still trying to work out, but I got the tach and speed working, which was worth it. The Dakota Digital gets it's input from the + VSS signal coming into the ABS and the output gets spliced into the VSS signal going to the PCM and other components. The hardest part was wiring the GEM as the hybrid '05 cluster does a lot of what the GEM does on the '99-'01 explorers and the wiring is very different. I have all the pin outs mapped in excel that I will clean up and post at some point.

    As of now, I don't have auto headlights, the seat belt indicator works only for the first few minutes and there is no warning chime, I have an airbag code for a indicator circuit short to ground and no cruise. I think a lot of these would be fixed if I used a '02-'03 trac GEM instead of the '99 GEM as the wiring for these functions are far more similar between the '02-'03 and '05 tracs as opposed to the '99 explorer and the '05 trac. The wiring diagrams for each truck will be your best friend.
     
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  13. mic98xlt

    mic98xlt Elite Explorer

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    CotoMi thanks for the new info. Wow, I see now it took a lot of effort to bypass the late model hybrid speedometer compatibility problems. That has been my biggest anxiety for doing the V8 swap into my '05. I really am not that crazy for the looks of newer digital speedometers ('04 and '05) and sort of like the earlier years Sport Trac speedo appearance better.

    Like you mentioned the auto headlights are wired different ('04 and '05) and part of the headlight switch itself instead of being on the mirror like the First Gen. Explorers and '01-'03 Sport Trac's. The Later Sport Trac ('04-'05) have a different drivers airbag (second generation) which might contribute to the airbag code. The difference in generations (Gem's and Pcm's) probably produces little quirks that can be a real head scratchier trying to figure out.

    I have thought about taking the complete wiring harness out the '01 and putting it completely into the '05 Sport Trac to settle any major wiring compatibility problems. The only thing I think that would be needed that the '01 wiring doesn't have is the rear window vent controls. That wiring could be done I am sure with a little effort.

    I still would love to see more info and pictures about your conversion CotoMi and your spread sheets. Nice job!
     
  14. CDW6212R

    CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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    Great information, thanks for the description.

    The auto headlights I might want to swap mirrors to do that, but it should be workable in the headlight switch you have. By itself it is a simple circuit, but buried in another module etc, is worse.

    Do post any info about the 99 GEM module, I can use that soon. I plan to wire in a 99-01 GEM for my 92 Lincoln, I want the power shut off for leaving lights on etc, and I'm sure more features will be appreciated as I dig into it.
     
  15. 4pullingGM

    4pullingGM Active Member

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    Definitely some good information, I'm doing my research about swapping a 5.0 into my 04 Trac. I always try to keep things as original as possible with stuff like this, thanks for sharing.
     
  16. mic98xlt

    mic98xlt Elite Explorer

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    The other thing I thought about doing a late model 5.0 V8 swap into a '04-'05 Sport Trac is the fuel delivery system is different form the earlier '96-'01 Explorers. I believe the '04 and '05 have additional electronics in the rear by the fuel delivery system that the earlier Sport Trac doesn't have. This too could be bypassed, I imagine by swapping the components in the fuel tank such as the fuel pump connections and eliminating the additional wiring. There are little but important changes in the wiring that cause minor headaches such as little things not working or causing a code or fault light. I am still seriously contemplating the swap and like 4pullingGM stated:
     
  17. COtoMI

    COtoMI New Member

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    You are correct, there are some changes that had to be made to get the fuel delivery to work. The '04-'05 have a Fuel Pump Driver Module (FPDM) which needs to be bypassed as the '99 -'01 5.0's did not have this. The FPDM has 6 wires coming in. The changes at the FPDM are:

    Pin 1: Fuel Pump, Monitor (Circuit 238 - DG/YE) cut and taped off
    Pin 2: Power Out, Fuel Pump - (Circuit 366 - RD/BK) jumped to Pin 3 Ground (Circuit 57 - BK)
    Pin 3: Ground (Circuit 57 - BK) jumped to Power Out, Fuel Pump - (Circuit 366 - RD/BK)
    Pin 4: Power Out, Fuel Pump + (circuit 787 - PK/BK) jumped to Pin 5 Power In (circuit 866 - WH)
    Pin 5: Power In (circuit 866 - WH) jumped to Pin 4 Power Out, Fuel Pump + (circuit 787 - PK/BK)
    Pin 6: Fuel Pump, Control (Circuit 926 - LB/OG) cut and taped off

    Pins 1 and 6 are addressed at the 5.0 42 pin engine harness and battery junction box. The Fuel Pump, Monitor (Circuit 238 - DG/YE) from the 42 pin harness gets spliced into the Fuel Pump Relay Power Output (Circuit 27 - OG/LG) in the battery junction box going to the inertia fuel shutoff. This circuit allows the PCM to monitor fuel pump voltage. The Fuel Pump, Control (Circuit 926 - LB/OG) from the 42 pin harness gets wired to the Fuel Pump Relay Ground (Circuit 57 - BK) in the battery junction box such that it is no longer grounded and routed to the PCM instead. This circuit is important and allows the fuel pump to prime when key is in ACC position and continuously run when engine is running. Without doing this, the fuel pump will either run constantly or not at all.

    I left the FPDM connected because it was making the fuel gauge go wonky when I removed it, but this was with the original cluster, so it may be fine to remove the FPDM after the cluster swap. This also gives you the two unused pin 1 and pin 6 wires routed from the fuel tank to the engine bay if you ever need to something wired between the those two locations.
     
    Last edited: June 13, 2019
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  18. mic98xlt

    mic98xlt Elite Explorer

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    You came again with great info @COtoMI about the fuel delivery and I thank you again! This tread is very valuable for me and others here for the late '04 and '05 V8 conversion. The two extra wires to the fuel pump could be used for a rear camera trigger wire for the rear camera to come on from the rear tail light.

    The airbag codes once again could be coming from both the airbags (passenger and drivers) being part of a second generation wiring change or possible different air bag module difference. They all look very similar but have small wiring changes.
     
  19. COtoMI

    COtoMI New Member

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    No problem @mic98xlt, and I will post a whole write up soon, just have to find the time to clean all my spreadsheets up. For the airbag, I think it has to do with the supplementary restraint system. In the tracs, both the driver and passenger seat belt restraint signals get sent into the SRS and are then output through a single wire (circuit 1083) to the cluster or GEM. In the '04 -'05, circuit 1083 is output to the cluster which controls the seat belt indicator and chime. In the '02 -'03, circuit 1083 is output to the GEM which controls the chime and is then outputted to the cluster to control the indicator. In the '99-'01 explorers, the drivers side seat belt signal is fed into the GEM and then one output goes to the message center to supply the chime and second output to the cluster to control the seat belt indicator (not using the SRS at all). I'm thinking these differences are causing my seat belt indicator issues and the air bag light issues. This is also why I think switching to the'02-'03 GEM would solve this (GEM and SRS would be compatible). But honestly, it may be a while before I start ripping apart the wiring again.
     
    Last edited: June 13, 2019
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  20. CodiBroney

    CodiBroney New Member

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    Does anyone know if it is possible to just take all the wiring from the 00 5.0 and put it into the 05 trac?
     
  21. CDW6212R

    CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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    Most likely yes, but with slight circuit differences, like your rear window control. Emissions laws would only care about the engine, so the rest is unlimited except by you.

    I'm familiar with the harnesses of most of the 1st/2nd gen trucks, where they go together and through what body holes. I swapped my old 93 body in place of my 99's main cabin, thus I swapped the entire set of harnesses. I had to use a 95-97 hatch harness to make the rear wiper work best, and a few other items.

    In your truck the dash/cluster is tied into that newer GEM module and some items that are moved around versus the older 2nd gen's, like the PATS and keyless entry modules. If you moved the wiring besides the engine harness, it may have to be everything, the under hood, dash, and body harnesses. The door wiring are fairly close between all versions, the frame wiring is tied closely with the fuel system type/requirements. The 98-01's use the ABS module with the PCM for the VSS signal, as well as a G-force sensor on the frame(part of the frame harness).

    So pick your must have features, and see what will be the easiest way, to get them in the truck.
     
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